Oil Preference?

[PowerJrod]

The filter is rated for 15k, normal or severe service. I'd be more worried about other oils having enough additive left to make it to 15k than a modern engine filling up a filter under "normal" circumstances anyway.
Do the other filters you mentioned even specify a normal or severe service interval?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Yes... Back of the box, even Fram tough guard and ultra filters had it listed. If your filter is good for 15k miles of severe operation, would it not make sense to say it should be ok for 20k miles of regular/easy operation..? Just a thought. But here's the other thing...if you go to any one of these filter companies website; it'll say "10k, 15k, 20k miles"...but in fine print below they will ALWAYS say "follow your recommended maintenance log in your owners manual".
Which says replace oil filter every oil change that doesn't exceed 10k miles of regular driving.

 

[PowerJrod]

Hence “side note”. Also, we’re talking about the longevity of automotive machine lubricants...it’s not that much of a stretch!

I guess it does kind of prove my point about how differences in driving effect the oil change intervals, and that 10k miles of towing isn't the same as 10k miles of easy highway commuting.

 

[jdefoe0424]

Yes... Back of the box, even Fram tough guard and ultra filters had it listed. If your filter is good for 15k miles of severe operation, would it not make sense to say it should be ok for 20k miles of regular/easy operation..? Just a thought. But here's the other thing...if you go to any one of these filter companies website; it'll say "10k, 15k, 20k miles"...but in fine print below they will ALWAYS say "follow your recommended maintenance log in your owners manual".
Which says replace oil filter every oil change that doesn't exceed 10k miles of regular driving.

I can honestly say that I have not looked at fram filters in many years so I wouldn't know what they say on the box. Anything I have gets wix, napa gold, Mann and my ram will be using AMSOIL going forward.

Towing or other severe service results in many different conditions that the parts and oil must endure. Whether it's more particles, higher temperatures, higher pressures etc. But the materials still have a finite life, number of cycles(heat or pressure) etc. until they reach some point where the chance of failure is too high to justify continued use. There's always a design point and factor of safety built in.

And yes, different driving cycles affect the critical elements of the oil differently. However not all oils are designed the same, have the same base stock or the same additive package. Both of which have a huge effect on how the oil will stand up to the stress that an engine is subjected to.

AMSOIL stands behind their products and you can look up the guarantee if you wish.

I believe that there are generally two types of business models, sure there are some in between but I'm going for extremes here. The first is inexpensive and good enough. At this level things are made to a price point, the base stock is a blend and not highly refined, the additive package may be a jack of all trades but master of none type. Because well, better base stocks and better additives cost more and they can get to the minimum of standards with their cheaper formula.
The other is expensive and very good. At this level cost is not a barrier(within reason), vastly superior 100% fully synthetic base stocks are used and superior additive packages are used. The people who purchase this type of product see the value in it and understand that their vehicle will be better protected in the long run and have a longer service life. Vehicles aren't getting any cheaper, ya know!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[PowerJrod]

I can honestly say that I have not looked at fram filters in many years so I wouldn't know what they say on the box. Anything I have gets wix, napa gold, Mann and my ram will be using AMSOIL going forward.

Towing or other severe service results in many different conditions that the parts and oil must endure. Whether it's more particles, higher temperatures, higher pressures etc. But the materials still have a finite life, number of cycles(heat or pressure) etc. until they reach some point where the chance of failure is too high to justify continued use. There's always a design point and factor of safety built in.

And yes, different driving cycles affect the critical elements of the oil differently. However not all oils are designed the same, have the same base stock or the same additive package. Both of which have a huge effect on how the oil will stand up to the stress that an engine is subjected to.

AMSOIL stands behind their products and you can look up the guarantee if you wish.

I believe that there are generally two types of business models, sure there are some in between but I'm going for extremes here. The first is inexpensive and good enough. At this level things are made to a price point, the base stock is a blend and not highly refined, the additive package may be a jack of all trades but master of none type. Because well, better base stocks and better additives cost more and they can get to the minimum of standards with their cheaper formula.
The other is expensive and very good. At this level cost is not a barrier(within reason), vastly superior 100% fully synthetic base stocks are used and superior additive packages are used. The people who purchase this type of product see the value in it and understand that their vehicle will be better protected in the long run and have a longer service life. Vehicles aren't getting any cheaper, ya know!

