Demand For Electric Pickup Trucks Continue To Decline

[Dewey]

I copied this from elsewhere……..

Tesla model Y battery. It takes up all of the space under the passenger compartment of the car.

To manufacture it you need:
--12 tons of rock for Lithium (can also be
extracted from sea water)
-- 5 tons of cobalt minerals (Most cobalt is made
as a byproduct of the processing of copper
and nickel ores. It is the most difficult material
to obtain for a battery and the most
expensive.)
-- 3 tons nickel ore
-- 12 tons of copper ore

You must move 250 tons of soil to obtain:
-- 26.5 pounds of Lithium
-- 30 pounds of nickel
-- 48.5 pounds of manganese
-- 15 pounds of cobalt

To manufacture the battery also requires:
-- 441 pounds of aluminum, steel and/or plastic
-- 112 pounds of graphite

The Caterpillar 994A is used for the earthmoving to obtain the essential minerals. It consumes 264 gallons of diesel in 12 hours.

Finally you get a “zero emissions” car.

Presently, the bulk of the necessary minerals for manufacturing the batteries come from China or Africa. Much of the labor for getting the minerals in Africa is done by children! If we buy electric cars, it's China who profits most!

BTW, this 2021 Tesla Model Y OEM battery (the cheapest Tesla battery) is currently for sale on the Internet for $4,999 not including shipping or installation. The battery weighs 1,000 pounds (you can imagine the shipping cost). The cost of Tesla batteries is:

Model 3 -- $14,000+ (Car MSRP $38,990)
Model Y -- $5,000–$5,500 (Car MSRP $47,740)
Model S -- $13,000–$20,000 (Car MSRP $74,990)
Model X -- $13,000+ (Car MSRP $79,990)

It takes SEVEN years for an electric car to reach net-zero CO2. The life expectancy of the batteries is 10 years (average). Only in the last three years do you begin to reduce your carbon footprint. Then the batteries have to be replaced and you lose all the gains you made in those three years.

The truth is far better than the fiction we are all being told.

 

[SpeedyV]

I copied this from elsewhere……..

Tesla model Y battery. It takes up all of the space under the passenger compartment of the car.

To manufacture it you need:
--12 tons of rock for Lithium (can also be
extracted from sea water)
-- 5 tons of cobalt minerals (Most cobalt is made
as a byproduct of the processing of copper
and nickel ores. It is the most difficult material
to obtain for a battery and the most
expensive.)
-- 3 tons nickel ore
-- 12 tons of copper ore

You must move 250 tons of soil to obtain:
-- 26.5 pounds of Lithium
-- 30 pounds of nickel
-- 48.5 pounds of manganese
-- 15 pounds of cobalt

To manufacture the battery also requires:
-- 441 pounds of aluminum, steel and/or plastic
-- 112 pounds of graphite

The Caterpillar 994A is used for the earthmoving to obtain the essential minerals. It consumes 264 gallons of diesel in 12 hours.

Finally you get a “zero emissions” car.

Presently, the bulk of the necessary minerals for manufacturing the batteries come from China or Africa. Much of the labor for getting the minerals in Africa is done by children! If we buy electric cars, it's China who profits most!

BTW, this 2021 Tesla Model Y OEM battery (the cheapest Tesla battery) is currently for sale on the Internet for $4,999 not including shipping or installation. The battery weighs 1,000 pounds (you can imagine the shipping cost). The cost of Tesla batteries is:

Model 3 -- $14,000+ (Car MSRP $38,990)
Model Y -- $5,000–$5,500 (Car MSRP $47,740)
Model S -- $13,000–$20,000 (Car MSRP $74,990)
Model X -- $13,000+ (Car MSRP $79,990)

It takes SEVEN years for an electric car to reach net-zero CO2. The life expectancy of the batteries is 10 years (average). Only in the last three years do you begin to reduce your carbon footprint. Then the batteries have to be replaced and you lose all the gains you made in those three years.

The truth is far better than the fiction we are all being told.

See Switching To EV Trucks Can Impact Green House Gases More Than Cars and consider the comprehensive University of Michigan study it references:

“…battery-electric vehicles have approximately 64% lower cradle-to-grave life cycle greenhouse gas emissions than internal-combustion-engine vehicles on average across the United States.”

 

[jimothy]

See Switching To EV Trucks Can Impact Green House Gases More Than Cars and consider the comprehensive University of Michigan study it references:

“…battery-electric vehicles have approximately 64% lower cradle-to-grave life cycle greenhouse gas emissions than internal-combustion-engine vehicles on average across the United States.”

There’s a lot wrong with that article.

First, there’s the no sh*t, Sherlock aspect of it. “replacing a single internal combustion pickup truck with an EV version will have the greatest effect on carbon emissions by a huge margin when compared to other vehicles.”

Of course you’ll get the biggest single vehicle impact when you replace the least fuel efficient vehicle. Grant dollars at work; amazing.

