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Input on towing setup

devildodge said:
Very interesting read. I will return my 2500 priorities to the fact I do need Crew Cab and 8 foot bed.

Very interesting thoughts this man has. Going to read more from him.
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I can totally understand the need for the 8 foot bed. I'm a first time pickup owner and I'm shocked at just how small the 5'7 bed is. I actually took my Prius to home depot the other day because I knew I could fit 8 foot lengths of trim in strategically angled and close the door keeping them from the rain! I can't do that with the pickup. My Dodge Grand Caravan was so much larger.
 
Johnvan said:
Read this, you'll feel a lot better about your setup. Meeting him in person and seeing the seminar was even more reassuring. He really knows his stuff.

https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-ton-three-quarter-ton/
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i went to the pages you guys listed here and i am active in the Keystone RV Forum, where lots of threads are about towing with WD hitches and 1/2 vs 3/4 ton pickups ... many TT owners say "I'm not towing that far", "I'm not towing very often", "It really pulls good and has lots of power" ... BUT that is not the issue, it's not about how far or how often or does it have enough power, I think it is about WHEN i am involved in an accident, that i am not at fault for, the first thing an insurance co. looks for is a way out of paying you off, they look at EVERYTHING ... is your truck and trailer inspected, are their tires proper and good, is the truck or trailer OVERLOADED .. ooppss .. when you are NOT legal fault is now yours .. both these articles are written by somebody that is trying to sell you something and they realize MOST trucks are 1/2 ton trucks SO do they tell you NO your truck will not tow this trailer legally, you have to go out and spend (on trade) $10,000 or $15,000 for the truck then another $20,000 for the TT ... nope it will pull just fine and you are not really going to tow it very far or very often to the campground ... Devildodge has posted in other threads that here in and around PA the weight cops are cracking down on the TT guys, so i for one am going to be sure that i do not exceed the payload and GCVW for my truck ... sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear
 
He actually addressed the liability issue. One of his customers is a CFO of a large insurance company. The customer wanted to tow a large airstream with a Volvo. The airstream was above the tow rating of the Volvo. The insurance guy had the legal department research everything and they said it was fine. No legal issue with it.
Many of the numbers people discuss on the forums seem to be manufacturer recommendations.
 
hellooooooooooooooo power wagon! :rolleyes:

hehehe
 
slimchance said:
i went to the pages you guys listed here and i am active in the Keystone RV Forum, where lots of threads are about towing with WD hitches and 1/2 vs 3/4 ton pickups ... many TT owners say "I'm not towing that far", "I'm not towing very often", "It really pulls good and has lots of power" ... BUT that is not the issue, it's not about how far or how often or does it have enough power, I think it is about WHEN i am involved in an accident, that i am not at fault for, the first thing an insurance co. looks for is a way out of paying you off, they look at EVERYTHING ... is your truck and trailer inspected, are their tires proper and good, is the truck or trailer OVERLOADED .. ooppss .. when you are NOT legal fault is now yours .. both these articles are written by somebody that is trying to sell you something and they realize MOST trucks are 1/2 ton trucks SO do they tell you NO your truck will not tow this trailer legally, you have to go out and spend (on trade) $10,000 or $15,000 for the truck then another $20,000 for the TT ... nope it will pull just fine and you are not really going to tow it very far or very often to the campground ... Devildodge has posted in other threads that here in and around PA the weight cops are cracking down on the TT guys, so i for one am going to be sure that i do not exceed the payload and GCVW for my truck ... sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear
Click to expand...
Johnvan said:
He actually addressed the liability issue. One of his customers is a CFO of a large insurance company. The customer wanted to tow a large airstream with a Volvo. The airstream was above the tow rating of the Volvo. The insurance guy had the legal department research everything and they said it was fine. No legal issue with it.
Many of the numbers people discuss on the forums seem to be manufacturer recommendations.
Click to expand...
This is definitely a new thought...not one that wasnt there...just one that wasnt discused.

One thing I did notice is that he seems to only do this with airstreams and that he is from Canada.

