REV vs Ramcharger - who would buy a REV?

[StuartV]

Now that they've announced the Ramcharger, who would buy a REV instead of a Ramcharger?

I mean, if you just want/need a truck for around town, the 145 mile electric-only range in a Ramcharger should be adequate for just about anybody. (but, of course, not EVERYONE, I understand)

And if you are EVER going to use your truck for towing or road trips, why would you choose a pure EV truck, instead of the Ramcharger?

I mean, I guess maybe there are some people who might tow something not that heavy - like a boat - and really just to rivers or lakes or the ocean, which destinations are not that far away from their home. So, the REV's range (whatever it turns out to be while actually towing) is still adequate - for them and their needs.

But, all in all, it seems like the number of people who would actually choose a REV over buying a Ramcharger would be a really small number. Like, to the point of asking if they should even take the REV to production at all.

Yes, there are people now who are buying the F150 Lightning and the Rivian truck. But, none of those people had an option for a truck like the Ramcharger. I speculate that many of those people would have chosen something like the Ramcharger instead, if they had had the option. So, how big is that market REALLY once the Ramcharger is widely available?

In the original announcements of the REV, they talked about offering it in the future with a range-extender option. I was expecting the REV to be a pure EV or an option to order a REV with (probably) a smaller battery pack and a gas or diesel generator onboard to extend the range. Instead, the Ramcharger is NOT a REV. It's a 1500 DT (in appearance and basic features) that is electric with an onboard generator.

This not at all what I would call a "REV with a range extender option". I like it. I want one (a Ramcharger). But, I can no longer see how the REV is a viable product in the next 2 or 3 years.

 

[jl13]

definitely ramcharger - of course that is if they can keep a big horn trim under 60k which I doubt
on the looks department the more I look at the rev front end the more I disliked it

 

[mikeru82]

The Ramcharger is a game changer. No way in hell was I even considering buying a Rev. I have zero interest in a fully electric vehicle of any sort or the range anxiety that would come with it. But to have an EV with a way of charging it on-board, with the towing and hauling capacity this will have, makes it a no brainer for our next truck. The wife is so excited about it that she couldn't finish the day at work and spent the afternoon drooling over all the new stuff this will have. I have yet to see a pic of one with the MFT though, so that'll take some air out of her sails. But it's not a deal-breaker for us since there will still be a Rambox option.

 

[arod412]

I would get the ev straight up. I have extremely low miles on all of my vehicles, and I don't travel that far.

For example...my 2016 charger...daily driver...bought custom order brand new in 2016... just cracked 28k miles. My current ram, I've driven maybe a little more, and in 2 years, I have 8k miles on it.

I'm all about the ev....only because I'm not sold on the turbo engine long term. Now if I drove and put alot of miles, definatly ram charger.

2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

 

[Kumba1010]

mmh tough choice for me as I don't drive that much. I think I will wait for the specs of the EV to come out b4 deciding.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Well, the REV, is a completely different platform. It's pure EV and has features even the RAM charger won't have. It will still appeal to some that don't want anything to do with ICE engines.

The Ramcharger is a great option to help bridge the gap, even more than the PHEV hybrids do, since it's pure electric drive, even when the ICE engine is running.

 

[Grape_Ape]

I'm thinking the Ramcharger may also be a limited run (10 yrs or so). If we really do go full EV as a nation then as the infrastructure grows and the technology evolves there may not be as many current issues. So Ram sees this as a stepping stone with the REV being the ultimate goal.

 

[millerbjm]

I would get the ev straight up. I have extremely low miles on all of my vehicles, and I don't travel that far.

For example...my 2016 charger...daily driver...bought custom order brand new in 2016... just cracked 28k miles. My current ram, I've driven maybe a little more, and in 2 years, I have 8k miles on it.

I'm all about the ev....only because I'm not sold on the turbo engine long term. Now if I drove and put alot of miles, definatly ram charger.

2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

The Ramcharger doesn't use the turbo engine - it uses the pentastar V6.

 

[oe542bob]

I would be interested in the Ramcharger. I like the idea of extending the range with the V-6 charging the battery. One downside is you have a more complicated system which may or may not be a head ache when problems come up. Have to see how the warranty will be laid out.
I am also concerned about the price. My last truck, 2022 Laramie Longhorn, the MSRP was $80,460!

 

[habu987]

I was considering the REV up until the Ramcharger was unveiled.

The REV would fit my use case and I could make it work with little in the way of modifications to any of my routines. The one potentially iffy area was charger availability along my normal road trip routes--looking at ABRP, charger availability isn't an issue...but just because there *are* chargers doesn't mean they'll be functioning, or that there won't be people hogging them, etc.

The Ramcharger removes that from being a concern.

