Input on towing setup

[JJRamTX]

I'll try and get a video this Friday, I've towed only a couple times before with this truck and I'm having trouble remembering the exact functionality of everything when mixed with towing.

I wasn't watching it the whole time to see if it changed, but I set it to Aero right after hooking up the trailer and then put it in Tow/Haul mode. I have noticed that it switches to Aero and then back to Normal if you manually set the height to Normal. I manually set the height to Aero as my standard and don't normally use Normal.

 

[JJRamTX]

Was just going to ask the same. You can change into all 4 modes when towing? Change on the fly??

And yes you can change to all 5 height settings while towing. However when you go over a certain speed it will default back to either Normal or Aero. UPDATE *** Wanted to clarify also that you cannot go into Entry/Exit or Off Road 1 or 2 if you are over 25MPH. ***

 

[Gondul]

Most listed hitch (and pin) weights are calculated off of the dry weight of the trailer, and are a percentage of the overall weight, unless specifically specified on a mfg's website.

Ok... so coming back to this.

Per Airstream:
Dry weight (inluding 2-30# propane tanks and 2 batteries) is 5868lbs.
Hitch weight of 791 lbs.

GVWR on the TT is 7600
10% tongue weight would be 760lbs
15% tongue weight would be 1140lbs

So if I kept the tongue weight as close to 10% as possible I could tow the TT loaded at at its GVWR with no issues, not much of a payload, but that's how it works.

Do I have this correct or am I missing something?

 

[Gondul]

Well, that's 7,419 lbs. Don't forget all your "stuff", and keep the tanks empty. Oh, and beer in the fridge - bottles empty too!!! Need help??

791 includes full tanks of propane.

7,419 lbs of what?

My 'stuff' would be the difference between the empty weight of 5868 lbs and the gross weight of 7600 lbs... about 1,700lbs.
I suppose if I filled the fresh water tank it would add 325 lbs. so it would drop to 1,400lbs. but why would you want to drive around with full tanks?

 

[riccnick]

Ok... so coming back to this.

Per Airstream:
Dry weight (inluding 2-30# propane tanks and 2 batteries) is 5868lbs.
Hitch weight of 791 lbs.

GVWR on the TT is 7600
10% tongue weight would be 760lbs
15% tongue weight would be 1140lbs

So if I kept the tongue weight as close to 10% as possible I could tow the TT loaded at at its GVWR with no issues, not much of a payload, but that's how it works.

Do I have this correct or am I missing something?

To get the trailer balance (tongue weight %), we take the hitch weight (791) and divide it by the dry weight (5,868) This = .1347989093387866 (lets call it 13.48%)

Always check the math by converting back to tongue weight (5868 x .1348 = 791.0064)

So, loaded up to GVWR of the trailer (loaded evenly of course), the tongue weight = 1,024.48lbs (7,600 x .1348)

Next, we need to add in your weight distribution hitch equipment weight = 100lbs (estimated per J2807 allowance)

1,024.48+100 = 1,124.48 tongue weight at max load (GVWR of trailer)

It's important to calculate the % tongue weight first, then add the wdh weight, as the wdh weight is a constant.

After this, you can add your other payloads to this number (1,124.48) to get your total payload on the truck with people and cargo.

Your empty trailer tongue weight would be 891 (791 dry tongue weight + 100lb weight distribution hitch)

 

[slimchance]

riccnick .. now you have me confused ... why do you ever use the empty (unloaded) trailer weight???? you will only ever tow that trailer empty one time and that is from the dealer at purchase ... the GVWR on the TT is 7600 #s, that is the number you need to use to get the 10% (between 10 and 15%) tongue weight .. your weight distribution hitch equipment weight = 100lbs is part of the payload .. so,
7600 #s times 12% is 920 #s plus the 100 # WD hitch equals 1020 #s
now look at the door sticker for payload and find the difference .. this is the leftover weight your trk has in payload .. say your door sticker payload says 1310 #s (using my example) you would take 1310 #s and subtract the 1020 #s to get the remaining payload of 290 #s .... in this example that 290 #s would be your family and any "cargo" inside your truck
and Gondul ... you say "but why would you want to drive around with full tanks? " ... i do not go to campgrounds .. i go to ranges to "dry camp" or some say boondock for 4 days at a time and there is never any water or electric or sewers where i camp

riccnick ... "Your empty trailer tongue weight would be ...." is an insignificant number since you will never be at the "empty" weight

