Towing: Will the 1500 meet my needs or am I waiting for the 2500.

[devildodge]

Made 2 camping trips. LOVE the 392 HEMI.

Still interested in a REBEL, but the 8 foot bed is life changing, so a 1500 is out of tow rig competition indefinitely.

Wife will need a new vehicle soon...maybe she will get us a 1500 lol

 

[jeffmc306]

We picked up our new Airstream 27’ Globetrotter using a Blue Ox SwayPro WD hitch. It towed fine but payload is an issue. Took it to the CAT scales and we’re 220# over the rear axle max of 4000# 4100#. Airstreams typically run 12-13% tongue wt. We’ve got a second AC and two solar panels and actual tongue wt. is a little over 1000#. Working with dealer on resolution to payload issue as they stated payload was 1840# at time of signing deal. Stay tuned...

 

[Zeronet]

We picked up our new Airstream 27’ Globetrotter using a Blue Ox SwayPro WD hitch. It towed fine but payload is an issue. Took it to the CAT scales and we’re 220# over the rear axle max of 4000#. Airstreams typically run 12-13% tongue wt. We’ve got a second AC and two solar panels and actual tongue wt. is a little over 1000#. Working with dealer on resolution to payload issue as they stated payload was 1840# at time of signing deal. Stay tuned... View attachment 24271 View attachment 24272

The rear axle on your 4x4 should be rated at 4100 not the 4000 you mentioned.

Is that 1000lb tongue weight empty or fully loaded for camping?

Do you have air suspension?

Do you have the 1000 bars or 1500lb bars on your Blue Ox? The 1500 bars may help you transfer more weight off the rear axle but with your 1220 payload capacity you will still be way over on payload.

 

[Gondul]

We picked up our new Airstream 27’ Globetrotter using a Blue Ox SwayPro WD hitch. It towed fine but payload is an issue. Took it to the CAT scales and we’re 220# over the rear axle max of 4000#. Airstreams typically run 12-13% tongue wt. We’ve got a second AC and two solar panels and actual tongue wt. is a little over 1000#. Working with dealer on resolution to payload issue as they stated payload was 1840# at time of signing deal. Stay tuned...

Sorry to hear that the 1500 isn't going to work for you, having run the numbers myself I kinda figured you'd be over, I was over and I have 100 more pounds to play with on the 1500. After a hard conversation, we went ahead and ordered a 2500 through a different dealer and it should be delivered in the next couple of weeks.

Is that 1000lb tongue weight empty or fully loaded for camping?

Dry hitch weight on the 27 Globetrotter is either 820# or 882# depending on it is a queen or twin bed setup, so it will only go up from there...

 

[jeffmc306]

The rear axle on your 4x4 should be rated at 4100 not the 4000 you mentioned.

Is that 1000lb tongue weight empty or fully loaded for camping?

Do you have air suspension?

Do you have the 1000 bars or 1500lb bars on your Blue Ox? The 1500 bars may help you transfer more weight off the rear axle but with your 1220 payload capacity you will still be way over on payload.

Zeronet, you are correct - it’s 4100# (I knew that but typed 4000 by mistake). No air suspension, just coils. Air would have decreased the payload even more.

That 1000# tongue weight is not fully loaded but does include full propane tanks (2x30 lbs.). However, since it’s a front bed model I expect most of the additional weight to be closer to the axles.

We may have to go to the 1500# WD bars but I worry about making the connection so rigid it affects the trailer/ride. Some owners report popping rivets on their Airstream if the WD is too tight & trailer tire pressures at 80# max. I have another link or two to adjust on the Blue Ox to play with.

One interesting observation: There’s a post over on the Airstream Forum by a Ram 1500 Big Horn owner and 27’ Airstream Flying Cloud (similar trailer). I believe he said his payload was over 1600#, using a Blue Ox with 1000# bars and his rear axle numbers are almost identical to mine. That makes me wonder how accurate the door sticker payload numbers are if mine is 400# less than his.