 

[TampaLaramie]

Having a 7,000 pound camper to tow, hauling is my focus with my truck. I get 20-24mpg towing it. The Ramcharger is close, I like the idea. It’s smart and sets a new standard for electric vehicles. I want to see how it performs. I want to see a Car and Driver test to intentionally deplete the battery in some form of stress test while towing 10,000 pounds and how the truck reacts. Will it force you to stop to charge?

Im good with my ED for the next 8 years or so. Honestly I’m only going larger in my camping world so my next truck will probably be a dually.

 

[StuartV]

The Ramcharger is a game changer. No way in hell was I even considering buying a Rev. I have zero interest in a fully electric vehicle of any sort or the range anxiety that would come with it. But to have an EV with a way of charging it on-board, with the towing and hauling capacity this will have, makes it a no brainer for our next truck. The wife is so excited about it that she couldn't finish the day at work and spent the afternoon drooling over all the new stuff this will have. I have yet to see a pic of one with the MFT though, so that'll take some air out of her sails. But it's not a deal-breaker for us since there will still be a Rambox option.

I was considering the REV - but only because RAM had announced that the REV would have an "industry-first range extender option". I would not buy a REV without some type of range extender.

But, it seems to me that the Ramcharger must be what they were hinting at when talking about the REV with a range extender.

I saw where I think they said the Ramcharger will have a power (up and down) tailgate. I have absolutely no use for that. But, one of the two reasons I traded my '19 RAM for a '21 was to get the MFT. If they don't have that as an option on the Ramcharger, that actually could be a dealbreaker for me. At least, have me waiting for a year or two longer than I want, to see if they make it available. Loading heavy stuff in and out of my bed is SO much easier with the MFT than with a dropdown tailgate!

I'm thinking the Ramcharger may also be a limited run (10 yrs or so). If we really do go full EV as a nation then as the infrastructure grows and the technology evolves there may not be as many current issues. So Ram sees this as a stepping stone with the REV being the ultimate goal.

I don't see being fully EV in 10 years. Maybe passenger cars will be MOSTLY EV by then. But, pickup trucks are a different beast. Many people with pickups have them so they can tow/haul heavy stuff. Even if it's only 4 - 6 times a year, hauling a camper on vacation, that is still the reason a lot of people have a pickup truck instead of something else. Most of the time, a basic SUV would meet their needs - but they still buy the pickup truck just for those 4 - 6 real uses each year.

And when we are towing/hauling, mileage goes in the toilet (gas, diesel, or electric). Even if electric trucks have 500 mile range (i.e. comparable to the range of a Hemi), if you're towing heavy and the range drops to 200 miles, then the time it takes to "refill" becomes a dealbreaker. I towed a very heavy trailer from DC to SC when I moved a couple of years ago. I was having to stop every 200 - 250 miles with my Hemi to get gas. That was annoying but at least it only took 10 - 15 minutes and then I could go another 200 - 250 miles.

If I had to stop and do a full charge on an electric truck every 200 - 250 miles, and that took an hour or two each time, well, there is just no way I would buy a truck that would work like that. And, even with the REV claiming to have a 500 mile range, there is nothing on the near horizon that suggests that it will be able to charge from 10% to 100% in anywhere near 15 minutes. Or even 30 minutes.

I suspect a lot of truck owners feel the same way I do - they simply would not buy a pure EV truck because of the range AND the charging time. When you're towing, having to spend an hour of time charging for every two or three hours of driving just does not make sense.

When they figure out solid state batteries or some other way to have charging be at least somewhat close to the speed of filling up with liquid fuel, THEN we will START the transition to a (nearly) fully EV nation. But, that does not seem like it's going to be in mass production and affordable in the next 5 years, at least.

 

[StuartV]

I would be interested in the Ramcharger. I like the idea of extending the range with the V-6 charging the battery. One downside is you have a more complicated system which may or may not be a head ache when problems come up. Have to see how the warranty will be laid out.
I am also concerned about the price. My last truck, 2022 Laramie Longhorn, the MSRP was $80,460!

Chevy was doing the same basic idea in the Volt for years. I think today's engineers should have a pretty good handle on how to make this work reliably.

Also, it actually seems LESS complicated as an overall system than a Hemi with eTorque. There, you have a gas motor, a generator that charges a battery pack, a battery system that charges from the generator and feeds electricity back to the generator to add torque to the engine, a torque converter, a transfer case, an 8-speed transmission, and 2 differentials (on a 4WD).

That all seems really complicated, to me.

Way more complicated than an engine that does nothing but spin a generator, a battery pack, and 2 electric motors.

No way I'll buy a first year Ramcharger. I'm sure they will have issues to figure out and fix. But, by year 2 or 3, I can't see why it shouldn't be more reliable and easier to fix than a Hemi w/eTorque or an EcoDiesel with its turbo, EGR, DEF, etc..

