Oil Preference?

[PowerJrod]

It's pointless to argue "best oil" with an Amsoil salesman. They have a vested interest is promoting Amsoil. Now I'm not saying it's not good oil, just it's not that much better than most modern oils to make it worth the price difference.

Good point... especially when they change their oil every 15k miles, how can we compete against that in terms of practicality..?

 

[Jako]

20 years ago AMSOIL was by a large margin the best and there was nothing that compared.
I'm glad you all have faith that the lackey at the dealer is putting in the right stuff and not stripping your drain plug, running it in and out with an impact, over torquing lug nuts, etc...my vehicles are well cared for in both maintenance and how they are driven.

I am an engineer for my day job. Worked with large diesel engines in the past and now with 2 stroke lawn and garden stuff.

I can see that this conversation is heading downhill. If anyone would like to have a constructive conversation then I'm game for that.

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I like your comment about "torquing". My son's 2006 Honda has a torque spec of 80 ft./lbs. and the Ram is 130 ft./lbs. Do any of the shops with impact guns actually know what the torque values are and insure the specs are applied?
My last few experiences with "tire shops" were horrendous. One of the lug nuts for my 2001 Ram had the coating come off and I believe it needed an 18 mm socket to get off, which I didn't have. Went back to the shop and the guy knew what he did as explained the circumstances. If I got a flat I would have been screwed.

 

[PowerJrod]

I like your comment about "torquing". My son's 2006 Honda has a torque spec of 80 ft./lbs. and the Ram is 130 ft./lbs. Do any of the shops with impact guns actually know what the torque values are and insure the specs are applied?
My last few experiences with "tire shops" were horrendous. One of the lug nuts for my 2001 Ram had the coating come off and I believe it needed an 18 mm socket to get off, which I didn't have. Went back to the shop and the guy knew what he did as explained the circumstances. If I got a flat I would have been screwed.

I started carrying my torque socket wrench in my truck for that reason...plus I need it to break the oil drain plug come oil change time....gotta do a lot of twerking! All day...AMSoil...twerking

 

[jdefoe0424]

Agreed, it's crazy to believe that paying all that extra money using an oil/filter for long enough to void your warranty being worth it at all. Anything over $25 for 5 quarts is an absolute waste. So is going over 7500 miles on a single oil change. This is why I buy a vehicle as new as possible. I'd hate to buy a used one and end up with his lmao!

You apparently missed the part where the OE line can be had for 5.45 a quart or less.

It's pointless to argue "best oil" with an Amsoil salesman. They have a vested interest is promoting Amsoil. Now I'm not saying it's not good oil, just it's not that much better than most modern oils to make it worth the price difference.

My intentions are not to shove it down people's throats like you're thinking. It's not my day job and I never expect it to be, I just want to put the facts out there and tell people my experience with it and say it like it is. I've had many people tell me they use something different and that's ok. I thank them for their time and tell them if they ever have any questions to give me a call.

Good point... especially when they change their oil every 15k miles, how can we compete against that in terms of practicality..?

The interval I stated was 12k, not 15k. But where is that not practical? Less time changing oil, less time in a shop, less waste oil that we have nothing to do with...the real truth is that longer oil change intervals are helping to save the environment.

I started carrying my torque socket wrench in my truck for that reason...plus I need it to break the oil drain plug come oil change time....gotta do a lot of twerking! All day...AMSoil...twerking

No need to be patronizing...I'm not here to force people to convert, I'm here to be part of the helpful and friendly RAM community we have here.

 

[PowerJrod]

You apparently missed the part where the OE line can be had for 5.45 a quart or less.


My intentions are not to shove it down people's throats like you're thinking. It's not my day job and I never expect it to be, I just want to put the facts out there and tell people my experience with it and say it like it is. I've had many people tell me they use something different and that's ok. I thank them for their time and tell them if they ever have any questions to give me a call.


The interval I stated was 12k, not 15k. But where is that not practical? Less time changing oil, less time in a shop, less waste oil that we have nothing to do with...the real truth is that longer oil change intervals are helping to save the environment.


