Transmission falling out of Drive on downshift, blinking, displaying "shift to P" and back

[AlphaSheepDog]

Just to follow up with this, I brought my truck in for service on 21 September 2022 and they applied TSB 21-001-20 to update the TCM software. I can't say definitively that the problems has been resolved; however, 3+ months later and I have yet to experience the issue again. Just wanted to pass along a data point.

Unfortunately, to follow up on this again, my truck has started to experience this problem again. The above TSB did not appear to solve it.

 

[Archer1962]

Greetings,
Recently there was a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that appears to address concerns similar to the symptoms that some of you are having with your vehicle. To ensure this TSB applies, we would like to get you into the dealer to have a qualified technician review the details of the TSB and specifics of your vehicle. Once reviewed, the technician can then perform the repair procedure that best matches the symptoms and diagnosis of your vehicle. The TSB number is 08-093-220 and it's only for 2022 Ram 1500. We expect that a 2021 model year TSB will be out at a later date.

Rob
Ram Cares

What about 2019 RAM 1500 Rebel. I have the same issue.

 

[theblet]

So still no resolution?

 

[RamCares]

What about 2019 RAM 1500 Rebel. I have the same issue.

Hi there,

We'd like the opportunity to assist. Can you please send us a private message with the date of your most recent appointment with a certified Ram dealer? As well as any additional details regarding this. Thank you.

Lex
Ram Cares

 

[TX1500]

TLDR: Back-to back tanks with 20oz Techron in each and over 8000 miles since last occurrence.

Wanted to pass along a quick update on my 2019 Limited HEMI that had been dropping into neutral 5-10 times a week in January. Tried swapping batteries, using an ODB2 reader as well as 3 trips to dealer with no luck. Finally decided to look into the throttle body. On inspection it looked fairly clean so out of desperation I decided to throw a Hail Mary in this direction and ran two tanks of 89 octane back-to back with a 20oz bottle of Techron In each.

Issue occurred twice on the first tank but I did notice the truck seemed to be shifting smoother by the end of it. Issue has not reappeared since the second tank. Now use a bottle of Techron after each oil change. About to turn 45k and truck shifts better than the day I brought it home with zero reoccurrences of the shift to P issue.

Hope others give it a try and have similar results. Big thank you to everyone who shared their experience on this issue. Good Luck!

 

[c3k]

TLDR: Back-to back tanks with 20oz Techron in each and over 8000 miles since last occurrence.

Wanted to pass along a quick update on my 2019 Limited HEMI that had been dropping into neutral 5-10 times a week in January. Tried swapping batteries, using an ODB2 reader as well as 3 trips to dealer with no luck. Finally decided to look into the throttle body. On inspection it looked fairly clean so out of desperation I decided to throw a Hail Mary in this direction and ran two tanks of 89 octane back-to back with a 20oz bottle of Techron In each.

Issue occurred twice on the first tank but I did notice the truck seemed to be shifting smoother by the end of it. Issue has not reappeared since the second tank. Now use a bottle of Techron after each oil change. About to turn 45k and truck shifts better than the day I brought it home with zero reoccurrences of the shift to P issue.

Hope others give it a try and have similar results. Big thank you to everyone who shared their experience on this issue. Good Luck!

So...just to understand: your shifting issues have been resolved since you started using a fuel additive?

 

[TX1500]

As of today that is correct. Not saying it is absolutely fixed since I can’t be 100% sure what root cause was. Just that the problem which occurred almost daily, has not happened since the second tank with Techron.

If you check my post on page 9 of this forum i had shared data collected from my obd2 device which the dealership ignored because they could not reproduce the issue. This took me down a rabbit hole swapping batteries for fear the yellow top Optima was somehow causing the issue with voltage drops as the issue occurred.

different battery = same results which had me on the ledge shopping for something to trade it in on. That’s when the recommendation for cleaning the throttle body as a potential solution took priority.

Since mine looked fine visually, I decided to try the Techron with hope it would clean most everything in the fuel system. It was less than a $40 investment which outweighed replacing the entire truck, so I figured it could not hurt.

Only posting my experience and results in hopes it may help others. Again, small investment out of pocket that could help with a severe safety issue that will result in injury or worse one day.

 

[TX1500]

Did want to add if anyone decides to try this, the capless gas tank means you will probably need to grab the fuel funnel under the passenger seat located by the jack.

 

[theblet]

It doesn't really make sense to me that this would fix it, but if it works it works. Guess time will tell.

 

[Jack.]

Well I had the same issue, but I havnt had it happened to me in over a year. What I did was I upgraded my tb to the 87mm one from Moe's, I also had the tbs done and I had my pulsar set to performance 93 octane mode. Soo one of those fix it just not sure which

 

[Drewsome]

It doesn't really make sense to me that this would fix it, but if it works it works. Guess time will tell.

