Well, it’s broken:(

[MontFla]

Sorry this happened to you. Just a thought… I always carry a spade and snow shovel in my truck. I lived in MT for 35 years and had lots of snow. I only remember using 4-lo a few times. I moved to Florida 3 years ago and just took the snow shovel out lol!! The situation you were in would have been easily conquered in 4 high!! And you did not mis use the truck. Just make life easy and start with 4 high and it will get you out of most situations. Remember plow in straight lines!!! Hopefully this ends well!

 

[CalvinC]

I know the OP and most on the thread know the is, but just to be clear since some are flirting with this idea:

4Lo has nothing to do with traction (no benefit over 4Hi) but everything to do with hearing.

So a 2.64:1 gear reduction in 4lo sends 2.64 times the torque to your driveshafts and differentials.

2.64x the stress.

2.64x worse binding for parts.

2.64x the opportunity to blow crap up over 4Hi.

 

[ferraiolo1]

It’s the only gear position that allows tc and stability track to be permanently off.

And allows the rear locker to be engaged up to 40mph vs 25.

So yeah it can improve traction in certain scenarios.


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[NorthStar]

4Lo has nothing to do with traction (no benefit over 4Hi) but everything to do with hearing.

Not that this is necessarily related to the shaft failure (who knows at this point) but that is an inaccurate statement and anyone who has read an owner's manual or been properly trained in utilization of a 4WD system knows it.

4Lo provides maximum traction and power to the wheels - period. It should only be utilized in certain conditions that 4Hi may not provide the required traction or power to the wheels.

Read your Ram Manual
Four-Wheel Drive Low Range (4WD LOW) — This range provides low speed four-wheel drive. It maximizes torque (increased torque over 4WD HIGH) to the front driveshaft; allowing front and rear wheels to rotate at the same speed. This range provides additional traction and maximum pulling power for loose or slippery road surfaces only. Do not exceed 25 mph (40 km/h) in this range.

Read any Website*
What is the difference between 4-Hi and 4-Low and when should you use it? 4-Hi propels all 4 wheels and should be engaged when the driving surface becomes slippery and the risk of losing traction on your wheels increases. 4-Low utilizes low-range gear ratios in the transfer box for optimum traction and power usability.

Ask any long term 4WD owner, mudbogger, hunter, or anyone who has operated a 4WD for more than a couple of winters (or a couple of years offroading) and they will tell you the same thing...

* https://4wheeldriveguide.com/the-difference-between-4wd-hi-and-4wd-low-fully-explained/

 

[Seadoorxpguy]

Sounds like you better start looking at the Massachusetts lemon law. I had to use it for a Alfa Romeo I had a few years back.

 

[jimothy]

4Lo has nothing to do with traction (no benefit over 4Hi) but everything to do with hearing.

Hearing? Was that a typo? I’m not trying to be a smart a**, just trying to understand what you mean. What does 4 low have to do with hearing?

 

[tsbbartholomew1]

Hearing? Was that a typo? I’m not trying to be a smart a**, just trying to understand what you mean. What does 4 low have to do with hearing?

Think he meant gearing

 

[jimothy]

Think he meant gearing

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. It’s early and I haven’t been properly caffeinated yet, or I might have figured that out on my own.

 

[HEMIJAKE]

Sounds like you better start looking at the Massachusetts lemon law. I had to use it for a Alfa Romeo I had a few years back.

That was my thought as well. The fact that it is taking forever to get parts nowadays may actually work in his favor.

 

[Seadoorxpguy]

This is right from mass.gov​

Steps to start the process​

Step 1) A reasonable number of repair attempts​

You must allow the selling dealer, a dealer that the manufacturer authorizes, or the manufacturer a reasonable number of attempts to repair the defect. The law defines a reasonable number of repairs as 3 times for the same defect. If the problem is still present after 3 or more repair attempts within 1 year or 15,000 miles of the original date of delivery of the car — whichever comes first — then you can move onto Step 2.
Please note: If your car is out of service during repair attempts for 15 or more business days, that also meets the requirement, even if there aren’t 3 separate repair attempts. Under this law, a business day is any day the service department of an authorized dealer is open for business.

 

[LouNY]

To all who are claiming more traction from 4 Lo compared to 4 Hi, BULL.
Also, I don't care if you are at full lock on your steering and engage 4wd and apply power there is no locker in the front
and the most you can do is spin one tire on pavement. Any differential that can't take that needs to be blown apart
and repaired correctly.
As far as using Lo4 you can use it anytime you wish for a lower gearing then 1st or reverse gives you it's especially nice for backing up trailers,
yes on hard gravel or pavement you will feel the front axle jumping and binding a bit till a tire slips.
These things are not built from egg shells or porcelain if they are lets break all of the danged things till better replacements show up.
In the OP the use of the rear locker had nothing to do with the front axle. I have engaged mine several times in several modes,
from 2wd to 4 Hi and 4Lo.