No need to be patronizing...I'm not here to force people to convert, I'm here to be part of the helpful and friendly RAM community we have here.

Lol 12k mile intervals are not practical at all...say goodbye to your warranty and your engine. And oh...$5.45 per quart is still over $25 for 5 quarts. (math). Look man...anyone on here is going to disagree with your oil change intervals because that's spreading potentially dangerous info. Please don't post crap about 12k oil changes because some poor guy that doesn't know better is going to try it and then he'll be left without an engine. This forum is made to help people as well as healthy debates...not to spread disinformation.

 

[jdefoe0424]

Lol 12k mile intervals are not practical at all...say goodbye to your warranty and your engine. And oh...$5.45 per quart is still over $25 for 5 quarts. (math). Look man...anyone on here is going to disagree with your oil change intervals because that's spreading potentially dangerous info. Please don't post crap about 12k oil changes because some poor guy that doesn't know better is going to try it and then he'll be left without an engine. This forum is made to help people as well as healthy debates...not to spread disinformation.

Like I said before, AMSOIL stands behind their products. All of our products carry this warranty and if the manufacturer proves that the oil caused the failure then AMSOIL will pay for the repairs.

WARRANTY SECURE
AMSOIL OE Synthetic Motor Oil is Warranty Secure, keeping your factory warranty intact. OE is a high-performance replacement for vehicle manufacturer-branded products and is also backed by the AMSOIL Limited Warranty. For details, visit www.amsoil.com/warranty/

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[PowerJrod]

Like I said before, AMSOIL stands behind their products. All of our products carry this warranty and if the manufacturer proves that the oil caused the failure then AMSOIL will pay for the repairs.

WARRANTY SECURE
AMSOIL OE Synthetic Motor Oil is Warranty Secure, keeping your factory warranty intact. OE is a high-performance replacement for vehicle manufacturer-branded products and is also backed by the AMSOIL Limited Warranty. For details, visit www.amsoil.com/warranty/

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"All of our products"??? Yep salesman. No wonder you haven't been listening to reason. I'm done.

 

[jdefoe0424]

Do some reading on the Magnuson-moss warranty act. Then you'll understand why AMSOIL, when used as directed, does not void your manufacturers warranty.

Sure, call me a salesman if it makes you feel better. It doesn't hurt my feelings any. I use the products as intended and have had nothing but great results with them.
I do listen to reason, apparently my definition of reason is different from yours though. Just spouting that extended intervals aren't practical just is not true, can you guess how far OTR trucks can go between oil changes?

I've read of passenger vehicles running Signature Series and using bypass filter systems that have not done a true oil change in 50k+. They just change the filters at the intervals and then top off the crankcase. The proof is out there, you just need to open your eyes and see it.

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[PowerJrod]

I do listen to reason, apparently my definition of reason is different from yours though.
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No kidding.

...Magnuson Moss Act doesn't apply. That's only for modifications, not manufacturers required maintenance.

 

[SpeedyV]

Lol 12k mile intervals are not practical at all...say goodbye to your warranty and your engine. And oh...$5.45 per quart is still over $25 for 5 quarts. (math). Look man...anyone on here is going to disagree with your oil change intervals because that's spreading potentially dangerous info. Please don't post crap about 12k oil changes because some poor guy that doesn't know better is going to try it and then he'll be left without an engine. This forum is made to help people as well as healthy debates...not to spread disinformation.

Factory recommended OCIs are commonly above the 7500-mile interval you mentioned earlier (our Audi recommends every 10K after an initial 15K, a Camry is 10K, certain BMWs are 15K, etc). To make a blanket statement that “12K is dangerous” presumes all of these engineers are wrong.

That said, our trucks have an oil life monitor system that yields around 10K max (or 1 year) and recommends oils meeting a pretty typical specification. It’s an average spec...neither the “3 months or 3,000 miles” of the 1980s nor a “risky” 25K exotic OCI. I’m a low-mileage guy, so it’s an annual ritual for me. It meets the requirements of my lifetime warranty.

