Oil Preference?

[PowerJrod]

Wait...doesn't there have to be a crap ton of elements in the oil for it to turn solid black anyway..?

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Wait...doesn't there have to be a crap ton of elements in the oil for it to turn solid black anyway..?

I’m talking about the elements that make up the composition of the oil.

 

[Kooch80]

You guys bashing people who use Amsoil and extended drain intervals are hilarious

 

[SpeedyV]

Sure but we're not talking about Audi and BMW. And as said before...most of these engineers could care less about engine longevity anyway. That's why after 60k miles they and the manufacturers want you to buy a new one. Sorry...but what they "recommend" is not always having consumers best interest at heart. I'm sure doing 10k mile oil changes will get you to 60k miles...but after that good luck.

Well...I’ll continue to follow Ram’s owner’s manual (although I’m splurging on PUP and a M1 EP filter), and then if my truck EVER has an oil-related failure, my Mopar Lifetime MaxCare warranty will be on the hook.

My bet is that the truck is sold or (heaven forbid) wrecked long before that happens. And that’s with me planning to keep the truck for 10+ years.

 

[SpeedyV]

Wait...doesn't there have to be a crap ton of elements in the oil for it to turn solid black anyway..?

Solid black, maybe. Some oils darken very quickly from heat, even though they’re still clean and fresh.

Now...if it’s black and gritty, you’ve got problems!

 

[PowerJrod]

Solid black, maybe. Some oils darken very quickly from heat, even though they’re still clean and fresh.

Now...if it’s black and gritty, you’ve got problems!

Yea darkened tint is one thing...mine was pure black when I drained at 6k miles. I'm just waiting to see how my Mobil 1 holds up. I think for a more accurate comparison I'll put Mobil 1 in again for the summer and see how it looks and how much I end up missing.

 

[PowerJrod]

I’m talking about the elements that make up the composition of the oil.

Oh ok...so not whats been added for metal fragments to the oil from the engine..?

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Oh ok...so not whats been added for metal fragments to the oil from the engine..?

I’m talking about everything the labs equipment is capable of detecting in an oil sample; the additives used to formulate the oil, “wear” metals, contaminates such as fuel, water, antifreeze and insolubles(dirt), and maybe the most important factor in evaluating an oils remaining life,the TBN and TAN. There’s just too much going on in the oil to look at it and decide it’s no longer serviceable because it’s black.

 

[PowerJrod]

I’m talking about everything the labs equipment is capable of detecting in an oil sample; the additives used to formulate the oil, “wear” metals, contaminates such as fuel, water, antifreeze and insolubles(dirt), and maybe the most important factor in evaluating an oils remaining life,the TBN and TAN. There’s just too much going on in the oil to look at it and decide it’s no longer serviceable because it’s black.

Idk, maybe it's just my experience over 15 years that tells me if oil is pure black...it's time to change it. I mean...who realistically has time, patience and energy to collect a oil sample, package it up, send it in and wait for results when you can just change it and be done..?

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Idk, maybe it's just my experience over 15 years that tells me if oil is pure black...it's time to change it. I mean...who realistically has time, patience and energy to collect a oil sample, package it up, send it in and wait for results when you can just change it and be done..?

I agree it’s a little time consuming, but a lot of folks send samples to Blackstone, Polaris, NAPA and other labs every year for UOA’s and in some cases they catch problems such as fuel dilution or antifreeze in the oil. Your oil was probably just as black at 3K as it was at 6K so if color is what you’re basing it on then 6K is probably way too long an OCI.

 

[PowerJrod]

I agree it’s a little time consuming, but a lot of folks send samples to Blackstone, Polaris, NAPA and other labs every year for UOA’s and in some cases they catch problems such as fuel dilution or antifreeze in the oil. Your oil was probably just as black at 3K as it was at 6K so if color is what you’re basing it on then 6K is probably way too long an OCI.

No, I check my oil every 1k miles ever since I started driving in the crazy Vegas heat. At 3k miles it was darker than fresh but not even close to black. I do see your point when sending a sample in to check for problems. It's like having a blood test lol.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

It proves that maintenance IS covered by the Magnusson-Moss Act.
Extended drain intervals are not for people who don't understand maintenance, don't know how to look after their equipment or don't want to put the effort into understanding what makes oils last.

Also, your experience with PP Synthetic does not mean that ALL oils will perform like that in the Vegas heat. For 5W-20 I have found NOACK volatility test data of 8.6% for PP and PUP is 10.5%.
OE and XL are 8.6% and 8.4% respectively while Signature Series is 5.8%!
Based on your experience I would expect OE and XL to show the same amount of loss that you had, but SS would only lose 3/4 of a quart over the same distance. Running 3/4-1 quart low is certainly not going to risk doing damage to an engine under "normal" conditions, maybe not even under "severe" conditions.

I'm not a fan of some of the things this guy says...but if you pay attention to the oil analysis results you can see that Signature Series performed exceptionally well in the Vegas heat. Even in that old 5.2.

I have also attached the oil analysis reports from my BMW. This was after running AMSOIL from ~40k, intervals were ~9k miles.

The UOA on your BMW looks excellent. A TBN of 3.6 after 10K+ in a turbocharged engine shows that oil was nowhere near being finished, as Blackstone noted. Insolubles at .2 % shows the oil was clean. Is it safe to assume the oil was very black when you drained it?

 

[jdefoe0424]

The UOA on your BMW looks excellent. A TBN of 3.6 after 10K+ in a turbocharged engine shows that oil was nowhere near being finished, as Blackstone noted. Insolubles at .2 % shows the oil was clean. Is it safe to assume the oil was very black when you drained it?