 

[Johnvan]

I think he'll be in far better shape than this. 5800 dry plus 1000lbs of gear. He can load the trailer a bit aft and keep the tongue weight in the 12% range. That would be about 820 lbs.
Now a third of that gets put back on the trailer. I know some posts say that you can't do that but it seems to defy the laws of physics otherwise. The hitch receiver would still need to be rated for the entire tongue weight but the entire amount wouldn't count towards payload anymore. Your amount going to the truck will be about 550 lbs plus 100 lbs for the hitch.
Plus... some of that will be on the front axle so he can probably exceed the GVWR and still be below the axle weights.
I think he should buy a bigger airstream.

 

[JJRamTX]

Also don't forget that you can drop as low as 7-8% for tongue weight as long as it is a tandem or greater axel for the trailer. I wouldn't go below 7% as that is when trailer sway becomes a real problem.

 

[slimchance]

i just check the Reese hitch site and they do NOT recommend reducing hitch weight below 10% because they say below 10% is when you start to get the hitch TOO light and that is a major cause of trailer sway

 

[Gondul]

I think he should buy a bigger airstream.

You sir, are *not* helping... glad the wife isn't on here!

 

[Gondul]

To get the trailer balance (tongue weight %), we take the hitch weight (791) and divide it by the dry weight (5,868) This = .1347989093387866 (lets call it 13.48%)

Always check the math by converting back to tongue weight (5868 x .1348 = 791.0064)

So, loaded up to GVWR of the trailer (loaded evenly of course), the tongue weight = 1,024.48lbs (7,600 x .1348)

Next, we need to add in your weight distribution hitch equipment weight = 100lbs (estimated per J2807 allowance)

1,024.48+100 = 1,124.48 tongue weight at max load (GVWR of trailer)

It's important to calculate the % tongue weight first, then add the wdh weight, as the wdh weight is a constant.

After this, you can add your other payloads to this number (1,124.48) to get your total payload on the truck with people and cargo.

Your empty trailer tongue weight would be 891 (791 dry tongue weight + 100lb weight distribution hitch)

But if I load it so the tongue weight is at 10% making it 760lbs then with the WD hitch it is 860lbs.
Minus my payload of 1310 leaves me 460lbs... provided you can safely make the tongue weight 10%.

 

[riccnick]

But if I load it so the tongue weight is at 10% making it 760lbs then with the WD hitch it is 860lbs.
Minus my payload of 1310 leaves me 460lbs... provided you can safely make the tongue weight 10%.

To me, 10% is not enough, but that seems to be the magic number for most mfg's to fit into half ton towable trailers. Gotta remember, a trailer with a higher percent tongue weight pulls straighter and is less susceptible to sway. I'd always try to stay with the same ratio that the mfg claims for the dry specs, if possible. 10% isn't necessary bad, but I would want to make sure I didn't go under that either, as I'd consider that just as bad as overloading the truck.

 

[riccnick]

riccnick .. now you have me confused ... why do you ever use the empty (unloaded) trailer weight????

I'm using the dry weight and the dry tongue weight because that's what the mfg provides, they do give you GVWR, but they don't give you tongue weight at full load. So in order to calculate the baseline balance of the trailer, and get it's tongue weight proportion when evenly loaded, you have to start with the dry weight and go from there. You don't just get to make up the natural tongue weight of a trailer by picking a percentage you think is good. It has to come from somewhere. This is how you get a baseline. People use 10% as a "rule" because that's where some mfg's have gone with some trailers to get in the half ton tow-able category. However, as shown above in this particular example provided by @Gondul, the natural balance of that trailer is 13.48%, not 10%. Every trailer is different, and math is important. You can pick any number you want out of the sky, but that doesn't mean it's right.

riccnick ... "Your empty trailer tongue weight would be ...." is an insignificant number since you will never be at the "empty" weight

You ever tow a new trailer somewhere? Or an empty trailer back home at the end of a season? I have... lol

 

[riccnick]

Also don't forget that you can drop as low as 7-8% for tongue weight as long as it is a tandem or greater axel for the trailer. I wouldn't go below 7% as that is when trailer sway becomes a real problem.

