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Conflicting Oil Standards in Owners Manual

Synergy26

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Here is a thread on a Fiat forum, where they list the Valvoline 5W-40 Euro (ms-12991) as a low-SAPS formulation: https://www.124spider.org/threads/oil-filter-master-thread.15041/. I've read other sites claiming it is a low-to-mid SAPS formulation. In any event, it's probably better for the DPF than the Penzoil formulation. Maybe this is the best choice to both comply with the Chrysler standard and protect the DPF. WXman posted a link to Walmart for the oil, here is a link to Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZCR1LNG

Edited to add: This Valvoline oil complies with the BMW LL-04 specification. Here is a lay description of the spec:


Note that Penzoil Platinum Euro does not comply with the LL-04 spec. It is LL-01.

Edit 2: Found the Valvoline spec sheet (attached) on their Australian web site. Confirms it's low SAPS.
I ordered the Valvoline and they sent me the "new euro version", they don't make the MST any longer. The problem is the euro doesn't say it meets the ms-12991 requirement. So I guess I'll be sending it back. Valvoline wasn't any help when I called them.
 
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WXman

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Hi all,

I do apologize for the delay in my response, as I was awaiting a follow up from our engineering team on this matter. I have been advised that diesel oils like Shell Rotella should not be used as they will cause turbo coking and associated concerns as this engine has lower engine pressure than previous generation engines. Please know that the Pennzoil Platinum Euro has moved to SN+ with new formulation and it has not been validated. There are plans to test the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SP grade oil as soon as the virus situation progresses. Please do not hesitate to reach back out down the road, as I am happy to provide any additional updates I can.

Mark
RamCares

@RamCares Have any updates on this new Pennzoil formula and validation?
 

WXman

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I got confirmation this morning that the Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40 does meet MS-12991 and is safe to use in Gen 3 EcoDiesel. They are working to add the FCA cert. to the product information sheets for that oil at this time.

Apparently this oil is replacing the Valvoline MST 5W40 that was sold up until recently.
 

WXman

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Does anybody know what the factory fill oil is? Do they really use Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 at the factory?
 

cowboy99

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Does anybody know what the factory fill oil is? Do they really use Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 at the factory?

That's what I was wondering. That's a pretty significant piece of information and would like to know if they're using the "right" oil.
 

WXman

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That's what I was wondering. That's a pretty significant piece of information and would like to know if they're using the "right" oil.

Yeah it would be neat to know.

I can say that after 4,200 miles of towing, city driving, interstate driving, and lots of gravel roads, the factory fill still showed a TBN of 6.1 when I sent it off for analysis. Assuming the factory fill is Pennzoil Euro and it has a virgin TBN between 7 and 8, that's pretty darn good. That seems to indicate that 8,000 to 10,000 miles would be easy and safe on that oil.

I'm anxious to see how the Valvoline I'm using now will compare.
 

Synergy26

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I got confirmation this morning that the Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40 does meet MS-12991 and is safe to use in Gen 3 EcoDiesel. They are working to add the FCA cert. to the product information sheets for that oil at this time.

Apparently this oil is replacing the Valvoline MST 5W40 that was sold up until recently.

They couldn't provide me with any documentation when I called. If you get some let me know.
 

WXman

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They couldn't provide me with any documentation when I called. If you get some let me know.

Snippet from email they sent me:

"Our Product Development folks confirmed this morning that the Euro 5W-40 does cover the MS 12991 spec. We stand behind the use of our product 100% in your application. We have made the request to have that spec added to the PI Sheet."
 
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I ordered the Valvoline and they sent me the "new euro version", they don't make the MST any longer. The problem is the euro doesn't say it meets the ms-12991 requirement. So I guess I'll be sending it back. Valvoline wasn't any help when I called them.
Same thing happened to me. They are using the same product number, VV966, for both full-SAPS and mid-SAPS products, apparently. It's very confusing.

I settled on Motul 8100 X-clean 5W-40 as my oil of choice. It is NOT MS-12991 compliant, despite its inclusion on the list on page 1 of this thread (the Facebook group which created this list already made the adjustment). The Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40 is compliant, but I refuse to put it or any other full-SAPS oil in a diesel engine with a DPF. The X-clean is recommended by the manufacturer for DPF-equipped vehicles, and Motul is very good about providing complete specifications. They rate the SAPS level in X-clean as ≤ 0.8%.