I am also worried about price. But, I'm trying to be optimistic. It seems like it ought to be cheaper than a 4WD Hemi with eTorque. Trading the Hemi and all that stuff I mentioned for a cheaper gas motor, 2 electric motors, and a big battery pack. Or, at least, no MORE expensive than the Hemi/eTorque (not counting normal yearly price increases).

 

[Grape_Ape]

@StuartV Thats fair on the 10 yr time line. I chose that simply as that's around the time some of the govt mandates are supposed to hit. I agree it will probably be longer. I think the real scenario that kills the ramcharger is when we have the capability of recharging 200-250miles of range in 10 min vs 50 miles that the ramcharger currently claims. The 800v systems from Hyundai and Kia would already be examples of that tech in the real world. If Stellantis adopts the tesla charger and we see more charging station evolution I think it becomes a real possibility in a decade.

 

[habu987]

I am also worried about price. But, I'm trying to be optimistic. It seems like it ought to be cheaper than a 4WD Hemi with eTorque. Trading the Hemi and all that stuff I mentioned for a cheaper gas motor, 2 electric motors, and a big battery pack. Or, at least, no MORE expensive than the Hemi/eTorque (not counting normal yearly price increases).

I don't see any way this will be cheaper than the Hemi. Throw in a ~$9k battery pack plus however much the EV motors cost (my WAG based on :30 of googling is ~$2500-3000 per motor, or about what the upcharge is for the Hemi), plus the generator, plus miscellaneous electrical expenses, and you're looking at a headline expense figure probably $10-12k over the Pentastar once you subtract out expenses for the transmission and other unnecessary components.

Right now the Hemi is a $3k upcharge over the 3.6. If the Ramcharger costs a ballpark $10-12k to produce over the Pentastar, the retail price is likely going to be $15-20k higher unless Ram intends to take a profit margin hit.

 

[Scram1500]

This is like the battle between Betamax and VHS

 

[WXman]

Yes, the REV will have horrendous resale value also. People who buy those will be stuck with them forever.

PHEV is the only way to do electrification, and the range extension makes it even better.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Yes, the REV will have horrendous resale value also. People who buy those will be stuck with them forever.

PHEV is the only way to do electrification, and the range extension makes it even better.

But the Ramcharger isn't technically a PHEV

 

[StuartV]

@StuartV Thats fair on the 10 yr time line. I chose that simply as that's around the time some of the govt mandates are supposed to hit. I agree it will probably be longer. I think the real scenario that kills the ramcharger is when we have the capability of recharging 200-250miles of range in 10 min vs 50 miles that the ramcharger currently claims. The 800v systems from Hyundai and Kia would already be examples of that tech in the real world. If Stellantis adopts the tesla charger and we see more charging station evolution I think it becomes a real possibility in a decade.

Those 800V cars can charge 200+ miles of range in 10 minutes? I'm not trying to argue. I'm asking because I don't know that much about the various charging systems.

I will point out that 200 miles of range in a Kia or Hyundai is probably a lot less actual electron juice than 200 miles in a RAM 1500.

Also, obviously we're talking about range when unloaded (i.e. not towing/hauling). And I don't think that is the tipping point for the EV truck market. I think it's when you can charge up 200+ miles of range while towing at or near the truck's limits that is what matters.

If I'm towing heavy, then I'm already having to stop way more often to "fuel up" than I would if I were unloaded. So, the time to "fuel up" is way more important when I'm towing than what it is when I'm not towing. If it takes 3 times a long (to charge versus fill with liquid fuel) and I have to stop twice as often, then my time spent at gas/charging stations is now 6 times as much out of my day as if I just had a gas/diesel truck or hybrid.

I wouldn't buy a pure EV until THAT equation changes. When I can tow on an all-day drive and get where I'm going in roughly the same amount of time is when I would consider a pure EV.

I don't see any way this will be cheaper than the Hemi. Throw in a ~$9k battery pack plus however much the EV motors cost (my WAG based on :30 of googling is ~$2500-3000 per motor, or about what the upcharge is for the Hemi), plus the generator, plus miscellaneous electrical expenses, and you're looking at a headline expense figure probably $10-12k over the Pentastar once you subtract out expenses for the transmission and other unnecessary components.

Right now the Hemi is a $3k upcharge over the 3.6. If the Ramcharger costs a ballpark $10-12k to produce over the Pentastar, the retail price is likely going to be $15-20k higher unless Ram intends to take a profit margin hit.

I certainly won't be surprised if it's a $10K upcharge over a the base model engine. But, I'm dubious that your math is including sufficient savings in reflecting that the truck has no transmission or transfer case or torque converter or differentials, with all their trappings.

But, the debate is kinda pointless. We'll see when they finally announce pricing.

 

[StuartV]

But the Ramcharger isn't technically a PHEV

You can plug it in. It's a hybrid. It's an electric vehicle.

Why debate technicalities of terminology?