 

[NorthStar]

To all who are claiming more traction from 4 Lo compared to 4 Hi, BULL.
Also, I don't care if you are at full lock on your steering and engage 4wd and apply power there is no locker in the front
and the most you can do is spin one tire on pavement. Any differential that can't take that needs to be blown apart
and repaired correctly.
As far as using Lo4 you can use it anytime you wish for a lower gearing then 1st or reverse gives you it's especially nice for backing up trailers,
yes on hard gravel or pavement you will feel the front axle jumping and binding a bit till a tire slips.
These things are not built from egg shells or porcelain if they are lets break all of the danged things till better replacements show up.
In the OP the use of the rear locker had nothing to do with the front axle. I have engaged mine several times in several modes,
from 2wd to 4 Hi and 4Lo.

And I’ll bet you’re one of the guys hauling a$$ down the freeway at 65 mph in 4Lo wondering why it is so loud in the cab…just before the t-case grenades.

 

[AngelPhoenix]

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. It’s early and I haven’t been properly caffeinated yet, or I might have figured that out on my own.

Bruh, you should know better than to speak to other humans, even digitally, before proper caffination! You some kind of maniac??

 

[Shots]

......So yeah it can improve traction in certain scenarios.

....Read your Ram Manual
.... This range provides additional traction ......

To all who are claiming more traction from 4 Lo compared to 4 Hi, BULL.

I think what we're seeing here is a different interpretation of what is meant or said
A tire (rubber) only has a certain amount of friction with which it can propel the vehicle forward or stop it once it's moving over a given surface (snow). This is commonly interpreted as "traction" but I think "grip" is a better word to use.
That coefficient of friction, or Mu, has been tested for various surfaces by many people (SAE, Northwester University, and many others). It is static and it can't be "improved" by engaging 4wd, adding weight, etc. Basically rubber only has so much grip on a given surface.
So why does shifting to 4HI/4LO make a noticeable difference? Because you're improving the employment of power. If you've got 1 wheel driving the vehicle and it exceeds Mu, it spins/slides. If you have 4 wheels driving and 1 exceeds Mu, it will spin/slide, but the other 3 can still propel the vehicle forward. You've improved the use of power.

FCA isn't stupid when it comes to marketing. If you look at the definition of "traction" it has several, but you'll see one say "the drawing of a vehicle by motive power ~ also : the motive power employed . So if you have improved the employment of motive power by engaging 4 wheels instead of 1 you have, by definition "improved traction."

That's a bit misleading, but not untrue. You can't improve the grip a given tire has on the snow. You can only improve how the grip is applied through use of 4wd and traction control. These are very effective systems and technically improve traction. But if you're interpreting "traction" as how much grip a given tire has on a given surface, you can't improve that Mu value. So I think both statements are accurate depending on how traction is interpreted.

 

[tsbbartholomew1]

So what was the ultimate outcome at the dealer yesterday. Are they going to take responsibility?

 

[Vinnie.]

I think what we're seeing here is a different interpretation of what is meant or said
A tire (rubber) only has a certain amount of friction with which it can propel the vehicle forward or stop it once it's moving over a given surface (snow). This is commonly interpreted as "traction" but I think "grip" is a better word to use.
That coefficient of friction, or Mu, has been tested for various surfaces by many people (SAE, Northwester University, and many others). It is static and it can't be "improved" by engaging 4wd, adding weight, etc. Basically rubber only has so much grip on a given surface.
So why does shifting to 4HI/4LO make a noticeable difference? Because you're improving the employment of power. If you've got 1 wheel driving the vehicle and it exceeds Mu, it spins/slides. If you have 4 wheels driving and 1 exceeds Mu, it will spin/slide, but the other 3 can still propel the vehicle forward. You've improved the use of power.

FCA isn't stupid when it comes to marketing. If you look at the definition of "traction" it has several, but you'll see one say "the drawing of a vehicle by motive power ~ also : the motive power employed . So if you have improved the employment of motive power by engaging 4 wheels instead of 1 you have, by definition "improved traction."

That's a bit misleading, but not untrue. You can't improve the grip a given tire has on the snow. You can only improve how the grip is applied through use of 4wd and traction control. These are very effective systems and technically improve traction. But if you're interpreting "traction" as how much grip a given tire has on a given surface, you can't improve that Mu value. So I think both statements are accurate depending on how traction is interpreted.

not that any of this matters but I think what we would be looking for is the friction force. the coefficient of (static) friction has little to do since it's the same for the rubber in all cases, but the friction force CAN be increased if we increase the normal force (i.e. adding weight). again, this thread has diverged greatly from the fact that the dealer should replace this!

