REV vs Ramcharger - who would buy a REV?

[Darksteel165]

Hopefully things will change when we get a new administration, and people can just buy the vehicle they want. It’s already pretty evident that trying force people into EVs isn’t working. Ford lost like 4 billion last year and car manufacturers are begging the White House to pull back the regulations they’ve but in place.

Kind of is what it is, it's out of our hands unfortunately.
EVs are 100% the way of the future, but we are not at the future yet.
My great great grandkids will love their hovercar for sure though.

 

[theblet]

Kind of is what it is, it's out of our hands unfortunately.
EVs are 100% the way of the future, but we are not at the future yet.
My great great grandkids will love their hovercar for sure though.

I don’t think they are 100% the way of the future, though it’s one of the options. There are alternative fuel sources for ICE that can be used as well. All of the options require oil in some form or another.

EVs require a lot more precious metals, which are not readily available in the US, and take alot of energy to obtain. So I don’t see EV being the end game for everyone.

 

[StuartV]

I also think any newer, lighter, and faster-charging batteries will come (if they ever materialize) at a premium to recoup R&D expenses.

You think the current batteries aren't already being sold the same way?

At least, in the future, the R&D costs should be getting amortized over a much larger number of expected sales.

I am a technical scuba diver. I am tuned into the market for underwater scooters. What has happened in that market is that scooters used lead acid batteries for years. Then, they started changing over to Li-ion batteries. Now, there are popular scooters that use Dewalt 20V power tool batteries.

And, there are companies making kits and/or doing service to convert older scooters to the newer battery tech. You can change an old lead-acid battery-powered scooter to one with a Li-ion pack. You can use it to drive the original electric motor, or you can even possibly swap in a new motor or just a new electronic motor controller, to make it almost like one of the new modern scooters. And, for some, you can even upgrade them to go from lead-acid or a custom Li-ion to using the Dewalt PTBs.

I would fully expect that in 8 or 10 years, when there is a much bigger market for EVs (including PHEVs, etc. - anything with a big battery pack) that need new batteries, there will be companies out there that can change out your Ramcharger battery pack for one that is newer battery tech retrofitted to work just fine in the Ramcharger. Maybe lighter and smaller. Maybe the same size but with more capacity. And, probably an option to spend more and get the truck's plug-in charging module upgraded to one that will allow faster charging (in combo with your new, upgraded battery pack).

Kind of is what it is, it's out of our hands unfortunately.
EVs are 100% the way of the future, but we are not at the future yet.
My great great grandkids will love their hovercar for sure though.

Why are EVs 100% the way of the future?

Passenger cars are not what I would call dual-purpose vehicles. For them, being an EV probably IS the way of the future. In the future, smaller, lighter batteries, that charge very quickly, will make sense.

But, pickup trucks are genuinely dual-purpose. Sometimes they are just another passenger vehicle. But, sometimes, they are a towing/hauling machine. The power requirements very roughly double, when towing a big, heavy trailer. The weight of the vehicle itself, to be "strong" enough for common towing tasks is also significantly increased over a common passenger car. Right now, OEMs are trying to compensate for that by installing bigger batteries, so they can still have useful range when towing. But, as many have pointed out, that means now you are compromising the non-towing utility by always hauling around all the extra weight of those extra batteries and beefier frame/running gear that you really only need when you're towing.

The energy density of batteries is just not remotely as high as the energy density in diesel fuel.

Just my opinion, but I think the ultimate way of the future will be some percent EV, but also a non-trivial percent of vehicles like (keyword "like", not exactly the same as) the Ramcharger, with an onboard biodiesel (i.e. renewable, sustainable, clean-burning fuel) generator, to handle the requirements of towing/hauling and (bonus) long-distance and off-grid driving.

 

[Darksteel165]

Why are EVs 100% the way of the future?

Passenger cars are not what I would call dual-purpose vehicles. For them, being an EV probably IS the way of the future. In the future, smaller, lighter batteries, that charge very quickly, will make sense.

But, pickup trucks are genuinely dual-purpose. Sometimes they are just another passenger vehicle. But, sometimes, they are a towing/hauling machine. The power requirements very roughly double, when towing a big, heavy trailer. The weight of the vehicle itself, to be "strong" enough for common towing tasks is also significantly increased over a common passenger car. Right now, OEMs are trying to compensate for that by installing bigger batteries, so they can still have useful range when towing. But, as many have pointed out, that means now you are compromising the non-towing utility by always hauling around all the extra weight of those extra batteries and beefier frame/running gear that you really only need when you're towing.

The energy density of batteries is just not remotely as high as the energy density in diesel fuel.

Just my opinion, but I think the ultimate way of the future will be some percent EV, but also a non-trivial percent of vehicles like (keyword "like", not exactly the same as) the Ramcharger, with an onboard biodiesel (i.e. renewable, sustainable, clean-burning fuel) generator, to handle the requirements of towing/hauling and (bonus) long-distance and off-grid driving.

