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Conflicting Oil Standards in Owners Manual

WXman

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Thank you Sir.

No problem. It's the least expensive MS-12991 oil I've found to date. I just order it online and have it shipped to my house.
 

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Mchurch52

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So I got the first oil change in my EcoD today and sure enough the dealer put Rotella T6 in it. I wish I had seen this post sooner, but obviously Ram has not gotten the word out to dealers that Rotella is not recommended for Gen 3 Ecodiesels. Looks like I'll be making a trip back to speak with the service department.
 

Sascwatch

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So I got the first oil change in my EcoD today and sure enough the dealer put Rotella T6 in it. I wish I had seen this post sooner, but obviously Ram has not gotten the word out to dealers that Rotella is not recommended for Gen 3 Ecodiesels. Looks like I'll be making a trip back to speak with the service department.

Refer them to my case file if necessary. Last time I spoke with FCA Canada it didn’t sound like they were in a hurry to update the dealers on this.

When the gen 3 ecodiesel was released the techs took a course on them and were taught in this course that the rotella was the correct oil, head mechanic at my local dealer argued this with me for 15 minutes even tho his computer shows the pennzoil euro is what they are supposed to order.
 

WXman

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Same thing happened on the new generation of Pentastar engine. They changed the oil pan and now those engines require 5 qt of oil instead of 6. To this day dealerships are still putting 6 qts in on a lot of them especially the Jeeps. FCA is terrible about communicating with dealers.
 

EugeneYYZ

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Same thing happened on the new generation of Pentastar engine. They changed the oil pan and now those engines require 5 qt of oil instead of 6. To this day dealerships are still putting 6 qts in on a lot of them especially the Jeeps. FCA is terrible about communicating with dealers.
This is regular stuff happens ourdays , mechanicks dont know what they doing , salesmans have no clue what they selling . Not a joke .
 

Mchurch52

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So I contacted the service department today and they said they checked the most recent MOPAR service bulletin update and this is what it said:

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — Diesel Engine
CAUTION:
Your vehicle is equipped with an advanced technology Diesel Engine and an emission device designed to limit Diesel Particulate Emissions from being released into the atmosphere. The durability of your engine and life expectancy of this diesel particulate filter emission device is highly dependent on the use of the correct engine oil.
We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as Mopar or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is required.

I've used this dealership for years and they are very good, so I don't doubt that this is the most recent service bulletin in their possession, but FCA/MOPAR really needs to get the word out to their service departments on the new recommended oil to avoid confusion.
 

Sascwatch

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So I contacted the service department today and they said they checked the most recent MOPAR service bulletin update and this is what it said:

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — Diesel Engine
CAUTION:
Your vehicle is equipped with an advanced technology Diesel Engine and an emission device designed to limit Diesel Particulate Emissions from being released into the atmosphere. The durability of your engine and life expectancy of this diesel particulate filter emission device is highly dependent on the use of the correct engine oil.
We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as Mopar or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is required.

I've used this dealership for years and they are very good, so I don't doubt that this is the most recent service bulletin in their possession, but FCA/MOPAR really needs to get the word out to their service departments on the new recommended oil to avoid confusion.

That is straight up copy and pasted from an older owners manual. The newest (version 4) has the correct info.

I am going to call FCA on my lunch today and see why dealers haven’t been notified of this yet.

The rotella oil shouldn’t cause any damage in the short term, but if your servicing dealer installs it I would contact FCA and they will make it right.
 

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Mchurch52

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That is straight up copy and pasted from an older owners manual. The newest (version 4) has the correct info.

I am going to call FCA on my lunch today and see why dealers haven’t been notified of this yet.

The rotella oil shouldn’t cause any damage in the short term, but if your servicing dealer installs it I would contact FCA and they will make it right.
Thanks for the info. I told the dealer about the new owner's manual, but like others, they go by what the service bulletin says. I sent a note to MOPAR customer support to get some guidance on what to do with the Rotella. If they say it's no big deal for the next 10K miles then I have it in writing if something should happen later on down the road (I'd never wait that long to change it anyway).
 

Aseras

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Adding this thread to the wayback machine so theres's documentation when the lawsuits start coming.

 

Mchurch52

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Heard back from FCA, they will be elevating it to the case management team. And obviously, they recommended I reach out to the dealer to have the correct oil installed. This was a complimentary oil change (since it was the first one) and I hate to make the dealer eat the cost of the oil twice, especially if FCA never got the word out to the service departments, but it needs to be corrected. I will be towing a camper in the Ozark mountains the week after next, so I really want to make sure the engine has the proper oil installed. If I were just tooling around town with minimal load on the engine then I wouldn't be as concerned about the Rotella T6.
 