That “huge margin” is 65% compared to a sedan. Pretty impressive, right?

Not when you consider that the base battery for an F-150 Light int is 96% bigger than that of a Model 3. So you could produce nearly two Model 3s for every one Lightning, based on battery capacity, which is very much a limiting factor to EV production.

And that Model 3 gets 18% better range than the base Lightning. The extended range Lightning has a battery that’s 162% bigger than the Telsa 3’s.

So one replacing one gas or diesel truck with one electric truck may result in a bigger CO2 reduction that the replacing a sedan. But replacing two sedans will have an even bigger reduction, for the same environmental cost of producing the batteries.

And as I’ve said here a few times, moving to hybrids instead of EVs has a much greater CO2 reduction.

The amount of Lithium battery for one entry level Lightning is enough for 64 F-150 hybrids, or 87 hybrids for one extended range Lightning.

Taking Dewey’s point about the environmental cost of producing batteries: if we are going to accept that damage, isn’t it better to amortize it over dozens of vehicles than one? When it comes to overall reduction in fuel consumption (and thus CO2), hybrids are also the winner. I’ve done that math before; I won’t repeat it here.

Toyota has been saying this for years: build hybrids, not EVs, if you want to have the biggest impact on fuel consumption, pollution, and CO2. Now Ford is admitting the same thing. Will governments finally admit it, too, before their policies create more environmental harm?

 

[theblet]

Wasn’t such a good idea after all

White House praised Hertz for 'accelerating the EV transition' months before company began dumping EVs | Fox Business

Months before Hertz's surprise announcement that it would sell-off much of its electric vehicles, the White House praised the company's green efforts.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[Rick3478]

Wasn’t such a good idea after all

White House praised Hertz for 'accelerating the EV transition' months before company began dumping EVs | Fox Business

Months before Hertz's surprise announcement that it would sell-off much of its electric vehicles, the White House praised the company's green efforts.

www.foxbusiness.com

I recently asked Hertz for a vehicle with a nav system, and they couldn't even do that. I thought it was a reasonable and pretty obvious thing that someone unfamiliar with the area might want, and I'd have been willing to pay a bit extra. But no, didn't sound like they had ever even considered it. So I don't think of Hertz as the best and brightest.

 

[Darksteel165]

I recently asked Hertz for a vehicle with a nav system, and they couldn't even do that. I thought it was a reasonable and pretty obvious thing that someone unfamiliar with the area might want, and I'd have been willing to pay a bit extra. But no, didn't sound like they had ever even considered it. So I don't think of Hertz as the best and brightest.

Hertz is one of the worst rental companies out of any of them.
Lots of law suites too, false damage claims, people charged for tools thousands of miles away on wrong dates.

 

[Runagun]

I recently asked Hertz for a vehicle with a nav system, and they couldn't even do that. I thought it was a reasonable and pretty obvious thing that someone unfamiliar with the area might want, and I'd have been willing to pay a bit extra. But no, didn't sound like they had ever even considered it. So I don't think of Hertz as the best and brightest.

All my cars have nav systems. And I've never really used them. 99.9 percent of time it's waze or Google maps. With Android Auto or car play it's redundant.

 

[Bob.]

I won't ever buy an EV. Maybe a go cart would be fun!

 

[mikeru82]

I recently asked Hertz for a vehicle with a nav system, and they couldn't even do that. I thought it was a reasonable and pretty obvious thing that someone unfamiliar with the area might want, and I'd have been willing to pay a bit extra. But no, didn't sound like they had ever even considered it. So I don't think of Hertz as the best and brightest.

Hertz is one of the worst rental companies out of any of them.
Lots of law suites too, false damage claims, people charged for tools thousands of miles away on wrong dates.

My experience with Hertz has been mixed. Some good and some bad. But what does that have to do with the article @theblet posted? The fact that this company (who was praised by the current administration for converting to EV's) has decided to reverse course just strengthens the case that we're not yet ready for the big push to EV's. Not even close.

 

[Dewey]

The funeral procession afterwards was hilarious

 

[runamuck]

Hertz is busy trying to sell/unload thousands of the EV rental cars they bought.

 

[ben b]

The funeral procession afterwards was hilarious

Wow! That's a powerful video. The fire captain narrating the video is extremely articulate. He calmly describes the incident rather than hysterically praising or condemning the technology and vendors.

Once low cost imports start taking market share in the USA, there will be an inevitable race to lower cost. Battery safety is likely to suffer, at least until these incidents routinely make local news.

I think I'll wait a few more years for the world to get over this hump before considering a full electric.

 

[theblet]

Wow! That's a powerful video. The fire captain narrating the video is extremely articulate. He calmly describes the incident rather than hysterically praising or condemning the technology and vendors.

Once low cost imports start taking market share in the USA, there will be an inevitable race to lower cost. Battery safety is likely to suffer, at least until these incidents routinely make local news.

I think I'll wait a few more years for the world to get over this hump before considering a full electric.