 

[ferraiolo1]

I think what we're seeing here is a different interpretation of what is meant or said
A tire (rubber) only has a certain amount of friction with which it can propel the vehicle forward or stop it once it's moving over a given surface (snow). This is commonly interpreted as "traction" but I think "grip" is a better word to use.
That coefficient of friction, or Mu, has been tested for various surfaces by many people (SAE, Northwester University, and many others). It is static and it can't be "improved" by engaging 4wd, adding weight, etc. Basically rubber only has so much grip on a given surface.
So why does shifting to 4HI/4LO make a noticeable difference? Because you're improving the employment of power. If you've got 1 wheel driving the vehicle and it exceeds Mu, it spins/slides. If you have 4 wheels driving and 1 exceeds Mu, it will spin/slide, but the other 3 can still propel the vehicle forward. You've improved the use of power.

FCA isn't stupid when it comes to marketing. If you look at the definition of "traction" it has several, but you'll see one say "the drawing of a vehicle by motive power ~ also : the motive power employed . So if you have improved the employment of motive power by engaging 4 wheels instead of 1 you have, by definition "improved traction."

That's a bit misleading, but not untrue. You can't improve the grip a given tire has on the snow. You can only improve how the grip is applied through use of 4wd and traction control. These are very effective systems and technically improve traction. But if you're interpreting "traction" as how much grip a given tire has on a given surface, you can't improve that Mu value. So I think both statements are accurate depending on how traction is interpreted.

You missed the part in my post where 4low turns off all the Nannies this truck has.


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[CalvinC]

That coefficient of friction, or Mu, has been tested for various surfaces by many people (SAE, Northwester University, and many others). It is static…

Oh snap, someone dropped the mu bomb. Now it’s a party!!

Sorry folks, wasn’t trying to derail the post or be difficult. Still think the OPs issue was a defect not something he did wrong, just speculating on how he might have accelerated the defect discovery process.

This 4lo vs 4Hi debate just cuts to the core of my OCD. I’ll tolerate plenty of misinformation out there, but this just won’t do….

As the post above suggests, getting better grip means getting more tires in on the job.

Too many folks think 4lo affects how power is routed front to back or side to side. It doesn’t.
Routing of power is same as 4Hi.

So if you have open diffs at both ends, you are driving 2 of 4 wheels only in either mode.

Extrapolate from there based on if you have a rear limited slip or locking differential, which independently function the same in 2wd (I think Ram computers let you engage locker in 2wd? Other makes do.), 4Hi or 4lo.

What’s happening at the front diff is always 1wd in either 4WD mode.

I’m speaking this far purely mechanically of the components in the truck’s driveline.

What I think muddies the water for folks are the computer Nannie’s and brake based traction systems.

How those systems behave and intervene may vary based on selected 4WD mode. Not an expert on Rams yet, but on fords the Brake eLSD operates in 4Hi but not in 4lo. So in that example you’ve actually got less traction aids in 4lo.

The one exception to the traction debate I’ll further muddy the water with is I have experienced 4lo to be the better mode for descending very steep, slick (snowy) conditions. But this is due imo to how engine braking coupled with the low gearing provides a much more controlled management of wheel speed over manually working the brakes. As long as the tires keep rolling up to Mu you are in good shape. But if you lock them up with the brakes and exceed Mu, you’re in trouble, and are now are skiing instead of driving.

Ok phew… I think I’ll be able to move on with my day now. Sorry for being pedantic.

 

[LouNY]

And I’ll bet you’re one of the guys hauling a$$ down the freeway at 65 mph in 4Lo wondering why it is so loud in the cab…just before the t-case grenades.

Nope, besides which it would be the engine not the t-case that would go.
I will say that I would not be surprised if I have driven more miles in more different 4 wd vehicles then you have.
That would include truck pulling and mud racing in my younger years plus a few decades of off roading for pleasure,
as well as having to use 4wd's to get to work many places.

 

[NorthStar]

Nope, besides which it would be the engine not the t-case that would go.
I will say that I would not be surprised if I have driven more miles in more different 4 wd vehicles then you have.
That would include truck pulling and mud racing in my younger years plus a few decades of off roading for pleasure,
as well as having to use 4wd's to get to work many places.

Aww, cute…trying to pull out the “Mine’s bigger than yours”…. . What a joke!

I’ll play…I grew up in Alaska for 48 years of my life and have driven 4WD’s all my life in real winter long snow, black ice and assorted conditions on the tundra…not that light dusting you get in New York for a month or two. Your turn Scooter!