Towing: Will the 1500 meet my needs or am I waiting for the 2500.

[devildodge]

Well, as noted in many of my posts I am completly smitten by the new Ram 1500 and especially the Rebel. Unfortunately for the 1500 I do alot of heavy hauling and towing. But after seeing @Ksilva211 tow with his, I became more impressed.

Well, here in the wonderful state of Pennsylvania we have noticed a crackdown on the travel trailer hauler as trucks start to push CDL licensing weights.(I fortunately have my CDL) And they also seem to see it as a money making scheme for people that are under registered for weight class.

So, for weeks now I have been considering this and have been compiling information to help or hinder my decision making.

Will be adding info and thoughts as they pop into my head to keep me inline for my decision.

 

[devildodge]

First thing is, What is SAE J2807?

Well, the information on SAE website comes at a 78 dollar price tag so I found this over view:

Here are the main test methods trucks would be measured on as per J2807:

• Cooling capability on a long highway upgrade modeled on the Davis Dam grade on Arizona SR 68;
• Launch and acceleration performance on a level road and a 12 percent upgrade;
• Combined handling performance – understeer and trailer sway;
• Combined braking performance – stopping distance and parking brake-hold on grade; and
• Structural performance for the vehicle and hitch or hitch receiver.

New calculations for trailer weight ratings: In addition to the performance standards, SAE J2807 also uses a specific set of assumptions to calculate maximum trailer weight ratings:

• For light-duty full-size pickups (GVWR < 8,500 lbs.), SAE J2807 assumes that the tow vehicle includes any options with higher than 33 percent penetration;
• It assumes there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds;
• It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable); and
• For conventional trailer towing, SAE J2807 assumes that 10 percent of the trailer weight is on the tongue.

So to start off my process I factor in that I weigh 285 pounds dressed for hauling and that only gives me a passenger allowance of 15 pounds...not a good start lol.

 

[devildodge]

<h3>What are the Different Hitch Classes?</h3>
Class I

1. Class I hitches are weight carrying (WC) hitches rated up to 2000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 200 lbs.
2. A Class I hitch usually has a 1-1/4" square receiver opening.
3. A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch.
4. Class I hitches usually attach to the bumper, truck pan or vehicle frame.

Class II

1. Class II hitches are weight carrying (WC) hitches rated up to 3500 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 300 lbs.
2. A Class II hitch usually has a 1-1/4" square receiver opening.
3. A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch.
4. Class II hitches usually attach to the bumper or vehicle frame.

Class III

1. Class III hitches are weight carrying (WC) and also are weight distributing (WD) depending on the vehicle and hitch specifications.
2. Not all Class III hitches are rated to be both. See the specific hitch for that information.
3. Class III hitches used as weight carrying are rated up to 6000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 600 lbs.
4. Class III hitches used for weight distributing are rated up to 10,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1000 lbs.
5. A Class III hitch usually has a 2" square receiver opening.
6. A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch. To use this class of hitch for weight distribution requires a weight distribution system.
7. Class III hitches attach to the vehicle frame only.

Class IV

1. Class IV hitches are weight carrying (WC) and weight distributing (WD) hitches depending on the vehicle and hitch specifications.
2. Not all Class IV hitches are rated to be both. See the specific hitch for that information.
3. Class IV hitches used as weight carrying are rated up to 10,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1000 lbs.
4. Class IV hitches used for weight distributing are rated up to 14,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1400 lbs.
5. A Class IV hitch usually has a 2" square receiver opening.
6. A higher class drawbar does not increase the towing capacity of the hitch. To use this class of hitch for weight distribution requires a weight distribution system.
7. Class IV hitches attach to the vehicle frame only.

Class V

1. Class V hitches are weight carrying (WC) and weight distributing (WD) hitches depending on the vehicle and hitch specifications.
2. Class V hitches used as weight carrying are rated up to 12,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1200 lbs.
3. Class V hitches used for weight distributing are rated up to 17,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1700 lbs.
4. Your ball mount and hitch ball need to both be rated for Class V to safely tow these weight loads. To use this class of hitch for weight distribution requires a weight distribution system.
5. A Class V hitch has a 2-1/2" square receiver opening.
6. Class V hitches attach to the vehicle frame only.

ok, so the Ram 1500 has a class IV.

But this on the Mopar site got me concerned:
(see attachment)

But i quickly realized this wasn't correct, but was baffled as to the hitches they offered only had a 500lb tounge weight and 5000lb capacity.

But, like I said that no longer is a worry, just a little surprise.

 

[2019REBEL]

Wonder where they get 150lbs for driver. Hell I haven't weighed that much since I was 12. I am now 51....
Maybe that is the weight of the crash test dummy

 

[devildodge]

some numbers for tomorrow's contemplating

99 Ram 2500 4x4 V10 Quad cab shortbed

Curb weight 6276
GVWR 8800
GCVWR 19000
trailer 12700
Payload 2524

My trip to the scales...just me and the junk in the truck...6620

Til the morning...

 

[devildodge]

2013 Ram 2500 crew shortbed 6.7 Cummins auto 4x4

Curb weight 7463
GVWR 10000
GCVWR 24000
Trailer 16370
Payload 2537

My trip to scales with me 5 other passengers and our stuff...8170

 

[devildodge]

So, from the advertised curb weight in my truck, myself and some stuff, 344 lbs was added. Now, I cannot find if anything was accounted for with this number on the 99 (like the J2807 gives you 150 for driver passenger and includes 33% of options.

The 2013 says they give 150 lbs for driver and 20 lbs for options.