You missed my part about my great great grandchildren.
Batteries have gone a long way.
Remember when corded power tools were the strongest? Now battery powered cordless are stronger.
Or maybe in the 1800s when people would buy ice to keep their "icebox" (refrigerator) cold. I don't see anyone holding on to that old more energy efficient method to cool their fridges.

There will become a point when we can charge a car battery for 400 miles in 15 minutes or less at one point in the future we are just not there.

At one point people were trying to figure out how to replace battery packs on the fly. Image if every EV used a standard size and brand pack and at the "gas" station you would just swap packs, confirm the charge and move on. The old pack could slow charge until the next person came up. Think Blue Rhino propane tanks. The future is limitless but in the current we are restricted by the technology we have. I could get an EV as a 3rd car as a toy because I can't rely on it like I can any regular car\truck in the current world with the technology we have right now. If the push stays like this it will eventually change.

I am not saying we will not be using regular oil based fuel for anything, but for consumers gas will likely be a thing of the past in the very distant future.

 

[Rick3478]

I wonder if frames will start getting sold and then assembled after sales to whatever engine you want, just like getting a crate engine, or a pickup that doesn't come with a bed from the factory.

You'd have to get some of the alphabet bureaucracies to relax their grip on power for that to happen.

 

[Darksteel165]

You'd have to get some of the alphabet bureaucracies to relax their grip on power for that to happen.

Would we though? I don't think there are any laws on buying a frame of a vehicle.
Could have company 1 sell the frame, and company 2 put it together?
Just would need to pass safety testing on the frame wouldn't it?

I'm sure there's more paperwork to it but it's not against the law to change the engine on your vehicle.

 

[SShadow1974]

Depending on price, I will be trading in my 2023 for a RAMCharger.

 

[Rick3478]

I'm sure there's more paperwork to it but it's not against the law to change the engine on your vehicle.

Maybe not, but depending on where you are, it could be against the law to drive it on a public road.

 

[Darksteel165]

Maybe not, but depending on where you are, it could be against the law to drive it on a public road.

Besides California where everything is illegal such as putting on an cold air intake, I don't see how any other state could outlaw a vehicle with an engine swap as long as it's still registered.

 

[Rick3478]

Besides California where everything is illegal such as putting on an cold air intake, I don't see how any other state could outlaw a vehicle with an engine swap as long as it's still registered.

Just for starters, to register it without an engine they would probably assume worst case fleet mileage and charge you the polluter penalty. Then, it's unclear how you would get all the major makers to agree on motor and transmission mounts, driveshaft splines, etc. And then there's the electronics.

Never mind giving people control over their own destiny. The greens and liberals will never accept that. Too much vested interest in grift and power. Self-reliant people are an existential threat to their game plan.

 

[theblet]

Just for starters, to register it without an engine they would probably assume worst case fleet mileage and charge you the polluter penalty. Then, it's unclear how you would get all the major makers to agree on motor and transmission mounts, driveshaft splines, etc. And then there's the electronics.

Never mind giving people control over their own destiny. The greens and liberals will never accept that. Too much vested interest in grift and power. Self-reliant people are an existential threat to their game plan.

Yup. The peasants aren’t allowed the freedom to make their own decisions.

 

[StuartV]

You missed my part about my great great grandchildren.
Batteries have gone a long way.
Remember when corded power tools were the strongest? Now battery powered cordless are stronger.
Or maybe in the 1800s when people would buy ice to keep their "icebox" (refrigerator) cold. I don't see anyone holding on to that old more energy efficient method to cool their fridges.

There will become a point when we can charge a car battery for 400 miles in 15 minutes or less at one point in the future we are just not there.

At one point people were trying to figure out how to replace battery packs on the fly. Image if every EV used a standard size and brand pack and at the "gas" station you would just swap packs, confirm the charge and move on. The old pack could slow charge until the next person came up. Think Blue Rhino propane tanks. The future is limitless but in the current we are restricted by the technology we have. I could get an EV as a 3rd car as a toy because I can't rely on it like I can any regular car\truck in the current world with the technology we have right now. If the push stays like this it will eventually change.

I am not saying we will not be using regular oil based fuel for anything, but for consumers gas will likely be a thing of the past in the very distant future.

I still say EVs are not "100% the way of the future." By the time you're talking about, it will be Mr. Fusion and EVs will be antiques.

 

[Darksteel165]

I still say EVs are not "100% the way of the future." By the time you're talking about, it will be Mr. Fusion and EVs will be antiques.

Fusion will be used to create electricity, thus electric vehicles or EV.
I don't think the term nuclear powered personal vehicles will be a friendly commonly used term.

 

[StuartV]

Fusion will be used to create electricity, thus electric vehicles or EV.
I don't think the term nuclear powered personal vehicles will be a friendly commonly used term.

I can't WAIT to have an NV! I will be the NV of all my friends! LOL

 

[StuartV]

Fusion will be used to create electricity, thus electric vehicles or EV.
I don't think the term nuclear powered personal vehicles will be a friendly commonly used term.