Vulpes stated cleaning the throttle body solved his problem. This might coincide.​

 

[GKIII]

I just had this happen for the 2nd time, almost 22,000 miles between my first incident and this weekend. This time in the middle of a busy intersection in Destin, FL...800 miles from home. Only thing I can link the two incidents together is the fact that they both happened within 5 minutes of turning the truck on for the first time that day.

 

[AlphaSheepDog]

I captured mine happening on video and brought it back to the dealership again. They were still unable to reproduce it. That said, they found and performed a PCM update and asked that I test it with that.

Quite honestly, with the mentions about potential fixes with the throttle body and adding fuel additives, it makes me think that this problem is actually similar to the Safety Recall the 2021's just received: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V265-2735.PDF. I'm wondering if the "Shift to P and then to D" is actually the engine stalling. @RamCares, I have an open case regarding this issue as I'm sure many others do on this thread. Is there any chance FCA can investigate whether the same "Air/Fuel mixture" problem could occur on previous model years, but the symptoms present slightly differently?

 

[Vulpes]

I captured mine happening on video and brought it back to the dealership again. They were still unable to reproduce it. That said, they found and performed a PCM update and asked that I test it with that.

Quite honestly, with the mentions about potential fixes with the throttle body and adding fuel additives, it makes me think that this problem is actually similar to the Safety Recall the 2021's just received: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V265-2735.PDF. I'm wondering if the "Shift to P and then to D" is actually the engine stalling. @RamCares, I have an open case regarding this issue as I'm sure many others do on this thread. Is there any chance FCA can investigate whether the same "Air/Fuel mixture" problem could occur on previous model years, but the symptoms present slightly differently?

I feel like there is something to this, but I'm not a software guy, and I have no idea how to prove the theory. Maybe someone on here can find the line of code that causes it?

Also my 2019 has not done the drop in about a year, this is after cleaning the throttle body and installing an OCC. I was about ready to dump the truck before that.

 

[Afranky80]

I captured mine happening on video and brought it back to the dealership again. They were still unable to reproduce it. That said, they found and performed a PCM update and asked that I test it with that.

Quite honestly, with the mentions about potential fixes with the throttle body and adding fuel additives, it makes me think that this problem is actually similar to the Safety Recall the 2021's just received: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V265-2735.PDF. I'm wondering if the "Shift to P and then to D" is actually the engine stalling. @RamCares, I have an open case regarding this issue as I'm sure many others do on this thread. Is there any chance FCA can investigate whether the same "Air/Fuel mixture" problem could occur on previous model years, but the symptoms present slightly differently?

Mines doing the exact same, started this afternoon. I have a 2015 Tradesman with the 5.7 Hemi and 8spd ZF. Came out from the pet store started the engine, turned knob to drive and the light above the knob flashes and displays the same message “SHIFT TO P THEN TO DESIRED GEAR” Ended up having it towed back to my house. Been reading forums for hrs with only one solution I heard and that was a kid who used the wrong tranny fluid. I found it interesting that you mentioned fuel/air mixture as a possible related issue/cause? I drove through a big puddle that bottomed out on me and I almost lost the truck into a black hole. Was able to maneuver out but have had rough shifting, rpm spikes, surges, and misfires while driving for the last 2 months. I’ve replaced all 16 spark plugs, o2 sensors, intake air sensor, intake air filter, replaced transmission filter (whole pan) and drained old fluid replaced with Mopar 8&9 (about 5 quarts was all shed take, think I need to drain and refill again since it’s had time to mix with the rest of the old sh*t, ran sea foam through the cats, inspected the entire exhaust (what I could see) blown out and greased every electrical connection I can find, drained, flushed and refilled radiator, and then this happens today. It was throwing a code P0113 which reads a couple different ways but I’m leaning toward it being in the same line intake/exhaust air/fuel mixture neighborhood. I’m so frustrated it’s just sitting right now and I’m bussing it to work!

 

[Vulpes]

Mines doing the exact same, started this afternoon. I have a 2015 Tradesman with the 5.7 Hemi and 8spd ZF. Came out from the pet store started the engine, turned knob to drive and the light above the knob flashes and displays the same message “SHIFT TO P THEN TO DESIRED GEAR” Ended up having it towed back to my house. Been reading forums for hrs with only one solution I heard and that was a kid who used the wrong tranny fluid. I found it interesting that you mentioned fuel/air mixture as a possible related issue/cause? I drove through a big puddle that bottomed out on me and I almost lost the truck into a black hole. Was able to maneuver out but have had rough shifting, rpm spikes, surges, and misfires while driving for the last 2 months. I’ve replaced all 16 spark plugs, o2 sensors, intake air sensor, intake air filter, replaced transmission filter (whole pan) and drained old fluid replaced with Mopar 8&9 (about 5 quarts was all shed take, think I need to drain and refill again since it’s had time to mix with the rest of the old sh*t, ran sea foam through the cats, inspected the entire exhaust (what I could see) blown out and greased every electrical connection I can find, drained, flushed and refilled radiator, and then this happens today. It was throwing a code P0113 which reads a couple different ways but I’m leaning toward it being in the same line intake/exhaust air/fuel mixture neighborhood. I’m so frustrated it’s just sitting right now and I’m bussing it to work!