It was certainly dark but not like the black you would see out of an older vehicle with looser tolerances etc.
To be fair, it did do a lot of highway miles compared to the city miles. I have family in new york so it did multiple trips a year, and a long distance relationship will add up the miles too.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

[Nails]

I have enjoyed this convo. Let’s take a deep breath really. Hemi engine is amazing design and in 3gen design made huge power jump. With one flaw, lifter/cam contact and lack of oiling due to its radical valve train angle and crank splash. Anyway you look at it. For long haul no issue ownership with fingers crossed.

Clean/quality oil and filter at the deserved change intervals. Sure there are variables, those are in every aspect of anything. I have seen tons of wiped lifter/cams and I’ve seen tons of high mileage never broken into hemis.

Someone that does semi-synthetic at a 3-5k change intervals can be just as successful as a super high end oil at higher change intervals with the more popular middle of the road peeps. I’ve seen great success from all and fails from all through the years. Golden rule is continuous clean/not broken down how ever you want to achieve that. Your hemi should succeed

 

[PowerJrod]

Factory recommended OCIs are commonly above the 7500-mile interval you mentioned earlier (our Audi recommends every 10K after an initial 15K, a Camry is 10K, certain BMWs are 15K, etc). To make a blanket statement that “12K is dangerous” presumes all of these engineers are wrong.

That said, our trucks have an oil life monitor system that yields around 10K max (or 1 year) and recommends oils meeting a pretty typical specification. It’s an average spec...neither the “3 months or 3,000 miles” of the 1980s nor a “risky” 25K exotic OCI. I’m a low-mileage guy, so it’s an annual ritual for me. It meets the requirements of my lifetime warranty.

The engineers are not wrong...they just don't have our best interest at heart. Their goals are sales and making sure a vehicle will meet it's end of warranty period. Which is different from us wanting our vehicles to last 150k miles. Different objectives. I've never heard anyone say they have a vehicle with 200k miles on it and only changed the oil once every 12k miles. Have you?

 

[SpeedyV]

The engineers are not wrong...they just don't have our best interest at heart. Their goals are sales and making sure a vehicle will meet it's end of warranty period. Which is different from us wanting our vehicles to last 150k miles. Different objectives. I've never heard anyone say they have a vehicle with 200k miles on it and only changed the oil once every 12k miles. Have you?

Yep. I’m aware of a car with nearly 400K miles that has had oil changes every 15K, along with a ‘younger’ car that has hit 200K miles (so far) on 25K intervals. In both of those cases, the owners do periodic checks to ensure the oil is ‘healthy’. Neither use any noticeable oil, and filters are changed more frequently (10-20K) as deemed necessary.

Mobil 1 put 500K miles on a Chevy pickup doing oil changes at 20K intervals to prove their product (Mobil 1 Extended Performance) would live up to their engineering claims in real-world testing.

 

[silver64]

The engineers are not wrong...they just don't have our best interest at heart. Their goals are sales and making sure a vehicle will meet it's end of warranty period. Which is different from us wanting our vehicles to last 150k miles. Different objectives. I've never heard anyone say they have a vehicle with 200k miles on it and only changed the oil once every 12k miles. Have you?

I am Engineer by trade and I can tell you most of my peers state the facts and let marketing and sales stretch the truth so its offensive to hear someone say its the Engineers who are deceiving the public to make more money etc etc. I think people are over thinking things here. I would change your oil when the vehicle indicator lights up says change it. If you want to change it more often have at it. There's not going to be any issues for 99% of us in any case. The Hemi 5.7 has been in service for over 10 years and the known issues have had plenty of time to be documented. The service life of the engine has been very respectable over that time period and its certainly not 60k miles.

 

[PowerJrod]

I am Engineer by trade and I can tell you most of my peers state the facts and let marketing and sales stretch the truth so its offensive to hear someone say its the Engineers who are deceiving the public to make more money etc etc. I think people are over thinking things here. I would change your oil when the vehicle indicator lights up says change it. If you want to change it more often have at it. There's not going to be any issues for 99% of us in any case. The Hemi 5.7 has been in service for over 10 years and the known issues have had plenty of time to be documented. The service life of the engine has been very respectable over that time period and its certainly not 60k miles.

I was speaking more towards running until the warranty period ends, but I definitely do see your point.

 

[dreinert]

Just for reference, I've included my latest UOA on my 2019 Ram 1500 at 46,000miles including a few TBNs on previous samples for reference.

For all of them shown on the report I've been running the below:
Royal Purple 10-48 oil filter
5qts - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w20
2qts - Redline 5w30 (edited 12/24)

Sorry for the quality; my PDF editor isn't cooperating...

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Just for reference, I've included my latest UOA on my 2019 Ram 1500 at 46,000miles including a few TBNs on previous samples for reference.

For all of them shown on the report I've been running the below:
Royal Purple 10-48 oil filter
5qts - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w20
2qts - Redline 5w20

Sorry for the quality; my PDF editor isn't cooperating...

The three samples that have the TBN level shows that the oil could definitely have gone longer. What really jumps out at me is that your first five samples are all out of the 20 grade range and are actually 30 grades, which is why Blackstone highlighted the first four. Even the one from 5-4 shows a viscosity of 9.53 cSt, which is technically a 30 grade. For some reason Blackstone shows the upper viscosity range for 20 grades is 9.7 but according to SAE J300 the upper limit is <9.3 cSt. Your first two are approaching the upper limit of the 30 grade range. Did Blackstone have an explanation for them thickening out of 20 grade?