 

[jeffmc306]

Sorry to hear that the 1500 isn't going to work for you, having run the numbers myself I kinda figured you'd be over, I was over and I have 100 more pounds to play with on the 1500. After a hard conversation, we went ahead and ordered a 2500 through a different dealer and it should be delivered in the next couple of weeks.



Dry hitch weight on the 27 Globetrotter is either 820# or 882# depending on it is a queen or twin bed setup, so it will only go up from there...

Gondul, I am envious of your good fortune to make a deal to trade up to a 2500. Since we leased we’re at the mercy of Ram Corporate / the dealer.

Our salesperson continues to be an advocate to get it resolved (buy back?) for two reasons. #1. He used their Ram Config Tools to locate our truck based on our trailer’s 7600# max & 1000# tongue wt. He had to “fudge” the additional payload to make up the tool’s 10% factor (uses 760# by default).

After all of that, it came back with 1840# for our truck. It was on another dealer’s lot so neither of us could check the door sticker before closing the deal. Two weeks after delivery I discovered the 1220# door sticker and let him know immediately. We agreed to wait until we had the trailer and scale data hoping for better news.

He wants to get to the bottom of it because the Ram tool has an obvious flaw if it’s calculating a higher payload than the actual door sticker for all the dealers.

Reason #2: His personal reputation. When we signed the deal he presented the 1840# payload as what our truck would have. At a sticker price of $63,300 money wasn’t the issue. Had I known the payload was 1220 I would have bought a 2500 on the spot.

In summary, we agreed to purchase (lease) the truck with 1840# payload but ended up with 1220#. That’s not right in my opinion and Ram Corp \ the dealer need to make it right. Yes, I know I should not have taken his word and should have checked the door sticker before we took delivery. 20/20 vision is perfect...

 

[Zeronet]

Zeronet, you are correct - it’s 4100# (I knew that but typed 4000 by mistake). No air suspension, just coils. Air would have decreased the payload even more.

That 1000# tongue weight is not fully loaded but does include full propane tanks (2x30 lbs.). However, since it’s a front bed model I expect most of the additional weight to be closer to the axles.

We may have to go to the 1500# WD bars but I worry about making the connection so rigid it affects the trailer/ride. Some owners report popping rivets on their Airstream if the WD is too tight & trailer tire pressures at 80# max. I have another link or two to adjust on the Blue Ox to play with.

One interesting observation: There’s a post over on the Airstream Forum by a Ram 1500 Big Horn owner and 27’ Airstream Flying Cloud (similar trailer). I believe he said his payload was over 1600#, using a Blue Ox with 1000# bars and his rear axle numbers are almost identical to mine. That makes me wonder how accurate the door sticker payload numbers are if mine is 400# less than his.

On your concerns with the 1500 bars, One of the good things about the Blue Ox is that the bars flex like a spring. They’re not rigid like some of the others. If you’re even close to 1000 tongue weight the 1500s would be the correct bar anyway. I find the ride is even better with the 1500 bars. I recommend you try that if you are unable to trade up to a 2500 truck. A 2500 truck is really your best option if you can swing it.

The payload stickers have proven to be pretty accurate. There’s one sure way to tell as you probably know...fill your fuel tank and put the truck alone on the CAT scale. Subtract that weight from 7100 GVWR and the result is your remaining payload.

You’ll get it resolved one way or another.

 

[Gondul]

Gondul, I am envious of your good fortune to make a deal to trade up to a 2500. Since we leased we’re at the mercy of Ram Corporate / the dealer.

In summary, we agreed to purchase (lease) the truck with 1840# payload but ended up with 1220#. That’s not right in my opinion and Ram Corp \ the dealer need to make it right. Yes, I know I should not have taken his word and should have checked the door sticker before we took delivery. 20/20 vision is perfect...