Sounds like you checked a lot of things that can go wrong with these trucks. All those connectors you pulled apart and greased should save you some CAN headaches down the road. How does the throttle body look? Clean, dirty, gunked up?

 

[Ruben-Ram5th 1500]

Mine still does it sometimes but only when the engine is “cold” or not at operating temp. When it happens, I just put “N” real quick and then “D”drive. No need to put “P”

 

[jonnygobig]

Same issue, 19 ram 5.7 no etorque, 35” 3.92, no tunes or intakes. Slowing to a stop, it lurches forward/thumps on downshift and kicks to neutral. No issue until about 50K. I do see really low rpm and trying to see if eco was on..danger…this needs a recall, ala carte warranty work and blanket engineering is not working.

@RamCares
Please care, and give us the formal “stallantis”position now as to what we should do to keep families safe? How are you containing until root cause is found?

The feels like an exercise that a real clear problem statement and commonality from the vast user complaints will expose the root cause culprit:
1. Not usually brand new, develops, meaning wear or service item..battery, TB dirty, tranny, injectors. - some say aftermarket TB and/or octane helps, maybe prevent quasi stall? Can you just downshift sooner please? Can we isolate by driving in tow vs standard to eliminate shift point or MDS?
2. Cold starts, meaning possibly in fluid path or until computers hit hot tune parameters or simple sticky TB? I do feel some lag on TB response after 50 K.
3. Downshift bump precedes kick out of gear
4. 3.92? Seems to be common but also common upgrade, mine has this from dealer, was TCM optimized to prevent stall?

Please help.

 

[jonnygobig]

Same issue, 19 ram 5.7 no etorque, 35” 3.92, no tunes or intakes. Slowing to a stop, it lurches forward/thumps on downshift and kicks to neutral. No issue until about 50K. I do see really low rpm and trying to see if eco was on..danger…this needs a recall, ala carte warranty work and blanket engineering is not working.

@RamCares
Please care, and give us the formal “stallantis”position now as to what we should do to keep families safe? How are you containing until root cause is found?

The feels like an exercise that a real clear problem statement and commonality from the vast user complaints will expose the root cause culprit:
1. Not usually brand new, develops, meaning wear or service item..battery, TB dirty, tranny, injectors. - some say aftermarket TB and/or octane helps, maybe prevent quasi stall? Can you just downshift sooner please? Can we isolate by driving in tow vs standard to eliminate shift point or MDS?
2. Cold starts, meaning possibly in fluid path or until computers hit hot tune parameters or simple sticky TB? I do feel some lag on TB response after 50 K.
3. Downshift bump precedes kick out of gear
4. 3.92? Seems to be common but also common upgrade, mine has this from dealer, was TCM optimized to prevent stall?

Please help.

Replying to my self here @RamCares. (Not) I cleaned air flow sensor, throttle body and exercised full range of motion including over travel of throttle body position sensor 2dozen times. No issues for last week and about 20 drive cycles. My theory is position sensor builds up oxidation in close to closed position, exercising through that static frequented position cleans contact plate.(had a 22RE as a kid that did this) Great theory, no evidence unless you do destructive analysis to throttle position sensor. I don’t even know if it is the old wiper position design inside to encode angle…but I have to do something, can’t continue launching my family into traffic in neutral. Without an official tsb or recall I am not taking to dealership for fishing expedition.. I’ll update next week if no flare/kick to neutral stall action.

Meanwhile, stay safe everyone while @RamCares and stallantics waits for the accident reports.

 

[Vulpes]

Replying to my self here @RamCares. (Not) I cleaned air flow sensor, throttle body and exercised full range of motion including over travel of throttle body position sensor 2dozen times. No issues for last week and about 20 drive cycles. My theory is position sensor builds up oxidation in close to closed position, exercising through that static frequented position cleans contact plate.(had a 22RE as a kid that did this) Great theory, no evidence unless you do destructive analysis to throttle position sensor. I don’t even know if it is the old wiper position design inside to encode angle…but I have to do something, can’t continue launching my family into traffic in neutral. Without an official tsb or recall I am not taking to dealership for fishing expedition.. I’ll update next week if no flare/kick to neutral stall action.

Meanwhile, stay safe everyone while @RamCares and stallantics waits for the accident reports.

I hope this works! I also hope you get the same results I did. I took mine apart over a year ago, and cleaned it like I had a crippling case of OCD, and it has not dropped into neutral since. So it has been good for over a year now.