 

[jdefoe0424]

No kidding.

...Magnuson Moss Act doesn't apply. That's only for modifications, not manufacturers required maintenance.

It most absolutely does apply to maintenance. Sure, lots of lawyer speak in this...But if the manufacturer requires use of a specific part/product/brand for the duration of the warranty, then they must provide that product for free. It includes all maintenance which must be performed on the product.

U.S.C. Title 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE

From the definition section:
(9) The term “reasonable and necessary maintenance” consists of those operations (A) which the consumer reasonably can be expected to perform or have performed and (B) which are necessary to keep any consumer product performing its intended function and operating at a reasonable level of performance.

From section 2302
(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

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[HoosierTrooper]

12K OCI would be very safe with the Hemi engine under the right conditions, such as predominantly highway driving and no real cold weather starts, towing etc and using a high quality oil. To safely go that distance the oils TBN and TAN levels would obviously have to be monitored by sampling and analysis to accurately know the oils condition during the time it takes to get to 12K, and after it reaches it, but if the TBN and TAN numbers stay in a safe range it would be very doable. The Hemi is relatively easy on oil when compared to GDI and GDI/turbo engines.

Of course exceeding the 10K/1 year limit could cause the owner warranty issues if a problem arises, but a modern SP/GF-6A oil is capable of going that far under the right conditions. The 10K/1 year limit is there to give the consumer some incentive to at least occasionally change the oil and also to protect FCA from paying warranty claims on grossly neglected engines. Does anyone actually believe that an oil is perfectly good on day 365 but suddenly no longer serviceable on day 366, or that it's still good at 10,000 miles but is totally spent at 10,001?

 

[PowerJrod]

Factory recommended OCIs are commonly above the 7500-mile interval you mentioned earlier (our Audi recommends every 10K after an initial 15K, a Camry is 10K, certain BMWs are 15K, etc). To make a blanket statement that “12K is dangerous” presumes all of these engineers are wrong.

That said, our trucks have an oil life monitor system that yields around 10K max (or 1 year) and recommends oils meeting a pretty typical specification. It’s an average spec...neither the “3 months or 3,000 miles” of the 1980s nor a “risky” 25K exotic OCI. I’m a low-mileage guy, so it’s an annual ritual for me. It meets the requirements of my lifetime warranty.

Sure but we're not talking about Audi and BMW. And as said before...most of these engineers could care less about engine longevity anyway. That's why after 60k miles they and the manufacturers want you to buy a new one. Sorry...but what they "recommend" is not always having consumers best interest at heart. I'm sure doing 10k mile oil changes will get you to 60k miles...but after that good luck.

 

[PowerJrod]

It most absolutely does apply to maintenance. Sure, lots of lawyer speak in this...But if the manufacturer requires use of a specific part/product/brand for the duration of the warranty, then they must provide that product for free. It includes all maintenance which must be performed on the product.

U.S.C. Title 15 - COMMERCE AND TRADE

From the definition section:
(9) The term “reasonable and necessary maintenance” consists of those operations (A) which the consumer reasonably can be expected to perform or have performed and (B) which are necessary to keep any consumer product performing its intended function and operating at a reasonable level of performance.

From section 2302
(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

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There is literally nothing in that text that supports your wild theory. Good luck man. Let me know how your engine is doing in 60-70k miles.

 

[PowerJrod]

12K OCI would be very safe with the Hemi engine under the right conditions, such as predominantly highway driving and no real cold weather starts, towing etc and using a high quality oil. To safely go that distance the oils TBN and TAN levels would obviously have to be monitored by sampling and analysis to accurately know the oils condition during the time it takes to get to 12K, and after it reaches it, but if the TBN and TAN numbers stay in a safe range it would be very doable. The Hemi is relatively easy on oil when compared to GDI and GDI/turbo engines.

