Demand For Electric Pickup Trucks Continue To Decline

[Dewey]

Firefighters use 36k gallons of water to extinguish flaming Tesla due to battery

Alabama firefighters had their hands full on Christmas after a chain reaction from an accident caused a Tesla's battery to ignite.

www.the-express.com

 

[theblet]

Firefighters use 36k gallons of water to extinguish flaming Tesla due to battery

Alabama firefighters had their hands full on Christmas after a chain reaction from an accident caused a Tesla's battery to ignite.

www.the-express.com

Yikes. Someone’s gonna say it’s the same amount of water for ICE vehicles too.

 

[N7GZN]

Range anxiety:
There's more energy contained in a tank of fuel, vs. a battery array with its environmental controls.
With the limited energy contained in a fully charged battery array, also consider the losses in converting that energy into mechanical energy. You have a two fold conversion from chemical to electrical and then from electrical to mechanical.
There's much less energy to utilize for usable work.
Another consideration with the issue of battery thermal runaway is insurance, not only of the vehicle itself, but the building it is parked in. I've read that a parking garage in Kulmbach Germany has banned battery and hybrid vehicles outright.
When will my homeowners insurance company be calling me to say if I park an ev in my garage that they will not cover home loss due to a fire?
Evs are not ready for prime time until issues with higher energy density, and safety can be improved.

 

[firecadet613]

Sure EV fires are a concern but shouldn't stop innovation of vehicles even if electric. Oshkosh Truck (who owns Pierce Manufacturing that makes fire trucks and is heavy in govt contracts), is selling the Volterra all electric fire truck to departments (tested in Seattle, AZ, and here in WI). I asked Pierce Reps the same question on how to put one of these fires if their trucks were to start and all I got was "we aren't exactly sure, we never tested for that." How much water you think those would take to put out because a fire truck can never start on fire? Pierce isn't really worried about it and they have a lot of fire department people that work for them (we have several on our department that do). People want the government to not be in everything and then people do want them in things. These goofballs can't even run their own parties so last thing I want is them to have their hand in FD business, we have to deal with NFPA enough on that.

A good friend of mine is a dealer for Rosenbauer, who has some EV fire trucks in the wild already. Word on the street is, they don't like them.

My friend is GLAD he hasn't sold any!

 

[Gnix]

Oh god. I just picked up a MYLR last week for my wife. Shanghai built…..

 

[Snofire]

A good friend of mine is a dealer for Rosenbauer, who has some EV fire trucks in the wild already. Word on the street is, they don't like them.

My friend is GLAD he hasn't sold any!

We have 2 Rosenbauer trucks...Would send them back in a heartbeat. With their EV units, Rosenbauer's answer to battery fires was put a piercing nozzle in the battery compartment and flood it.

 

[nc_beagle]

Firefighters use 36k gallons of water to extinguish flaming Tesla due to battery

Alabama firefighters had their hands full on Christmas after a chain reaction from an accident caused a Tesla's battery to ignite.

www.the-express.com

I read where they are starting to carry "fire blankets" to just smother the fire.

Darley Car Fire Blanket

The simplest and most effective car fire solution The Darley Car Fire Blanket is the fastest, most efficient way to isolate and control an electric vehicle and traditional car fires. An ideal solution for parking garages, shopping centers, hospitals, hotels, boat ferries, car dealerships...

www.edarley.com

Makes sense. At least keeps it from spreading to anything nearby?

 

[Rick3478]

Neighbor just bought a used Lightning. He's still figuring it out, should be a source of excuses to poke fun at him. Already has had trouble getting it to "start". Apparently when you press the button, sometimes nothing seems to happen, unless you notice that the info screen says "ready", then if you press the accelerator it goes. Very nice looking truck, though. He doesn't have anything very heavy to tow, so should be okay.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Firefighters use 36k gallons of water to extinguish flaming Tesla due to battery

Alabama firefighters had their hands full on Christmas after a chain reaction from an accident caused a Tesla's battery to ignite.

www.the-express.com

Firefighting techniques will need to adapt for electric cars. That's why they waste that much water fighting a losing battle trying to us current methods that don't work.