I know nothing about the legal side and the insurance side...except the arguments go both ways, and I wouldn't imagine it is a U.S./Canada thing.

I also noticed, that for me, the camping cargo is very minimal and not bulky.

Although I get his thoughts on the higher center of gravity and upgrading the 1/2 ton truck, I can not imagine that if that is all you had to do to haul all camper sizes, that there would be any HD trucks at campgrounds.

Very interesting that this man has towed so much with so little and very few problems, yet full size trucks breakdown all the time doing this.

The one other thing I found interesting was how he says 5th wheels are only for HD trucks and interestingly enough (as far as i know) airstream doesnt make a 5th wheel.

Interesting.
 
I see where you can test before you buy. If you give them enough advance notice they will have the combination you want ready to tow.

He does say about going up hillsand down.

Something else I found interesting is about the exhaust brake on a diesel. That was the one thing I missed from my 2013. But this weekend I noticed the 392 Hemi came down the mountain with the same feel, just at higher RPMs.

I already ruled out a diesel ever again in my driveway(although I may buy a G56 4th Gen someday), but I could see a 1500 meeting our needs more often...if we just change our camping style

So many configurations, opinions, facts, myths and urban legends on the travel trailer community.
 
He covered quite a bit during the seminar. He talked about how people were too focused on the towing capacity. He gave an example of a 2700 lb trailer that he refused to sell because it tows terribly. Poor aerodynamics and center of gravity. It's the manufacturers best selling trailer because of the 2700 lb number. He recommended another more aerodynamic model (not an airstream in this case) that weighed 4500 lbs but towed much better.
Also discusses how some vehicles with higher towing capacities like a Toyota 4 runner make terrible tow vehicles while a minivan with a few modifications are great.
So, in this case, the minivan exceeding it's tow rating is a very safe comfortable setup. The Toyota towing the smaller trailer would look great on paper but be a terrible combo.

The entire presentation was packed with a lot of charts and diagrams. Really interesting stuff.
Amazing to see how something like a Chrysler 300, with a 1000lb tow rating can become a better tow vehicle than a lot of larger SUVs when properly set up.
 
slimchance said:
BUT that is not the issue, it's not about how far or how often or does it have enough power, I think it is about WHEN i am involved in an accident, that i am not at fault for, the first thing an insurance co. looks for is a way out of paying you off, they look at EVERYTHING ... is your truck and trailer inspected, are their tires proper and good, is the truck or trailer OVERLOADED .. ooppss .. when you are NOT legal fault is now yours ..
Click to expand...

Ah yes... the old YOU ARE ALL GONNA DIE mantra to keep people in line.

I've seen this tossed around often, has any one provided verifiable evidence that this has been done and what were the circumstances surrounding the incident.

slimchance said:
...both these articles are written by somebody that is trying to sell you something
Click to expand...

And in most forums people are just regurgitating the same line of 'buy a 3/4 ton truck'... they are not simply repeating the company line that you *need* a 3/4 ton truck with a fair markup?

slimchance said:
... nope it will pull just fine and you are not really going to tow it very far or very often to the campground ... Devildodge has posted in other threads that here in and around PA the weight cops are cracking down on the TT guys, so i for one am going to be sure that i do not exceed the payload and GCVW for my truck ... sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear
Click to expand...

Would you not also be fined if you were over your GVWR or do they only look at GCVW?
Do you exceed your GVWR so long as you are under your GCVW?

I'm willing to hear opposing ideas so long as there is a valid premise from which it is founded... the 'we've always done it that way' line of argument goes absolutely nowhere with me.
 
devildodge said:
I see where you can test before you buy. If you give them enough advance notice they will have the combination you want ready to tow.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a cool offer.. but a bit of a drive from Florida!


devildodge said:
So many configurations, opinions, facts, myths and urban legends on the travel trailer community.
Click to expand...

Exactly this... and people simply repeat what they are told.... if it is correct, then great but apparently this guy has different ideas and they seem to work.
 