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Exactly...they're so expensive, so why risk going 15-20k miles on the same oil and filter when you can take that step to better protect that expensive investment by just doing one more oil change per year. I think it comes down to either laziness or just being cheap in the long run. Although I've never used the fancy Wix, Napa or AMSoil...even if I did I still wouldn't risk going 15k miles on a single oil change with it. Just not worth the risk, even if I knew for sure my engine wouldnt seize up, it comes back to those fine metal grits circulating in the engine when the filter gets to capacity. The only way to truly make a filter last that long is to double the size of the filter. even with the newest updated modern filter, that tech can't compensate for the lack of size and capacity being held.

 

[SD Rebel]

Exactly...they're so expensive, so why risk going 15-20k miles on the same oil and filter when you can take that step to better protect that expensive investment by just doing one more oil change per year. I think it comes down to either laziness or just being cheap in the long run. Although I've never used the fancy Wix, Napa or AMSoil...even if I did I still wouldn't risk going 15k miles on a single oil change with it. Just not worth the risk, even if I knew for sure my engine wouldnt seize up, it comes back to those fine metal grits circulating in the engine when the filter gets to capacity. The only way to truly make a filter last that long is to double the size of the filter. even with the newest updated modern filter, that tech can't compensate for the lack of size and capacity being held.

I think it's also the principle for some folks. Like hypermilers who will sit behind a truck to eek out more mpg but they get a busted window from a rock thrown up by the semi and $500 bill to replace it, completely voiding any savings.

I think it's not about the cost, but that they can technically do it, because waiting a few extra thousand miles will literally only save them $10-20 or so of delayed expense, while possibly greatly increasing their potential cost for either mechanical or more likely warranty voiding. Again, you cannot go beyond 12 months or 10,000 miles between oil changes on RAM trucks and keep your warranty.

 

[jdefoe0424]

For me it's not laziness, it's the desire to change my oil less often while using a superior product.
Look at the photo, using OE and paying the preferred customer price you will save money over PUP. That's why they introduced the OE line, for the people desiring to stick to their OE interval while using a lower cost oil that's not lower quality.

Running XL only to 10k nets more savings while using the same filter. Going to 12k yields more savings in terms of oil but there is potentially added cost of a more expensive filter depending on what you're using currently.

Beyond this, it's entirely possible to run the oil longer using oil analysis if you change the filter halfway through and top off as that introduces 1/2-1qt of fresh additive to the crankcase.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[PowerJrod]

For me it's not laziness, it's the desire to change my oil less often while using a superior product.
Look at the photo, using OE and paying the preferred customer price you will save money over PUP. That's why they introduced the OE line, for the people desiring to stick to their OE interval while using a lower cost oil that's not lower quality.

Running XL only to 10k nets more savings while using the same filter. Going to 12k yields more savings in terms of oil but there is potentially added cost of a more expensive filter depending on what you're using currently.

Beyond this, it's entirely possible to run the oil longer using oil analysis if you change the filter halfway through and top off as that introduces 1/2-1qt of fresh additive to the crankcase.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Superior product? Lol.
They're pretty much all the same in the long run. All that risk for saving $10? $20 at the most...?

 

[jdefoe0424]

Superior product? Lol.
They're pretty much all the same in the long run. All that risk for saving $10? $20 at the most...?

Watch the testing this guy has done.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I will be taking a few oil samples over my next changes and I'll be sure to put a summary together. If I get some time this week I will find the analysis from my BMW to post.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[securityguy]

You're entitled to your opinion.

I will be taking a few oil samples over my next changes and I'll be sure to put a summary together. If I get some time this week I will find the analysis from my BMW to post.

I just watched the video and my conclusion is this, for the extreme increase in cost for Amsoil, Pennzoil Platinum would be my choice and I have sacrificed nothing in the process.

 

[jdefoe0424]

I just watched the video and my conclusion is this, for the extreme increase in cost for Amsoil, Pennzoil Platinum would be my choice and I have sacrificed nothing in the process.