 

[theblet]

Firefighting techniques will need to adapt for electric cars. That's why they waste that much water fighting a losing battle trying to us current methods that don't work.

Probably would have been something good to test before unleashing this on the country.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Probably would have been something good to test before unleashing this on the country.

I'm sure that's the first thing they do for every new technology created. Let's test flammability, then ensure every fire department in the country is outfitted before the selling government supported products. How long were petroleum base fuels in use before AFFF was developed by the military to help combat those fires? And there are still fire departments that don't own any equipment capable of deploying foam for petroleum fires.

 

[HemiDude]

I'm sure that's the first thing they do for every new technology created. Let's test flammability, then ensure every fire department in the country is outfitted before the selling government supported products. How long were petroleum base fuels in use before AFFF was developed by the military to help combat those fires? And there are still fire departments that don't own any equipment capable of deploying foam for petroleum fires.

That is just negligence. The cost to add foam capability to firetrucks is next to nothing, relative to the overall cost of said trucks. And as far as testing the new technology for flammability, it was already common knowledge that smaller l-ion batteries were fire hazards...do manufacturers think that problem was magically alleviated by making the batteries larger?

 

[HSKR R/T]

That is just negligence. The cost to add foam capability to firetrucks is next to nothing, relative to the overall cost of said trucks. And as far as testing the new technology for flammability, it was already common knowledge that smaller l-ion batteries were fire hazards...do manufacturers think that problem was magically alleviated by making the batteries larger?

I see you completely missed the point about how long petroleum was in use before AFFF was developed, and instead jumped right to blaming manufacturers for not developing firefighting techniques.

As far a AFFF and fire departments, many small town volunteer fire departments barely have the resources to properly outfit the firefighters to offer basic protection for the community. Let alone buying equipment that won't be used much.

 

[HemiDude]

I see you completely missed the point about how long petroleum was in use before AFFF was developed, and instead jumped right to blaming manufacturers for not developing firefighting techniques.

As far a AFFF and fire departments, many small town volunteer fire departments barely have the resources to properly outfit the firefighters to offer basic protection for the community. Let alone buying equipment that won't be used much.

Didn't miss the point at all, what you said about the the technology being developed to fight those fires is true. And yes, in the 21st century, we should hold manufactures more accountable than we did 50 years ago. I never said that manufacturers are responsible for "developing firefighting techniques", but I have family and friends who are first responders, and they are exposed to enough unforeseeable dangers in their daily routines. Do you think it is acceptable that they have to deal with highly toxic and explosive vehicle fires that could have had more safety testing done before releasing?

Additionally, I could have been clearer regarding equipment for fire trucks. I certainly acknowledge and understand the challenges smaller/volunteer fire departments face, and they can only afford what is available. I also see some departments spending big bucks on new trucks that could have this capability, but the money is instead spent on other options.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Didn't miss the point at all, what you said about the the technology being developed to fight those fires is true. And yes, in the 21st century, we should hold manufactures more accountable than we did 50 years ago. I never said that manufacturers are responsible for "developing firefighting techniques", but I have family and friends who are first responders, and they are exposed to enough unforeseeable dangers in their daily routines. Do you think it is acceptable that they have to deal with highly toxic and explosive vehicle fires that could have had more safety testing done before releasing?

Additionally, I could have been clearer regarding equipment for fire trucks. I certainly acknowledge and understand the challenges smaller/volunteer fire departments face, and they can only afford what is available. I also see some departments spending big bucks on new trucks that could have this capability, but the money is instead spent on other options.

My hometown fired departments newest truck is a 1970s military surplus tanker that they purchased in the early 90s using money raised through pickle card sales at the town bar. Which is now closed.