Gondul said:
Would you not also be fined if you were over your GVWR or do they only look at GCVW?
Do you exceed your GVWR so long as you are under your GCVW?

I'm willing to hear opposing ideas so long as there is a valid premise from which it is founded... the 'we've always done it that way' line of argument goes absolutely nowhere with me.
Click to expand...

if you reread my post, you will see i said "so i for one am going to be sure that i do not exceed the payload and GCVW for my truck " .. i guess there is something you need to explain to me ... If i am NOT exceeding my payload how can i be overweight on GVWR and then it would follow, IF i am exceeding my payload weight how could i NOT be over my GVWR .. seems like a valid premise to me
 
here is just one quote from Ken on the Keystone RV forum
"I cross trained with RMCP at 1 point.
How about this, they set up vehicle inspection points on public roads because they can unlike in the US. For the purpose of inspecting vehicles. A guy talked about how many got mad when the vehicles where overloaded. They made them comply before leaving. It could be cargo or people left on the roadside. "
other weight enforcement officer are also RVers and have posted comments like this
 
Interesting response. In one of those links there was a link to "see how much I can tow" (or something like that). It asked you for your vehicle's info and trailer. I put in my info, and even some of the weight ratings from the tow calculating spreadsheets I have been using. My calculations have me under payload by 200 lbs and under towing capacity by about 1,400 lbs. and I estimated heavy. Here was the response from the site, which was interesting . . . and makes sense based on what I've experiences.
- - - - - - - -
Hi Chris
You're not quite as close to your payload limit as you figure. When using a weight-distributing hitch, approximately 25%-30% of the 925 pounds will be carried by the trailer axles. You're likely 400 pounds under.

You are cutting your receiver rating (1100 pounds) awfully close though. The Equal-i-zer brand hitch has no taper to its bars, making them very hard on receivers and the A-frames of trailers. The bars have very little to no flex. Whenever you traverse a dip in the road, enormous forces are exerted by those bars. It is for that reason we don't recommend the Equal-i-zer, rather the Eaz-Lift or Reese.

Philip Tipler
Can-Am Towing
- - - - - - -
My Response:
Hi Phil,
Thanks for the info. what you are saying about The equalizer bars makes a lot of sense. My original tear which were the 10,000 lb bars actually sheared the receiver head right off the shank. It ripped off right at the vertical welds while I was backing it into my driveway where there was a dip where it met the road. What exact setup would you recommend? What options do I have?
Thanks
Chris
 
I think the big thing with this new thought is...your stock truck/car isnt going to just do this. You have to do the upgrades he listed and then follow very closely the setup of TV, hitch, and TT.

It sure does make me want to go trade my 2500s on a Dodge Charger AWD and just rent the outdoor toys we need.

But, for now, I will keep ththe trucks...I am quite fond of them.
 
At the seminar they discussed the need for tapered bars and reinforcement of the hitch receiver. The reciever reinforcement probably wouldn't apply to our trucks.
They showed a Grand Caravan class III hitch receiver and explained that it would twist at about 1000 lbs of force. You'd set up the weight distribution and the moment you hit a small bump it would twist upwards. That direction of twist moves the bars up which reduces the amount of weight distributed. Now you decide to readjust the bars and bend the reciever even more.
Next step is you spend $65,000 on an F350 when a $100 modification to the reciever would have done the trick.
Final step is to go on a bunch of internet forums and tell everyone how dangerous it was to tow with the caravan. :D:D
 
slimchance said:
if you reread my post, you will see i said "so i for one am going to be sure that i do not exceed the payload and GCVW for my truck " .. i guess there is something you need to explain to me ... If i am NOT exceeding my payload how can i be overweight on GVWR and then it would follow, IF i am exceeding my payload weight how could i NOT be over my GVWR .. seems like a valid premise to me
Click to expand...

I mis-read your comment about exceeding payload / GCVW. I thought I read that you are good so long as you do not exceed GCVW.

If at/near payload and the WD shifts more weight onto your truck then you would be exceeding your GVWR without exceeding payload, no?
 
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