Not sure I'd call it good fortune... I've never leased a vehicle and have never had an interest in doing so... I'm happy to pay it off quickly and run it for 10-15yrs.

The good thing is that it sounds like the dealer is wanting to work with you on a resolution and I hope you have the best of luck in getting this resolved in a manner that works out well for you.

As far as reported numbers I see the problem as twofold... the first is that all manufacturers post a certain number for their truck, whether it be payload, towing, or MPG. However those numbers are based on a very specific trim, likely with minimal options... the manufacturer does not do a great job of making that very clear in promotional ads (check the asterisk and/or fine print). Hell, even the MOPAR site is incorrect... when I input my VIN it tells me my payload is 1840# when in reality according to the sticker it is 1310#.

The second is that consumers/dealers presume what they are being told is correct and really don't dig into the details. The vast majority of the public really doesn't tow large/heavy objects and 90% of the time it is likely not an issue; but in certain cases it is a huge problem with vehicle being operated at or over their published specs.

While I am also trading out my Limited, unlike your situation where you got the truck specifically for the TT, our conversation of getting a TT didn't occur until after we got the truck... it wasn't something either of us had considered getting before.

 

[Cmerkert]

Anyone know if the Over Payload message and the disabling of the air suspension can be deactivated. When first setting up my trailer and playing with the WD bars and ball angle, the tongue weight alone tripped the air suspension with the over payload message, and this was just the tongue weight, which is no way over 1280 lbs. Anyone try hooking up trailers in the Off Road 1 or Off Road 2 air suspension heights. The manual and others state to put it in Jack mode (turns off air suspension) then once the trailer is hooked up, turn Jack mode off. But in some situations the air suspension does not come on but instead stays locked out. Was wondering if this could be avoided. My '13 Avalanche always had its auto air suspension bags inflate, which would reduce the squat a lot. The Ram was locked out, so even though it squatted less, it did not raise it even more like I had hoped.

 

[Gondul]

Anyone know if the Over Payload message and the disabling of the air suspension can be deactivated. When first setting up my trailer and playing with the WD bars and ball angle, the tongue weight alone tripped the air suspension with the over payload message, and this was just the tongue weight, which is no way over 1280 lbs. Anyone try hooking up trailers in the Off Road 1 or Off Road 2 air suspension heights. The manual and others state to put it in Jack mode (turns off air suspension) then once the trailer is hooked up, turn Jack mode off. But in some situations the air suspension does not come on but instead stays locked out. Was wondering if this could be avoided. My '13 Avalanche always had its auto air suspension bags inflate, which would reduce the squat a lot. The Ram was locked out, so even though it squatted less, it did not raise it even more like I had hoped.

I don't see anywhere stated that it can be disabled... not trying to be an ***, but are you following the instructions as stated starting on page 405 in the Manual on how to set up the WD hitch? If you are, then it sounds like you need a trip to the dealer...

 

[Johnvan]

This video might be useful for someone on the fence.

 

[Gondul]

1999 vs 2019... really? He couldn't find a new 2500 anywhere to give a better review?
Sorry, but this video is about useless...

 

[Johnvan]

Did you watch it? He mentions the new 2500 a lot as well. There's often a lot of discussion on the forums about how the new half tons are just as capable as older 3/4 tons. His videos are quite good actually.

 

[Gondul]

I did watch it.. he compared a 20 year old truck to a brand new truck, how can the 2019 *not* be better than a truck from 1999?

He could have looked at the 6.7 in the 2019 2500, but honestly, the added weight of the 6.7 eats significantly into payload making the 3500 a much better option for that engine.

A better comparison should have been a new 2019 2500 (rather than a 20 yr old truck)... specifically the 6.4 with the ZF8, which also has coil/link suspension and an option air assist for the raising/lowering the rear, along with the same driver safety devices as the 1500.

 

[Johnvan]

I

I did watch it.. he compared a 20 year old truck to a brand new truck, how can the 2019 *not* be better than a truck from 1999?

