Input on towing setup

[devildodge]

GVWR - weight of truck=payload.

If you exceed GVWR you exceeded payload. If you exceed Payload you exceeded GVWR.

This guy says it is okay to exceed both if you dont exceed GAWR(axle rating).

I was always told to not exceed the lowest of ratings.

You will not be able to exceed tire rating, so I am still on hold about exceeding GVWR for GAWR.

Gonna take a bit to get behind this.

Ultimately your TT can stop your vehicle with the electric brakes. So, I can get behind the small TV theory...but i have a hard time justifying it for me coming down off the mountains here in Central Pennsylvania.

Great discussion though.

 

[Cmerkert]

At the seminar they discussed the need for tapered bars and reinforcement of the hitch receiver. The reciever reinforcement probably wouldn't apply to our trucks.
They showed a Grand Caravan class III hitch receiver and explained that it would twist at about 1000 lbs of force. You'd set up the weight distribution and the moment you hit a small bump it would twist upwards. That direction of twist moves the bars up which reduces the amount of weight distributed. Now you decide to readjust the bars and bend the reciever even more.
Next step is you spend $65,000 on an F350 when a $100 modification to the reciever would have done the trick.
Final step is to go on a bunch of internet forums and tell everyone how dangerous it was to tow with the caravan.

Curious - how does the tapering of the WD bars make it stronger?

 

[Johnvan]

Curious - how does the tapering of the WD bars make it stronger?

Cut and paste from the Hensley website.

The tapering allows for more flexibility, which results in less stress on the trailer frame and, more importantly, the tow-vehicle receiver. However, the straight bar is still quite rigid and can cause undue stress and a rough ride.

 

[Cmerkert]

Cut and paste from the Hensley website.

The tapering allows for more flexibility, which results in less stress on the trailer frame and, more importantly, the tow-vehicle receiver. However, the straight bar is still quite rigid and can cause undue stress and a rough ride.

Duh - makes sense. More flexibility means less torque force = less stress breakage - like mine broke!

 

[YoAdrian]

To the OP @Gondul I also have an Airstream 27FB (2008) and am towing it with a 1500... with a little higher tongue weight than yours too since I have solar installed near the front. I don’t have very many miles towing in this config so I can’t tell you how it feels under various driving conditions, but the numbers work out and so far so good. As @devildodge mentioned, to me the key decision was sacrificing some luxury to gain payload - hence my “Bruno” is a nice but moderately optioned Big Horn (1600# payload), and not a Laramie with pano roof, leather, and Ramboxes (1240# payload).

To repurpose a saying... you can drive a 1500, you can have it luxurious, you can load up your family, or you can tow more than 7500#. Pick THREE of these four.

For me the Big Horn with a few select options (8” screen, center console) is incredibly nice inside. It is a quiet, comfortable place to be even without the leather. I miss Alpine and wish I had LED lighting, so I upgraded the speakers and headlights. Wish I had blind-spot monitoring but I’m not kicking myself for making my decision.

At the seminar they discussed the need for tapered bars and reinforcement of the hitch receiver. The reciever reinforcement probably wouldn't apply to our trucks.

Regarding Can-Am generally, I drove ~1000 miles to shop there based on a sterling online reputation, and had them reinforce the reciever on my previously owned Grand Cherokee; they are a class act. Yes they are certainly out to sell you their kit and services, but they are extremely knowledgable on towing setups and their advice is sound. Also their shop’s welding work was beautiful. Well worth the trip.

 

[Gondul]

Thanks for the input @YoAdrian. I think I found a 25RB to rent for a test run (has a higher hitch weight than the 27FB which makes no sense to me).

 

[YoAdrian]

Thanks for the input @YoAdrian. I think I found a 25RB to rent for a test run (has a higher hitch weight than the 27FB which makes no sense to me).

The newer Airstreams seem to get heavier and heavier (more luxurious again?). The pre-70s models are light as a feather comparatively!

 

[Gondul]

The newer Airstreams seem to get heavier and heavier (more luxurious again?). The pre-70s models are light as a feather comparatively!

People like their comforts I reckon!

Anyway two questions for whomever.

In reading through the AS Manual it states that the WD hitch shifts 1/3rd of the hitch weight onto each axle.
If that is the case, then a 800lb hitch weight is actually only 528lbs on the truck... or am I understanding this incorrectly?

Second question. When a manufacture lists the hitch weight weight, the math seems to indicate it is based off the GVWR of the TT, or is that also incorrect?

 

[riccnick]

the WD hitch shifts 1/3rd of the hitch weight onto each axle. If that is the case, then a 800lb hitch weight is actually only 528lbs on the truck... or am I understanding this incorrectly?

The job of the weight distribution hitch setup is to distribute the hitch weight forward on the tow vehicle, spreading the weight across the tow vehicle's axles more evenly than just on the rear axle. Because of the use of pre-loaded spring bars, some of this weight is transferred back to the trailer axle(s) as well. However, it is not intended to reduce the hitch weight or payload carried by the vehicle and transfer it to the trailer, as the trailer setup still needs to run with the correct proportion of tongue weight and axle weight to handle properly and be a safe towing setup. This is why it's important to adjust the wdh not only for distribution force, but also for height, which in turn corrects the amount of weight pushed back onto the trailer when setup incorrectly.

Second question. When a manufacture lists the hitch weight weight, the math seems to indicate it is based off the GVWR of the TT, or is that also incorrect?

Most listed hitch (and pin) weights are calculated off of the dry weight of the trailer, and are a percentage of the overall weight, unless specifically specified on a mfg's website.