The world will also need to revamp the electricity grid. Everyone charging their vehicles will cripple it, as we’ve seen in California

 

[Willwork4truck]

Great video, I sent the link to my brother in Arapahoe County CO where this occured. He drives one of those planet killing 2500’s with a Cummins so he’s obviously an earth hater…

I liked the article that mentioned all the soil and mining tonnage just to get the lithium and other metals out of the ground, plus the Cat super sized non electric dump truck fuel usage to haul it all.

But it’s “clean energy” says Mayor Pete.

 

[kdoublep]

Just put a binky over it at night. No worries. Lol

 

[SpeedyV]

I liked the article that mentioned all the soil and mining tonnage just to getbthe lithium and other metals out of the ground, plus the Cat super sized non electric dump truck fuel usage to haul it all.

I’m ambivalent about the push towards EVs in the short term, although it seems inevitable as battery tech improves.

I’m allergic to misinformation on any topic, though.

The U of M study I referenced earlier found a 64% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from cradle to grave with EVs of all shapes and sizes, which (by definition) includes all of the embodied energy of battery materials sourcing.

That’s a huge number. So anytime you read articles lamenting the EV production process, consider that the lifecycle impacts of IC vehicles are that much worse.

I’m not making excuses for the “push” (politically, etc,) to EVs or the negative impacts of present-day battery production. But it stands to reason that we’ll continue to see breakthrough innovations in hybridization and battery tech, whereas the “big leaps” in internal combustion are behind us.

 

[theblet]

Great video, I sent the link to my brother in Arapahoe County CO where this occured. He drives one of those planet killing 2500’s with a Cummins so he’s obviously an earth hater…

I liked the article that mentioned all the soil and mining tonnage just to getbthe lithium and other metals out of the ground, plus the Cat super sized non electric dump truck fuel usage to haul it all.

But it’s “clean energy” says Mayor Pete.

Right. 0 tailpipe emissions doesn’t mean 0 emissions. EVs start with a huge carbon penalty, and have to be drive for a looooong time before the planet benefits.

It also makes us even more dependent to n China, which is not a good thing.

 

[70runner]

The funeral procession afterwards was hilarious

Thx for that video. Forwarded to #1 daughter who is considering an EV. She'll do what she'll do, but best to be armed with the total spectrum of pros/cons, beyond the government save the planet hype.

 

[SD Rebel]

I think EVs will make sense eventually in the future, but not exactly in the timeline politicians think it should be.

A mixed solution is best right now, versus a 1 to 1 EV to ICE replacement. Some people that can make sense, to be purely EV already. For others a hybrid or plug-in hybrid makes the most sense.

I for one would love a plug-in hybrid truck. My biggest fuel usage is all short trip drives. If I can be 100% EV during those drives, plug-in to solar and keep off gas when not needed, that would be amazing. Then run the gas engine on longer trips, off-roading or when I feel like it.

RAM Rebel Hurricane PHEV anyone?

 

[go-ram]

I think EVs will make sense eventually in the future, but not exactly in the timeline politicians think it should be.

A mixed solution is best right now, versus a 1 to 1 EV to ICE replacement. Some people that can make sense, to be purely EV already. For others a hybrid or plug-in hybrid makes the most sense.

I for one would love a plug-in hybrid truck. My biggest fuel usage is all short trip drives. If I can be 100% EV during those drives, plug-in to solar and keep off gas when not needed, that would be amazing. Then run the gas engine on longer trips, off-roading or when I feel like it.

RAM Rebel Hurricane PHEV anyone?

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Similar situation for me. I live less than ten miles from work, and I don't do any shopping at all unless I'm forced to, so 5-6 in-town short trips each week are the bulk of my usage. Because of that, I use my beater Prius for daily driver, the EcoDiesel for highway trips or when I need to haul a load, which isn't often any more. The upcoming Ramcharger hybrid is a better fit for my use-case, and whoever gets my EcoDiesel with very low miles, and never used for in-town trips, will be a happy camper. I hope Ram does a good job with the Ramcharger, and I hope I can afford to trade my EcoDiesel for a Ramcharger. If not, I'll keep driving the beater Prius and the EcoDiesel as I do now. In the meantime, battery technology will improve.
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I can't afford to put solar on the house, so if I ever do get a Ramcharger or other PHEV, I'll have to charge it off the grid. But my annual miles are always low, so grid charging will work for me as well...although I'd prefer to have home solar with storage battery for my own energy independence.
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Certainly there are legitimate use-cases for BEV and PHEV trucks & cars in local deliveries and short commutes, but as we all seem to agree, the headlong rush to eliminate ICE in favor of BEV in the next 5-10 years is a fool's errand, and the radical greenies who are pushing for that are doing vastly more harm than good for their cause. I think most of them actually mean well, but they're being idiots and creating a huge mess for the economy and the political scene. Well-meaning dopes, IMO, and they are a significant problem.
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