Also... the Ramcharger uses an ICE generator to create electricity. So, is it also an EV?

 

[Willwork4truck]

You think the current batteries aren't already being sold the same way?

At least, in the future, the R&D costs should be getting amortized over a much larger number of expected sales.

I am a technical scuba diver. I am tuned into the market for underwater scooters. What has happened in that market is that scooters used lead acid batteries for years. Then, they started changing over to Li-ion batteries. Now, there are popular scooters that use Dewalt 20V power tool batteries.

And, there are companies making kits and/or doing service to convert older scooters to the newer battery tech. You can change an old lead-acid battery-powered scooter to one with a Li-ion pack. You can use it to drive the original electric motor, or you can even possibly swap in a new motor or just a new electronic motor controller, to make it almost like one of the new modern scooters. And, for some, you can even upgrade them to go from lead-acid or a custom Li-ion to using the Dewalt PTBs.

I would fully expect that in 8 or 10 years, when there is a much bigger market for EVs (including PHEVs, etc. - anything with a big battery pack) that need new batteries, there will be companies out there that can change out your Ramcharger battery pack for one that is newer battery tech retrofitted to work just fine in the Ramcharger. Maybe lighter and smaller. Maybe the same size but with more capacity. And, probably an option to spend more and get the truck's plug-in charging module upgraded to one that will allow faster charging (in combo with your new, upgraded battery pack).



Why are EVs 100% the way of the future?

Passenger cars are not what I would call dual-purpose vehicles. For them, being an EV probably IS the way of the future. In the future, smaller, lighter batteries, that charge very quickly, will make sense.

But, pickup trucks are genuinely dual-purpose. Sometimes they are just another passenger vehicle. But, sometimes, they are a towing/hauling machine. The power requirements very roughly double, when towing a big, heavy trailer. The weight of the vehicle itself, to be "strong" enough for common towing tasks is also significantly increased over a common passenger car. Right now, OEMs are trying to compensate for that by installing bigger batteries, so they can still have useful range when towing. But, as many have pointed out, that means now you are compromising the non-towing utility by always hauling around all the extra weight of those extra batteries and beefier frame/running gear that you really only need when you're towing.

The energy density of batteries is just not remotely as high as the energy density in diesel fuel.

Just my opinion, but I think the ultimate way of the future will be some percent EV, but also a non-trivial percent of vehicles like (keyword "like", not exactly the same as) the Ramcharger, with an onboard biodiesel (i.e. renewable, sustainable, clean-burning fuel) generator, to handle the requirements of towing/hauling and (bonus) long-distance and off-grid driving.

Ok Im an old retard but what in the hell are battery powered “underwater scooters”?

 

[Willwork4truck]

The 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger delivers innovative performance with a liquid-cooled 92 kWh battery pack and is paired with a 3.6-liter V-6 engine on-board 130 kW generator, sending power to a 250-kW front and 238-kW rear EDM. The EDMs combine the motor, gearbox and inverter along with all-wheel-drive capability. I would speculate that when under light load and easy cruising that only one EDM is used, thus reducing battery draw. However under heavy load the draw would out pace the generator I would think. But I guess the brains behind it have that under control.
Will just have wait and see how it all shakes out.

Peeps better get a 7 year Max 0 deductible Mopar warranty with that drivetrain. Can you imagine the cost to repair?

Will the techs even know what to do the first year (2025)?

Remember the forum posts on the early adopters 48v mild hybrid battery pack issues? Yep they have mostly been worked through by now but there was a lot of anxiety and frustration in forum posts back a few years.

I can only imagine what the early adopters will go through with this new drivetrain complexity.

My first year 2015 aluminum bed F150 caused body shops lots of issues due to not being trained up/certified on aluminum. Repair costs went up, insurance costs increased… Nothing like what‘s happening with the EV’s though.
It will all get worked out.

 

[Darksteel165]

Also... the Ramcharger uses an ICE generator to create electricity. So, is it also an EV?

EVs use chargers that are powered by energy created by coal, so is that also an EV?
The Ram charger is a hybrid. It has an regular old engine in it. You can call it a generator if you like but it's literally an 3.6 pentastar. Lip stick on a pig... Still a pig.
It does have electric motors so it's a new kind of hybrid is all.
It can't make the wheels move by the ice engine alone as it only has electric motors. You take the battery out of the ram charger and you can no longer move an inch without getting out and pushing it no matter how much gas you throw into the secondary engine as it can't be used to charge the battery so the electric motors can go.

 

[Jimmy07]

It can't make the wheels move by the ice engine alone as it only had electric motors. You take the battery out of the ram charger and you can no longer move an inch without getting out and pushing it no matter how much gas you throw into the secondary engine as it can't be used to charge the battery so the electric motors can go.

Honest question:
Have you read ANY information on how the generator in the ramcharger is designed to function?

 

[Darksteel165]

Honest question:
Have you read ANY information on how the generator in the ramcharger is designed to function?

Yes, but I have found documents that 100% conflict with each other, and lots that have sales lingo crap which doesn't make sense.