Picking your own number for tongue weight is asking for trouble, as you don't know the balance of the weight of the trailer behind the axles. Taking X% off the front of the trailer moves that X% directly to the back of the trailer (assuming most TT's axles are pretty close to centered in the length of the trailer. To be more accurate, we'd need overhang and hitch length measurements from any trailer we'd want to calculate for)

 

[slimchance]

........ Every trailer is different, and math is important. You can pick any number you want out of the sky, but that doesn't mean it's right.

You ever tow a new trailer somewhere? Or an empty trailer back home at the end of a season? I have... lol

i have been towing trailers of one sort or another since i was 14 yrs old ... just in the last 10 yrs i have towed 3 TT that required WD hitches home from the dealers, about 2 hrs home, and that is the only time i have towed an empty TT .. i do NOT set up the WD hitch on that one time tow weight .. i do not take my trailer someplace and leave it for the season, when i go away the propane and water tanks are full and i take my food along from home and my clothing and other stuff, i do not go empty then go out and buy the stuff when i get someplace ... IF you want to do it right and take all the conjecture out of this conversation, then take the trk and trailer to a CAT scale the way you will haul it, truck and trailer loaded and get the truck loaded weight, the trailer loaded weight, the axel weights for the truck before and after WD hitch setup ... i have done this and following the Reese instruction KNOW what i am towing

 

[devildodge]

, then take the trk and trailer to a CAT scale the way you will haul it

Our Local Rutter's that they just put in has a CAT scale.

What is the process for using them?

Do you just drive on get your weights and pay?

Do you drive on get your weights, pull off make adjustments, pull back on...or do you make the adjustments on the scale?

Thanks for any info. I had asked for the info on another thread early on, but no one was talking about them then.

Think this would be a good process for an experienced person to explain.

Much appreciated.

 

[devildodge]

Guess the actual weight part is pretty easy.

Seems like it is about $11.25 for the initial and $2 for the reweigh within 24 hours.

So, that seems to make the trip out there well worth it.

 

[devildodge]

https://catscale.com/how-to-weigh/

Straight forward enough. Dont know why I thought it was Rocket Science.

 

[riccnick]

take the trk and trailer to a CAT scale the way you will haul it, truck and trailer loaded and get the truck loaded weight, the trailer loaded weight, the axel weights for the truck before and after WD hitch setup ... i have done this and following the Reese instruction KNOW what i am towing

Yeah, I think we're agreeing on the same thing here. Gondul doesn't know his exact truck / trailer / axle weights yet, but he's trying to get a good baseline to see if it's even possible or safe to be pulled with his truck. I gave him the tools (math) and reasoning (why you start with dry weights) in order to calculate a good baseline. Using the baseline proportion between trailer weight and tongue weight, he can calculate the loaded tongue weight based off of any trailer weight number he wants to speculate running at (any weight number between dry weight and GVWR of the trailer). I even said that the only proper way to adjust the hitch is to go to the scales. He's not adjusting his hitch yet, he's working to figure out if his tongue weight will be too high if he ever runs the trailer at GVWR.

However, if you're suggesting that you can use the wdh setup to remove tongue weight from the truck when you get to the scales, then that's a different story.

 

[riccnick]

I'll try and get a video this Friday, I've towed only a couple times before with this truck and I'm having trouble remembering the exact functionality of everything when mixed with towing.

Just to elaborate on this a bit, on the highway last night without a trailer, if I turned on Tow / Haul mode, the truck raised automatically from Aero to Normal within a few seconds. When I turned it off, it went back to Aero within the same time frame. Those of you towing in Aero, turn your Tow / Haul on! lol