F-150 Lightning Epic tow test fail

[HSKR R/T]

Are you ok?

Source?
When I look up vision I can't find any company related to running studies.
I personally have never been asked so not sure who this company are asking, or what country they are in.

I was able to find this
There are around 284 million vehicles in operation in the US as of Q2 2022.

U.S.: vehicles in operation 2023 | Statista

In the first quarter of 2023, there were around 286 million vehicles operating on roads throughout the United States.

www.statista.com

In 2008 20.57% of vehicles were pickup trucks, and 11.42% are SUVs.

Number of SUVs, Pickup Trucks on the Road Holds Strong, According to Experian Automotive - aftermarketNews

Texas tops in trucks: Pickups account for one in four Lone Star State vehicles

www.aftermarketnews.com

We all know that car sales are down and pickup and SUV sales have increased so i'm sure the number is even higher now but lets use the older number anyways.

That would claim that there are 58.41 MILLION pickup trucks at a minimum in use in the USA right now.

The survey you are clamming exists, claims to of surveyed 250k owners, that would mean they asked 0.04% of owners. Not a very sizable portion of truck owners. I am sure there are 0.04% of truck owners in the USA right now who only use their truck as a sports car based upon that small sample size.

A survey someone did claims out of 0.04% of truck owners, 75% of of that 0.04% use their trucks for towing, leaving 0.01% of truck owners not using their trucks as trucks.

Yes 0.01% of truck owners don't use their trucks as trucks.

Exactly.

But, but, but.....

You disagree with the survey, then put your own spin on the results to suit your argument. You have even said you were going to start a thread here to prove your point, yet discredit a national survey because it only asked 250k owners, yet here you may get 100 replies, if that. So you have essentially discredited your own unofficial survey due to small sample size.

 

[Darksteel165]

But, but, but.....

You disagree with the survey, then put your own spin on the results to suit your argument. You have even said you were going to start a thread here to prove your point, yet discredit a national survey because it only asked 250k owners, yet here you may get 100 replies, if that. So you have essentially discredited your own unofficial survey due to small sample size.

I never put my own spin. I took the information I was given, found my own sources and applied the 250k owner survey that may or may not exist to the full numbers putting it in context.

I just love the rationaliztions and yeah buts from the pro-EV crowd.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I never put my own spin. I took the information I was given, found my own sources and applied the 250k owner survey that may or may not exist to the full numbers putting it in context.

Nahz you put your own spin on it. The survey question was quoted as saying 75% of owners say they tow 1 time or less per years and all of a sudden in your reply, you spin it to say 75% of iw ers claim they use their trucks to tow. Which isnt accurate

 

[Darksteel165]

Nahz you put your own spin on it. The survey question was quoted as saying 75% of owners say they tow 1 time or less per years and all of a sudden in your reply, you spin it to say 75% of iw ers claim they use their trucks to tow. Which isnt accurate

It is accurate. Do you buy a new vehicle every year? I for sure don't
If 75% of owners claim to tow with their truck once a year, then that means that 75% of owners use a truck for what it's designed for once a year, and thus use it as intended. I'm not stretching anything.

 

[HSKR R/T]

It is accurate. Do you buy a new vehicle every year? I for sure don't
If 75% of owners claim to tow with their truck once a year, then that means that 75% of owners use a truck for what it's designed for once a year, and thus use it as intended. I'm not stretching anything.

Once a year "or less" which would mean, they don't tow. Since we don't know all the questions on the survey, or actual answer options, we can safely assume there wasn't a "don't tow at all" option, or they wouldn't have to put "or less" with the 1 time a year option. And that one time a year could very easily be towing a small trailer with their lawn mower on it. Hardly worth noting.

 

[SpeedyV]

Are you ok?

Source?
When I look up vision I can't find any company related to running studies.
I personally have never been asked so not sure who this company are asking, or what country they are in.

I was able to find this
There are around 284 million vehicles in operation in the US as of Q2 2022.

U.S.: vehicles in operation 2023 | Statista

In the first quarter of 2023, there were around 286 million vehicles operating on roads throughout the United States.

www.statista.com

In 2008 20.57% of vehicles were pickup trucks, and 11.42% are SUVs.

Number of SUVs, Pickup Trucks on the Road Holds Strong, According to Experian Automotive - aftermarketNews

Texas tops in trucks: Pickups account for one in four Lone Star State vehicles

www.aftermarketnews.com

We all know that car sales are down and pickup and SUV sales have increased so i'm sure the number is even higher now but lets use the older number anyways.

That would claim that there are 58.41 MILLION pickup trucks at a minimum in use in the USA right now.