Yes, he tested signature series which is rated for a 25k mile oil change interval; hence the super high tbn. However OE and XL have the same advantages and are intended for shorter intervals(mfgr spec and 12k respectively).
Also, don't look at the cost based on amazon. It's against dealer policy to sell on places like amazon, ebay etc. Click the link in my signature to see what actual retail and PC price would be.

 

[securityguy]

Yes, he tested signature series which is rated for a 25k mile oil change interval; hence the super high tbn. However OE and XL have the same advantages and are intended for shorter intervals(mfgr spec and 12k respectively).
Also, don't look at the cost based on amazon. It's against dealer policy to sell on places like amazon, ebay etc. Click the link in my signature to see what actual retail and PC price would be.

I used to be an Amsoil guy 20 years ago. Still can’t beat $22 for a 5 qt jug of PP at Walmart and I lose nothing over Amsoil.

 

[SpeedyV]

I used to be an Amsoil guy 20 years ago. Still can’t beat $22 for a 5 qt jug of PP at Walmart and I lose nothing over Amsoil.

And $25 for PUP jugs shipped to my door via Amazon.

 

[PowerJrod]

I used to be an Amsoil guy 20 years ago. Still can’t beat $22 for a 5 qt jug of PP at Walmart and I lose nothing over Amsoil.

Agreed, it's crazy to believe that paying all that extra money using an oil/filter for long enough to void your warranty being worth it at all. Anything over $25 for 5 quarts is an absolute waste. So is going over 7500 miles on a single oil change. This is why I buy a vehicle as new as possible. I'd hate to buy a used one and end up with his lmao!

 

[Florida Ranger]

Dealer gave me 10 oil & filter changes when I bought my 2020 Laramie 5.7 . He said that way I did not have to worry about changing my own oil. I do not know what type of oil , dealers use but I am sure it meets warranty specs. I am sure when I go in they will try to sell me something. I had to bargain with him to get the oil changes, he gives them to me or I walk out.

 

[securityguy]

I have a free fully synthetic oil change and tire rotate package for 4 years...includes Pennzoil Platinum oil.

 

[jdefoe0424]

20 years ago AMSOIL was by a large margin the best and there was nothing that compared.
I'm glad you all have faith that the lackey at the dealer is putting in the right stuff and not stripping your drain plug, running it in and out with an impact, over torquing lug nuts, etc...my vehicles are well cared for in both maintenance and how they are driven.

I am an engineer for my day job. Worked with large diesel engines in the past and now with 2 stroke lawn and garden stuff.

I can see that this conversation is heading downhill. If anyone would like to have a constructive conversation then I'm game for that.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[securityguy]

20 years ago AMSOIL was by a large margin the best and there was nothing that compared.
I'm glad you all have faith that the lackey at the dealer is putting in the right stuff and not stripping your drain plug, running it in and out with an impact, over torquing lug nuts, etc...my vehicles are well cared for in both maintenance and how they are driven.

I am an engineer for my day job. Worked with large diesel engines in the past and now with 2 stroke lawn and garden stuff.

I can see that this conversation is heading downhill. If anyone would like to have a constructive conversation then I'm game for that.

I am an anal engineer as well and watch the "lackey" during each and every oil change. No impact wrenches on the drain plug and they do use a torque wrench to tighten the plug to the proper specs. I also watch closely to confirm that PP 5W20 is going in and not over filled. Yes, there are a ton of crappy techs, but not all are crappy techs!

 

[HSKR R/T]

It's pointless to argue "best oil" with an Amsoil salesman. They have a vested interest is promoting Amsoil. Now I'm not saying it's not good oil, just it's not that much better than most modern oils to make it worth the price difference.

 

[SpeedyV]

I have a free fully synthetic oil change and tire rotate package for 4 years...includes Pennzoil Platinum oil.

So did I (for 2 years). I changed my own anyway

 

[securityguy]

So did I (for 2 years). I changed my own anyway

I would do the same Speedy...but, they let me stand right there and watch every step so I have total confidence to what's being done and to my satisfaction.