Of course exceeding the 10K/1 year limit could cause the owner warranty issues if a problem arises, but a modern SP/GF-6A oil is capable of going that far under the right conditions. The 10K/1 year limit is there to give the consumer some incentive to at least occasionally change the oil and also to protect FCA from paying warranty claims on grossly neglected engines. Does anyone actually believe that an oil is perfectly good on day 365 but suddenly no longer serviceable on day 366, or that it's still good at 10,000 miles but is totally spent at 10,001?

That's what I thought. Until I drove 6k miles this past summer in the Vegas 115 degree heat doing only highway driving (about 140 miles per week). I changed my oil (PP synthetic) it was BLACK and was missing a quart. So again... experience plays a huge part in my views, not just random babbling.

 

[SD Rebel]

Sure but we're not talking about Audi and BMW. And as said before...most of these engineers could care less about engine longevity anyway. That's why after 60k miles they and the manufacturers want you to buy a new one. Sorry...but what they "recommend" is not always having consumers best interest at heart. I'm sure doing 10k mile oil changes will get you to 60k miles...but after that good luck.

Yeah, as the owner of an E46 and E90 BMW, I am not a fan of their fluid recommendations, which in hindsight were wrong and were done for profit in regards to earlier transmissions.

Specifically BMW covering maintenance, but stretching out oil changes and making transmission fluid (and differentials) "life time", only for the transmissions to go out shortly after 100K because the fluid wasn't good enough. They didn't care of course, since it was out of warranty at that point.

Luckily I never bought a BMW sedan with an automatic, all were manual and I changed the fluid myself.

 

[jdefoe0424]

There is literally nothing in that text that supports your wild theory. Good luck man. Let me know how your engine is doing in 60-70k miles.

It proves that maintenance IS covered by the Magnusson-Moss Act.
Extended drain intervals are not for people who don't understand maintenance, don't know how to look after their equipment or don't want to put the effort into understanding what makes oils last.

Also, your experience with PP Synthetic does not mean that ALL oils will perform like that in the Vegas heat. For 5W-20 I have found NOACK volatility test data of 8.6% for PP and PUP is 10.5%.
OE and XL are 8.6% and 8.4% respectively while Signature Series is 5.8%!
Based on your experience I would expect OE and XL to show the same amount of loss that you had, but SS would only lose 3/4 of a quart over the same distance. Running 3/4-1 quart low is certainly not going to risk doing damage to an engine under "normal" conditions, maybe not even under "severe" conditions.

I'm not a fan of some of the things this guy says...but if you pay attention to the oil analysis results you can see that Signature Series performed exceptionally well in the Vegas heat. Even in that old 5.2.

I have also attached the oil analysis reports from my BMW. This was after running AMSOIL from ~40k, intervals were ~9k miles.

 

[PowerJrod]

Extended drain intervals are not for people who don't understand maintenance, don't know how to look after their equipment or don't want to put the effort into understanding what makes oils last.

Yes they are.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

That's what I thought. Until I drove 6k miles this past summer in the Vegas 115 degree heat doing only highway driving (about 140 miles per week). I changed my oil (PP synthetic) it was BLACK and was missing a quart. So again... experience plays a huge part in my views, not just random babbling.

And without an analysis showing what the TBN and TAN levels were after 6K you have no idea what the actual condition the oil was in other than it was black. That’s why I qualified my opinion that 12K is possible under certain conditions but ONLY if the user actively monitors the TBN and TAN levels via UOA. None of the labs that do UOA base their conclusions on how black an oil is, it’s done by measuring elements in the oil.

 

[PowerJrod]

And without an analysis showing what the TBN and TAN levels were after 6K you have no idea what the actual condition the oil was in other than it was black. That’s why I qualified my opinion that 12K is possible under certain conditions but ONLY if the user actively monitors the TBN and TAN levels via UOA. None of the labs that do UOA base their conclusions on how black an oil is, it’s done by measuring elements in the oil.

Although that's true...when I see black and missing a quart...I know better than to go another 6k miles. I hope that makes sense. There are so many reports and analysis that look good on paper but sometimes...doesn't always match up to actual implementation.