 

[Gondul]

Thanks @riccnick... I love how convoluted and cryptic this is... it's like they don't really want to put out anything so they can't held liable or something...

 

[riccnick]

Thanks @riccnickit's like they don't really want to put out anything so they can't held liable or something...

Nooooooooooo.....

 

[Bhbdvm]

So... I mentioned to the wife about getting a TT and seeing the sights; I know, ***-backwards, but here we are...

Payload on the truck is 1310.
GVWR on the TT is 7600
TW on the TT is 791

GCVW is 17000
Actual GCVW is 15200

Once I add passenger and the WD hitch, it doesn't leave much of anything for payload.
So while well within the towing capacity, payload is kinda short.

So I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better served moving to a 2500; the question then becomes how to do so without losing my shirt on the trade.

I'll give you my two cents worth. I have an Airstream Flying Cloud 27FB. I had a 2017 Super Duty F-250. I sold the truck to get the Ram. At the time the Super Duty was deemed the best driving heavy duty truck and I agree. Not sure how the Ram 2500 now drives now but probably not any better than the Super Duty drove. The Super Duty is a great truck but it was too much truck for my needs. If you don't already have a weight distribution hitch, I would get one. That'll give about 300 pounds in payload by decreasing the tongue weight. If I pulled my camper every weekend or went on long camping trips frequently then I would still have the Super Duty. But unfortunately that is not my reality and I spend a majority of my truck driving as a daily commuter here locally. The Super Duty was tiresome to drive every day especially parking, etc. I could do it but I had to be choosy where I parked, etc. It didn't seem like a big deal when I justified spending 70K on the Super Duty but I had to be honest that my ego played a role but ultimately it was just way too much truck for my limited towing of my camper. I am confident that the Ram will pull my Airstream easily for my not so frequent trips (4x-6x/year?) mostly here in the southeast and in the mountains of western NC. I truly enjoy driving the Ram and I even mentioned somewhere on the forum that I felt like I was driving a sports car compared to my Super Duty. The Super Duty is a great highway truck but in town not so fun after the newness wears off. I don't miss the Super Duty. Great truck but too much for my use and the Ram is much more enjoyable as a daily driver. I am actually in the process of setting up my Equalizer Hitch for the Ram in the next 2 days for camping this weekend, next weekend, then spring break. I can more insight later but I am confident i'll be happy with the tow but even more after I unhitch the camper. Hope this helps!

 

[riccnick]

I found this flowchart online that gives the BASIC process to follow when setting up the wdh. This should get you within a pretty safe margin, however, in my (un)professional opinion, the only way to set one up properly is with a weight scale and a free afternoon.

 

[riccnick]

That'll give about 300 pounds in payload by decreasing the tongue weight.

This is not true, and is not how a wdh is supposed to work or be set up.

For reference: https://www.etrailer.com/question-180152.html

 

[Bhbdvm]

This is not true, and is not how a wdh is supposed to work or be set up.

For reference: https://www.etrailer.com/question-180152.html

I should restate by saying it redistributes the weight forward with less weight on the rear axle.

 

[Cmerkert]

Tow Setup with Air Suspension - what setting do you use when setting up a WD Hitch? Do you raise the truck all the way up to Off Road 1 or 2, or keep it at Normal, hoping to achieve that normal driving position with trailer. Could you then move it to Off Road 1 if you needed some more rise? What would that do?

 

[devildodge]

Tow Setup with Air Suspension - what setting do you use when setting up a WD Hitch? Do you raise the truck all the way up to Off Road 1 or 2, or keep it at Normal, hoping to achieve that normal driving position with trailer. Could you then move it to Off Road 1 if you needed some more rise? What would that do?

This is FCA take on configuring the Ram for proper towing with air suspension. 1. Trailer hitch weight should not be greater than 10% of total trailer weight. 2. If you are going to use WD bars, following is recommend. A. Place truck in jack mode B. Measure height of front wheel well opening from ground to the bottom of the opening.C. Attach trailer until full load is on the truck measure again Subtract C from B, divide by three and add B to the result, difference should be no more than 1/3 of normal ride height. Adjust until within specification.Turn off jack mode, truck will auto level using the air ride system.

I do not know about using off road to tow...I would think not a good idea...but I have been wrong before

There are a few threads this is discussed. I pulled that from one of my posts there.

Lots of good discusion, here onthis subject.

 

[Gondul]

This is FCA take on configuring the Ram for proper towing with air suspension. 1. Trailer hitch weight should not be greater than 10% of total trailer weight. 2. If you are going to use WD bars, following is recommend. A. Place truck in jack mode B. Measure height of front wheel well opening from ground to the bottom of the opening.C. Attach trailer until full load is on the truck measure again Subtract C from B, divide by three and add B to the result, difference should be no more than 1/3 of normal ride height. Adjust until within specification.Turn off jack mode, truck will auto level using the air ride system.

I do not know about using off road to tow...I would think not a good idea...but I have been wrong before

There are a few threads this is discussed. I pulled that from one of my posts there.

Lots of good discusion, here onthis subject.

I was just reading through the manual myself and it stated to place the vehicle in 'Normal' mode first, then place truck in Jack Mode.

And I agree this is a great conversation....

 

[devildodge]

That may be possible...I think this is actually the 4th GEN description...the subject was covered along time ago...I just grabbed the first one i saw on a search.

 

[Cmerkert]

I was just reading through the manual myself and it stated to place the vehicle in 'Normal' mode first, then place truck in Jack Mode.

And I agree this is a great conversation....

I remember reading that when looking through the manual online. Which setting is Jack Mode? 4?