The survey you are clamming exists, claims to of surveyed 250k owners, that would mean they asked 0.04% of owners. Not a very sizable portion of truck owners. I am sure there are 0.04% of truck owners in the USA right now who only use their truck as a sports car based upon that small sample size.

A survey someone did claims out of 0.04% of truck owners, 75% of of that 0.04% use their trucks for towing, leaving 0.01% of truck owners not using their trucks as trucks.

Yes 0.01% of truck owners don't use their trucks as trucks.

Exactly.

250K owners surveyed per year is a heckuva lot better sample size than this forum. The company is Strategic Vision - I omitted the first word above - and you can find references to the survey in question with a quick Google search (TheDrive, MotorBuiscuit, and others show up for me).

While these surveys address towing directly, others have been commissioned by the likes of Ford to understand consumer appetite for EV pickups. Seems like the interest level is strong, for better or worse. Lightnings are sold out until next year, at least.

Apparently, there’s also decreasing consumer loyalty to the pickup category - traditional pickup buyers are increasingly switching (e.g. to SUVs). So manufacturers are probably doing everything they can to adapt pickups to the tastes of the masses (and fleets) in order to keep pickup ownership levels high.

 

[HSKR R/T]

It is accurate. Do you buy a new vehicle every year? I for sure don't
If 75% of owners claim to tow with their truck once a year, then that means that 75% of owners use a truck for what it's designed for once a year, and thus use it as intended. I'm not stretching anything.

You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.

www.thedrive.com

 

[HSKR R/T]

BTW, that article was like the third article on a Google search. Not really as hard of information to find about a "vision survey" as you made it seem

 

[Darksteel165]

250K owners surveyed per year is a heckuva lot better sample size than this forum. The company is Strategic Vision - I omitted the first word above - and you can find references to the survey in question with a quick Google search (TheDrive, MotorBuiscuit, and others show up for me).

While these surveys address towing directly, others have been commissioned by the likes of Ford to understand consumer appetite for EV pickups. Seems like the interest level is strong, for better or worse. Lightnings are sold out until next year, at least.

Apparently, there’s also decreasing consumer loyalty to the pickup category - traditional pickup buyers are increasingly switching (e.g. to SUVs). So manufacturers are probably doing everything they can to adapt pickups to the tastes of the masses (and fleets) in order to keep pickup ownership levels high.

I still can't find the source, but I found a .gov website that refferences the study.
It was of 30k vehicles, in California. NOT 250k vehicles.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1759546/000110465920106256/tm2029038d3_ex99-2.htm

Do I need to explain how bias that is for this topic? Do you know what California has done for the Auto industry?

"Truck owners like Sobus say no matter what, they need the capability already offered by their internal combustion or diesel vehicles. Of new full-size pickup owners, 68% use theirs for recreational towing and 92% for carrying large items at least once a year, according to a survey of 30,000 truck owners from California-based automotive research consulting firm Strategic Vision."

The article is a good read and worth looking at. It's god damn shocking some of the crazy stuff they say.

BTW, that article was like the third article on a Google search. Not really as hard of information to find about a "vision survey" as you made it seem View attachment 139318

Not sure what you are using but that is NOT showing up when I do a google search for what you have. If you are referring to #1 that is from 18 years ago long before we have had EV.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I still can't find the source, but I found a .gov website that refferences the study.
It was of 30k vehicles, in California. NOT 250k vehicles.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1759546/000110465920106256/tm2029038d3_ex99-2.htm

Do I need to explain how bias that is for this topic? Do you know what California has done for the Auto industry?

"Truck owners like Sobus say no matter what, they need the capability already offered by their internal combustion or diesel vehicles. Of new full-size pickup owners, 68% use theirs for recreational towing and 92% for carrying large items at least once a year, according to a survey of 30,000 truck owners from California-based automotive research consulting firm Strategic Vision."

The article is a good read and worth looking at. It's god damn shocking some of the crazy stuff they say.


Not sure what you are using but that is NOT showing up when I do a google search for what you have. If you are referring to #1 that is from 18 years ago long before we have had EV.

Not sure what to tell you. You seem to be the odd man out here with not being able to find the information.

Seems the survey you found wasn't the same, yet you are trying to say it is.

 

[Darksteel165]

Not sure what to tell you. You seem to be the odd man out here with not being able to find the information.

Seems the survey you found wasn't the same, yet you are trying to say it is.

I provide sources for stuff I reference.
It appears people just like to talk out of their *** here and quote stuff they made up and not back it up.
Posting a picture from an iphone searching some unknown app is not a source.

I also never said I found the survey, I found a government website referencing the survey.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I provide sources for stuff I reference.
It appears people just like to talk out of their *** here and quote stuff they made up and not back it up.
Posting a picture from an iphone searching some unknown app is not a source.