WXman

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Rotella T6 is a great oil. On a brand new truck, one oil cycle with T6 isn't going to cause immidiate harm. With how much oil and filter changes cost on these, I would keep running T6 and make the correction on all future oil changes.
 

Aseras

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Heard back from FCA, they will be elevating it to the case management team. And obviously, they recommended I reach out to the dealer to have the correct oil installed. This was a complimentary oil change (since it was the first one) and I hate to make the dealer eat the cost of the oil twice, especially if FCA never got the word out to the service departments, but it needs to be corrected. I will be towing a camper in the Ozark mountains the week after next, so I really want to make sure the engine has the proper oil installed. If I were just tooling around town with minimal load on the engine then I wouldn't be as concerned about the Rotella T6.
Rotella T6 is a better oil in practically every way than the oil they are recomending.

Their recomended oil is a High SAPS ( Sulphated Ash, Phosphate Sulphur ) oil that will ruin a DPF and emission equipment. Rotella isn't, it's low ash. Cleaning a turbo is a hell of a lot easier than a DPF replacement.
 

WXman

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Rotella T6 is a better oil in practically every way than the oil they are recomending.

Their recomended oil is a High SAPS ( Sulphated Ash, Phosphate Sulphur ) oil that will ruin a DPF and emission equipment. Rotella isn't, it's low ash. Cleaning a turbo is a hell of a lot easier than a DPF replacement.

And the funny thing about it is that FCA engineers have stated that the switch from Rotella to European MS-12991 oils was because the new spec is healthier for the DPF and emissions equipment, whereas Rotella T6 was developed long before any of this equipment was installed on diesel vehicles.

It's enough to make a guy's head swim.
 

Mchurch52

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Rotella T6 is a great oil. On a brand new truck, one oil cycle with T6 isn't going to cause immidiate harm. With how much oil and filter changes cost on these, I would keep running T6 and make the correction on all future oil changes.
Thanks, good info. Makes me wonder what changed with the turbos between last generation and the Gen 3 that now all of a sudden T6 can cause coking. I'm assuming that as long as I follow Ram's turbo cool down guidance in the manual that I can minimize any coking that may occur after working the engine hard (2-2 1/2 minutes of idle time before shutting down).
 

Aseras

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Thanks, good info. Makes me wonder what changed with the turbos between last generation and the Gen 3 that now all of a sudden T6 can cause coking. I'm assuming that as long as I follow Ram's turbo cool down guidance in the manual that I can minimize any coking that may occur after working the engine hard (2-2 1/2 minutes of idle time before shutting down).
Coking is usually caused by oil being overheated going through the turbo and getting past seals.

On the gen3 to fix the EGR soot intake choking issue, the EGR now pulls post DPF. This now chnages the dynamic of the engine and exhaust more and probably is the issue, but who knows. It's some BS emission change and likely has nothing to do with the oil itself at all. ms-12991 will cause DPF issues. This is scientific fact unless they made some magic new DPF and emissions system no one else has been able to.

The real solution to turbo coking is frequent oil changes. This keeps the oil from breaking down and causing issues. On a diesel where especially with ULSD or especially biodiesel where fuel dilution of the oil is a big issue 10k oil changes are NOT a good idea. 3k with the cheapest crap oil from wal mart would do you better long term IMHO.
 

Mchurch52

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So the dealer contacted me today, said they heard from FCA and they’ll be swapping my oil out for the MOPAR MS-12991. I knew my dealer would make it right, I just wonder how many other Ecodiesels are out there with Rotella because neither the owner nor the dealer has a clue that the oil specs changed.
 

Sascwatch

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So the dealer contacted me today, said they heard from FCA and they’ll be swapping my oil out for the MOPAR MS-12991. I knew my dealer would make it right, I just wonder how many other Ecodiesels are out there with Rotella because neither the owner nor the dealer has a clue that the oil specs changed.

It’s good to hear that they are making things right, it took several phone agents and contact with higher ups in the engineering department at FCA Canada before they got this mistake sorted out up here in the north. Dealers on the other hand tell me that whoever told me pennzoil euro is the correct oil is out of their mind, time will tell I guess.

Rotella is an awesome oil, so there must be something we don’t know that the engineers do as to why they don’t want it used.
 

EugeneYYZ

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Rotella T6 is a better oil in practically every way than the oil they are recomending.

Their recomended oil is a High SAPS ( Sulphated Ash, Phosphate Sulphur ) oil that will ruin a DPF and emission equipment. Rotella isn't, it's low ash. Cleaning a turbo is a hell of a lot easier than a DPF replacement.
all my oilchanges were done with rotella T6 5/40 , every 6500 km , on 72000km engine was failed .
 

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