8170 was with 2 adults, 2 16 year olds, 1 11 year old, and 1 4 year old. So our avg for a passenger was 117 lbs

So that says we had 707 pounds in the cab and if you take the 170 give pounds, we were only into the payload 537lbs.

So to give the rest of the numbers for these to trips to get stone...
99 Dodge Ram...6620 in...with the asked for ton...8590 out
13 Ram...8170 in...with the asked for ton...10150. JUST A WEE BIT OVERLOADED...TRUCK NEVER GROANED.

So that gives me some situational numbers to begin with.

 

[devildodge]

Now, onto the 2019 Ram 1500.

My first choice would be a Rebel. I need a crew cab. Unfortunately Rebel only allows the 5'7" bed.

My second choice would be a tradesman. Crew Cab and 6'4" bed

Off road package

3.92 rear.

thinking I would get the Etorque

but can't get the Ram Box

And all in I would go with no more than a big horn.

So since the capacity charts haven't been done by truck... (remeber J2807: 2 passengers @ 150 each and 33% of options)...I am just going to go with Crew Cab 6'4" bed 4x4 chart. (Remeber also the thread about the tire sticker showing less than advertised payload...this is why)

(see attachment)

 

[devildodge]

2019 Ram 1500 Crew Cab 6'4" bed 4x4 Hemi 3.92 gear

Curb weight 5354
GVWR 7100
GCVWR 17000
trailer 11180
Payload 1750

Note: in Pa class 2 registration is 7000 lbs, so to be legal would have to go class 3 for 100 lbs...that

And I have no real world data yet.

 

[devildodge]

What are my payloads and trailers?

Well day to day we have 5 family members and have decided our avg. Passenger weight is 117lbs.

Hauling I would venture to say 1 ton is all the more I am interested in unloading at one time.

We have 5 kayaks and 5 bikes is our usual funtime haul.

Our current travel trailer weighs in at about 6500lbs...we just looked at one with a GVWR of 10,700(not purchasing one for awhile)

So, this is what I am up against

 

[Rustydodge]

Tow rating numbers will be similar when comparing to older 2500s. With a lighter truck however i think using proper WDH setup is more important (and required if you go by the book).

Payload rating will never be close when comparing to 2500. I have always believed however that payload ratings are pretty conservative for what the truck can handle with rear suspension "enhancements" like timbrens or air bags.

Comes down to how often you'll be towing at the trucks limits IMO..

 

[devildodge]

I figure my builds would fall into the 33% so figure back in the 300lbs and wham...the payload would be 2050lbs.(if my interpretation of the charts is right)

Take the weight of us at 585 lbs and we have a useable payload of 1465lbs...not too bad

Trailer tongue weight of 650 to 700 and that leaves 765 lbs

...I can work with that.

Can't haul a ton of stone with the family

, but I just have to unload less

.

 

[2019REBEL]

Let the family unload it.

 

[Rustydodge]

I have been over trailer tongue rating and official hitch WC rating and probably over the 3900 lb RAWR countless times with my truck without issue at 135k miles and counting so take that for what it's worth.

Biggest hurdle for me will be getting a newer truck and behind afraid to use it. Right now i can climb all over the bed rails and beat on my older truck and not care one bit.

 

[devildodge]

Well here is a thought on payload.

We had a passenger railcar come in with bags of sand in it for weight as it was gutted. They told us we could have as much as we wanted.

Well I did a quick Google and the payload it said was 3300 and at 47.8 pounds per bag I loaded up 70 bags in the bed...stacked real nice didn't even get up above the wheel wells much. Then I loaded 3 bags in the passenger seat and 9 bags on the he back seat... (saw they claimed 150 pounds for passenger...Didn't realize it meant one lol) so that is 82 bags @3920lbs and I knew me and the stuff added 344 lbs so my payload was 4263lbs.

So I was a wee bit overweight. Drove like a Cadillac, smooth as silk...climbed right up the mountain. Drove out through my yard and up over the bank like nothing...no need for 4x4.

Thank God the scales weren't out that day...

. Thank goodness I have since gotten lazy and think more when I do Google searches lol

 

[Mjben1977]

Payload capacity doesn't necessarily mean capability. OEM's take into consideration handling.

 

[devildodge]

Other than the Build and Price, has anyone seen payload and towing for the trims.

And, thoughts on Rebel, other than the skid plates and bigger tires...there shouldn't be any other limiting factor to these Ratings, correct?

Was hoping more people would post there door jamb sticker in that thread, but haven't seen any new ones.

 

[Jared B]

The features guide has payload numbers by body configuration in it but obviously they will also vary by trim level and options load.

 

[Rustydodge]

Other than the Build and Price, has anyone seen payload and towing for the trims.

And, thoughts on Rebel, other than the skid plates and bigger tires...there shouldn't be any other limiting factor to these Ratings, correct?

Was hoping more people would post there door jamb sticker in that thread, but haven't seen any new ones.

You may have to wait for fleet guide to be released which will include all the option weights. Otherwise once you have a VIN you can enter it on the Ram site and it lists payload and towing numbers. I've assumed that since it is based on VIN that includes options weight (or at least 33% of that trims option take rate) which would get you pretty close.

 

[202snowman]

Other than the Build and Price, has anyone seen payload and towing for the trims.

And, thoughts on Rebel, other than the skid plates and bigger tires...there shouldn't be any other limiting factor to these Ratings, correct?

Was hoping more people would post there door jamb sticker in that thread, but haven't seen any new ones.

That would require us to get our damn trucks! lol