As you said, first responders are potentially exposed to lots of hazardous conditions in their daily responses. Not all of which can be planned for. There are ways to fight battery fires. Dumping thousands of gallons of water onto a vehicle with a mostly sealed battery compartment isn't the most efficient option. Firefighting techniques need adapted, but that's not the fault of the EV manufacturers. You can't expect company's to not release new products because of low percentage for fires, that fire departments havent bought the best equipment to fight.

 

[Idahoktm]

 

[Darksteel165]

My hometown fired departments newest truck is a 1970s military surplus tanker that they purchased in the early 90s using money raised through pickle card sales at the town bar. Which is now closed.

As you said, first responders are potentially exposed to lots of hazardous conditions in their daily responses. Not all of which can be planned for. There are ways to fight battery fires. Dumping thousands of gallons of water onto a vehicle with a mostly sealed battery compartment isn't the most efficient option. Firefighting techniques need adapted, but that's not the fault of the EV manufacturers. You can't expect company's to not release new products because of low percentage for fires, that fire departments havent bought the best equipment to fight.

I mostly agree with you, but it's not unheard of the manufacture of a new product to give you instructions on what to do during failure. The EV manufactures just release crap with no standards and as far as I know have not released what to do during an fire

All I have seen about EVs is you need to submerse the battery in liquid, and you can't lift up a Tesla and put it in a pool.

The manufacture can make slots for fire hoses or water sources to be able to attach during a fire.

Accidents happen with cars\trucks, it's the nature of the beast. There is no reason to now have it planned on what to be done when it happens from the manufacture's point.

Remember the Samsung Note 7 batteries catching on fire that got recalled? I don't know of any other cellphone that can catch on fire. Maybe a bad example but the manufacture stepped up to do something.
The companies making the EV have the attitude of "pay me screw you". They don't care about the consumer and just do whatever to make a quick buck. I remember when Rivian increase the price of the trucks that people already paid and locked their price in saying if they wanted their truck they had to pay more money after already having an agreement. They only reversed their decision because of the amount of backlack and people canceling pre-orders completely.

 

[kdoublep]

I heard if you throw gas on an electric fire it puts it out.

All kidding aside, my buddy is pretty high up in the fire dept here. He told me I shouldn't even leave my lithium batteries on a charger so now I try not to. Says those things can cause fires.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I mean, some of the thing he says are along the lines of anti-EV leaning. Like saying they shouldnt puncture the battery box to flood with water because of the warnings in the cars. That warning is there to keep owners or shops from doing that because it will damage the battery pack. If it's already in thermal runaway, damaging the batteries by punching through the box is a moot point

 

[HSKR R/T]

I mostly agree with you, but it's not unheard of the manufacture of a new product to give you instructions on what to do during failure. The EV manufactures just release crap with no standards and as far as I know have not released what to do during an fire

All I have seen about EVs is you need to submerse the battery in liquid, and you can't lift up a Tesla and put it in a pool.

The manufacture can make slots for fire hoses or water sources to be able to attach during a fire.

Accidents happen with cars\trucks, it's the nature of the beast. There is no reason to now have it planned on what to be done when it happens from the manufacture's point.

Remember the Samsung Note 7 batteries catching on fire that got recalled? I don't know of any other cellphone that can catch on fire. Maybe a bad example but the manufacture stepped up to do something.
The companies making the EV have the attitude of "pay me screw you". They don't care about the consumer and just do whatever to make a quick buck. I remember when Rivian increase the price of the trucks that people already paid and locked their price in saying if they wanted their truck they had to pay more money after already having an agreement. They only reversed their decision because of the amount of backlack and people canceling pre-orders completely.

Yeah, Samsung did something, but there have been multiple iphones that have had battery issues, and Apple really hasnt done anything other than release new phones.

How would a firefighter get close enough to a burning car to attach a fire hose to the battery box? And not even sure submerging it is a good idea because the batteries will still keep burning. They are going to need to figure out some chemical firefighting material to stop the chain reaction. It will come in time. As long as people keep buying EVs, they are going to keep selling them. And the number of fires is fairly low percentage wise. It's just tht when it happens the media blows it up