Someone in another forum pointed out that the way the oil recommendation in the owner's manual is phrased...
We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as Mopar or Pennzoil Platinum Euro that meets FCA Material Standard MS-12991 and the API SN engine oil category is required
...suggests that the MS-12991 is a recommendation but API SN is a requirement.

In any event, I just changed out the factory fill at 3000 miles and put in Motul X-clean. I'll post the oil analysis results of the factory fill and also the Motul at 3000 miles.

Edited to add: By the way, do yourselves a favor and install a Fumoto F106SX oil drain valve at the first oil change. It will make subsequent oil changes a lot less messy.
 
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WXman

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Someone in another forum pointed out that the way the oil recommendation in the owner's manual is phrased...
...suggests that the MS-12991 is a recommendation but API SN is a requirement.


If that were the case, then we could simply use Amazon Basics Full Synthetic Euro 5W40, which sells for roughly $4 per quart. That would cover an oil change for $35 (for the oil alone).
 
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If that were the case, then we could simply use Amazon Basics Full Synthetic Euro 5W40, which sells for roughly $4 per quart. That would cover an oil change for $35 (for the oil alone).
You could buy the Amazon oil for $35, the filter online for $44, and an oil analysis for $40. That's only $119, and you not only have the data on oil quality to cover your butt in the event of a warranty claim, but you might also get an early warning of serious engine issues.
 

Wilsonwanderings

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So I had the dealer (Lithia Dodge in Portland) perform the first service as I had a radio SW update recall and a tailgate question also. Made an appt 2 weeks in advance for my ecodiesel. Got there and was told an hour. 4 hours later, I'm still waiting as they had run out of oil filters. Anyway, ignoring all that, the invoice shows 9 qts of 68357422AA 5W40 Turbo Diesel oil. Vowing to revert back to doing all my own services and avoid the bs at the dealer, I wanted to stock up for the next one and stumbled upon this thread when figuring out what to buy. When I Google that PN, I get a discontinued product and can't find the specs for it. Anyone know what they put in and whether I should do anything about it before the next service interval?
 

Sascwatch

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So I had the dealer (Lithia Dodge in Portland) perform the first service as I had a radio SW update recall and a tailgate question also. Made an appt 2 weeks in advance for my ecodiesel. Got there and was told an hour. 4 hours later, I'm still waiting as they had run out of oil filters. Anyway, ignoring all that, the invoice shows 9 qts of 68357422AA 5W40 Turbo Diesel oil. Vowing to revert back to doing all my own services and avoid the bs at the dealer, I wanted to stock up for the next one and stumbled upon this thread when figuring out what to buy. When I Google that PN, I get a discontinued product and can't find the specs for it. Anyone know what they put in and whether I should do anything about it before the next service interval?

I would hope by now that all dealers have been notified of the error, but to be safe I would double check with the service department on which oil they installed. Dealers who discover this error have been fixing it by having the incorrect oil drained and replaced with the proper spec oil.
 

biodiesel

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I have two free dealer oil changes, so I'll use those first. I'm not logging very many miles on my 2020 EcoDiesel, so I imagine my interval will be every 6 months or 4,000 miles, whichever comes first. I will, however, make sure I take an oil sample each time. After that, I'll be switching to Amsoil at which I will change at 6 months or 6,000 miles, whichever comes first. I do a lot of towing, so I figured changing the oil twice per year isn't very costly.
 

Wilsonwanderings

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So after some more googling, I found a Mopar chemical catalog that listed the part number from my invoice and sure enough, it is the Rotella T6.
1597680241502.png
I've got a message into the dealer to see about replacing it. Leaving on a ~2k mi trip towing on Friday so might not get it done, but as others have said, its good oil, just maybe not for the turbo. At least it is well documented.
 

Sascwatch

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The part number for the oil my dealer installed is 5127394CD which I have double checked with parts to confirm it is the pennzoil platinum euro 5w40.
 

WXman

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I know FCA reps said the turbo coking is an issue, but I am willing to bet that the biggest issue is the SAPS content of the oil. FCA is probably wanting to make sure they don't continue having issues with the DPF/SCR on these trucks....hence the change to Euro oils.
 

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