He could have looked at the 6.7 in the 2019 2500, but honestly, the added weight of the 6.7 eats significantly into payload making the 3500 a much better option for that engine.

A better comparison should have been a new 2019 2500 (rather than a 20 yr old truck)... specifically the 6.4 with the ZF8, which also has coil/link suspension and an option air assist for the raising/lowering the rear, along with the same driver safety devices as the 1500.

The video was for the guys with an old 2500 that are debating whether or not a new 1500 will be a direct replacement or they need to get another 2500. Exactly what this thread is about, that's why I posted it.

 

[devildodge]

This video might be useful for someone on the fence.

This is exactly the comparison that started this thread. Except mine is a bit closer. 99 V10 5 speed. And my conclusion was, payload still decides that the 2500 is more suitable for my needs.

The tow rating is pretty close...but there are very few 1500 trucks that can get to the tow rating, while the 99 2500 easily gets to that tie rating.
Really, this comparison makes me feel very good about my 488 Magnum. A 20 year old truck that still is competitive with the new ones.

But, yeah, the new 2500 RAM trucks make my 99 look like a joke.

My 2015 makes the 2013 we had look like a joke. And the 2019 with 8 speed would definitely solve my issue with the large gap between 1st 2nd and 3rd on the 66RFE

 

[devildodge]

He hit two very key points.

IF, YOU bumper pull and are an owner of a 2nd or 3rd Gen Dodge Ram, AND plan to tow the same with minimal payload...the 2019 RAM 1500 will be better, but that is obvious.

If you are going for a better overall experience from a 4th Gen 2500...not gonna happen, unless you are looking for a better ride or a bigger safer cab.

And if you are comparing a 2019 1500 and 2500...it still boils down to if you haul while you tow.

Good times to be in the market for a truck as you can have your cake and eat it too...if you know exactly what is most important

 

[Jus Cruisin]

My feeling is a 1500 is fine towing boats (maybe to 26' or so) and car trailers up to 24'. I just towed my 20' v-nose enclosed car trailer 1200 miles last Thursday. Ran from Florida to Michigan. No mountains on that route. The truck handled fine. Drove through some big winds going through a cold front in Tennessee and it was plenty stable. Never really needed to even two hand the steering wheel. Would i use a 1500 to pull a travel trailer? No, because they always are nose heavy.

 

[Gondul]

The video was for the guys with an old 2500 that are debating whether or not a new 1500 will be a direct replacement or they need to get another 2500. Exactly what this thread is about, that's why I posted it.

I kinda see where you are going and @devildodge said it well.

In as much as my Limited is a utterly fantastic ride, the payload at 1310# is pitiful. I will say that discussion about a travel trailer didn't happen until *after* we had the 1500 as it was not something we ever discussed considered.

The Limited is likely more than capable of towing the TT my wife likes at a GVWR of 8800# however the tongue weight is 900#... add 200# for a topper and that leaves 200# for two people and gear.... not gonna happen... so here I sit waiting for my 2500 to (hopefully) arrive this week.

 

[devildodge]

As I still wait for the next Gen HeavyDuty to truly get the full update...i saw a REBEL on a used lot last night. Man...i would like to have a REBEL.

SO, I came back to this thread to see if anything changed.

First and foremost...the configurator tow numbers are still not correct for a specific truck. BUT, they did fix the VIN look up...sort of.

The payload is now spot on...but the max towing is extremely mis leading. They are just taking curb weight from the gross combined weight rating and giving that number...no allowance for passengers, hitch, tongue weight and cargo. The number they list is the total amount you could add.

Before they fixed the payload part...the towing was close.

It gave an allowance for driver/passenger @ 300lbs, 70 to 90 lbs for hitch and a 10% tongue weight.

Of course, for anyone camping, this number was not attainable as moat take a family and a camper will have 12 to 15% tongue weight.

Will be back in awhile to compare a used REBEL to my current RAM HeftyDuty