I also never said I found the survey, I found a government website referencing the survey.

You found a .gov website referencing "a" survey. It's obviously not the same one, despite your attempt to link them. And I provided proof of the other survey results with the article I linked.

Edit: and the article you linked was an even smaller sample size from a specific area, so based on your previous comments about the sample size of the 250k owner survey, it's results aren't valid.

 

[Darksteel165]

You found a .gov website referencing "a" survey. It's obviously not the same one, despite your attempt to link them. And I provided proof of the other survey results with the article I linked.

You did not provide a link to the survey.

 

[HSKR R/T]

You did not provide a link to the survey.

Neither did you. I said I provided proof of the results. You won't find a link to the survey itself since it isn't an active survey. The results being quoted in multiple articles proves it was an actual survey.

See my edit to comment above

 

[SpeedyV]

I provide sources for stuff I reference.
It appears people just like to talk out of their *** here and quote stuff they made up and not back it up.
Posting a picture from an iphone searching some unknown app is not a source.

I also never said I found the survey, I found a government website referencing the survey.

Clearly, some handholding is required here:

Strategic Vision is the company that conducted the survey (now it its 22nd year, with millions of buyers surveyed overall).

Sometimes their surveys receive attention for what they reveal about pickup truck buyers. Here are a few examples that I just Googled for you:

• Most Truck Owners Probably Don't Need a Full-Size Pickup (MotorBiscuit)
  • Cites the 250,000-person 2019 survey and gives us the stats I shared previously (75% of truck owners tow once or less per year, 70% go off-road once or less per year, and only 35% use the bed more than once per year).
• You Don't Need a Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume (The Drive)
  • Cites the 250,000-person 2019 survey and gives us the stats I shared previously (75% of truck owners tow once or less per year, 70% go off-road once or less per year, and only 35% use the bed more than once per year).
• SUV and Pickup Purchases Soar - But Who's Buying (StreetsBlog USA)
  • Cites a smaller survey pool from 2020 (46,000 truck and SUV buyers) and tells us most truck buyers are Republican, white, men (although women frequently buy SUVs), suburban but not on farms, and are financially better off than most.
    • Side note: The suburban thing explains a lot. Trucks on farms and ranches get USED. Trucks in suburbs...much less likely to see 'heavy' action.
• Killer Truck, Dude (Slate)
  • Spends a lot of time talking about how pickup trucks kill pedestrians and other drivers, but then cites the same stats as the 2019 study ("...only a quarter of truck owners use their trucks' towing capacity more than once a year...", etc.).
• Electric Trucks are Coming - But Pickup Owners Need Convincing (Detroit News)
  • I'm adding this one for you as a "devil's advocate", as it cites a 30,000-person study (still from Strategic Vision) that claims 68% of full-size pickup owners use theirs for recreational towing and 92% carry large items in the bed at least once per year.
    • I found a couple of Detroit News articles that were much more "pro-truck" than pretty much anything else. Go figure

For the record, I Googled all of these. I don't follow any of them. Just "backing up" what I wrote earlier.

 

[Dewey]

Good grief. Please make it stop

At least the 3.21 vs 3.92 threads were worth arguing about.

 

[SpeedyV]

Good grief. Please make it stop

At least the 3.21 vs 3.92 threads were worth arguing about.

Too true.

So...where were we? 85.9 miles of range with a 6,000 lb trailer = ouch!

GM offers a MUCH larger battery in the Hummer (210 kWh) than the F-150 Lightning ER (131 kWh), but the Hummer weighs 9,000 lb!

Let's hope Ram comes through and the REPB is a beast.

 

[djevox]

Good grief. Please make it stop

At least the 3.21 vs 3.92 threads were worth arguing about.

I’d like to buy both of them a beer and start one of these conversations, then sit back and enjoy the show.

 

[Brutal_HO]

I’d like to buy both of them a beer and start one of these conversations, then sit back and enjoy the show.

People online should talk like they're sitting across the table from each other having a beer. There's always the risk of a visit to the dentist if you insult someone.

Then again, there's a reason I don't talk politics with (some) family. Sometimes there's a few nuts in the bunch.

 

[theblet]

Too true.

So...where were we? 85.9 miles of range with a 6,000 lb trailer = ouch!

GM offers a MUCH larger battery in the Hummer (210 kWh) than the F-150 Lightning ER (131 kWh), but the Hummer weighs 9,000 lb!

Let's hope Ram comes through and the REPB is a beast.

With that large of a battery pack, the carbon penalty for producing the hummer will negate any emissions savings over the life of the vehicle. Plus you’d get what, 100 miles towing?, and have to charge it for 6 hours to get back to 80%? Just speculating on the numbers. I’m not an EV expert.