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Overheating the 4x4 system

Brandon-w

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I was going to reach out to you the other day, but didn't want to bug you :) Hope the move is still going well.

I took this video a while back for Brandon so we could really see if the new 5th gen 48-11 TC really does react faster than the 4th gen 44-44 TC like BorgWarner claims in their marketing material. It's much faster.
You can contact me any time. Keeps me on track Alittle better lol. So many projects on the go it's hard to keep everything online. Been doing some Reno's and cleaning up the yard so the house can be sold on top of everything else.

I definately Havnt forgotten about you guys though.
 

KNGSNK11

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Nothing yet. I'm just waiting on v2 of the switch to test.

I suggest that if you're interested in this switch that you go and let them know. Not much demand for a 5th gen swtich right now. Ask them for it here:
Any new news as of yet?
I really don't want to join another forum so hopefully we can get updates here as well.
 

devildodge

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I fixed my 4x4 overheating issue.
Was waiting on the TRX debut to see how off road worthy it was going to be. Power Wagon is still king of going over things (for full size trucks).
My fully loading Power Wagon and new project:
View attachment 67000
View attachment 67001
Awesome

Did you join us at www.HDRAMS.com yet?

Now you get to learn about the disconnect dance and locker fun

They did fix the lockers to where you can use them in 4 high and use just the rear.

Awesome upgrade
 

CaptainCJ35

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I fixed my 4x4 overheating issue.
Was waiting on the TRX debut to see how off road worthy it was going to be. Power Wagon is still king of going over things (for full size trucks).
My fully loaded Power Wagon and new project:
View attachment 67000
View attachment 67001
That's a beast of a truck. Good luck with it! Seeing how you used your 1500, no doubt this is a great choice.
 

RT Molinari

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Went out today to do some more exploring with my son. Was wet and muddy. Ended up getting a message on my dash that the 4wd system had overheated and that 4wd performance is reduced.

In the video you can see that the truck basically keeps switching back and forth to 2wd mode at around the 3:18 mark. I'm assuming that the front diff and/or the transfer case overheated and that caused the transfer case to switch to 2wd. I was in 4LO this entire hill. I don't think I over revved it or was in it long. Makes me paranoid they didn't put in all my drivetrain fluids :oops:

Oh and I probably should have aired down my tires a little bit for this outing.

Sweet winch bumper mate and that is strange and has never happened to me before. This is one of the reasons I switched to Mud terrain tires (BFG KM3 LT285/70R17) because traction is key. I also try my hardest to never stop forward momentum. Modern trucks don't like reversing when in drive mode even if you're in 4Lo. Airing down as you mentioned obviously helps, and 33s aired down become 31s so my next set will be 35s. Other than that though it seems to be an unfortunate situation that hopefully is a one-off. I can't wait to teach my kids how to offroad though - good stuff!
 

Justinfonte

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Has anyone looked into swapping a bw 48-11 for a 48-12? I can't find anything on size comparison or if it would work. I've seen write-ups on 4th gen between the two t-cases and using a tazer programmer to change what transfer case the truck thinks it has. Id rather give up the auto for true 4x4, If I go into high on asphalt to test I want to feel bind up, which I don't in this one. I've also had my big horn offroad package with the locker and give me the overheat code on the dash. But it still acts weird, even with the code 4x4 stayed engaged, just wouldn't let me Rev above 2k... for a clutch transfer case, I still feel it bump in when shifting into 4x4 high.... making it feel like a non clutch tcase. And it will climb ramps in my shop for oil changes in low range. Truck had ab 3000 on it when it went into limp mode trying to pull my sister out of the dich on a snow day. Had both Trac and esc off that day.
 

CaptainCJ35

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I believe both T-Case's use clutches... that's how you get shift on the fly into 4WD. The big difference is 4-Auto in the 48-11, which progressively varies power transfer to front and rear wheels depending on traction demands, creating a lot more wear and heat on the clutch... particularly offroad. For reliability and longevity, the 48-12 doesn't have a 4-auto mode, and RAM put it in the Rebel as it's more of the "offroad" truck.
 

Pristine1

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This thread has concerned me. Is anyone else having issues overheating the clutches or is this a rare occurrence?

I haven’t put my truck through it’s paces yet but I plan to soon. I’ve got my 34 and a half’s haha, in the garage. 285/70/18 ridge grapplers. Hoping to not run into this short coming on the trails. I do have the rear locker at least so I’m in better shape than the OP there.

It’s too bad this isn’t an off road option. I got the off road package for a reason. It should just be part of the off road package really. Our 15 overland grand Cherokee had 4 auto without issues but it was on small factory tires. Plus it was never on a trail that really pushed it to the limits.
 

troverman

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I believe both T-Case's use clutches... that's how you get shift on the fly into 4WD. The big difference is 4-Auto in the 48-11, which progressively varies power transfer to front and rear wheels depending on traction demands, creating a lot more wear and heat on the clutch... particularly offroad. For reliability and longevity, the 48-12 doesn't have a 4-auto mode, and RAM put it in the Rebel as it's more of the "offroad" truck.

Actually, you do not need a clutch to shift into and out of 4x4 on the fly. My old Ford F-250 had manual locking hubs, and a manual transfer case shifter. If the hubs were already locked in, and you were not spinning the rear wheels (rolling down the road with front and rear wheels going the same speed), you could effortlessly shift into and out of 4x4 any time you wanted. I've had many Ford Super Duty trucks with the electronic shift on the fly part-time 2-speed transfer cases. The only things added to the transfer case was an ECU, the dashboard knob, the vacuum-shift auto hubs, and the transfer case motor / encoder. When you switched into 4HI, the ECU would not perform the shift until it checked the ABS wheel sensors and made sure the front and rear wheels were turning at the same speed, and later models checked the steering angle sensor to make sure the front wheels were not turned much. You'd feel a slight clunk as the hubs engaged, which brought the front drivetrain up to speed. Then the electric motor would shift the t-case into 4H, causing the front output shaft to become powered. There was no clutch.

Now later models changed slightly, and the Rebel / Tradesman case may be this way: they added a small clutch at the front output shaft. This clutch was only used during engagement, to "smooth" the engagement and make it faster. One everything was engaged (a matter of seconds), a locking collar would move into place, physically locking the front output shaft to the transfer case output.

On a part-time case like the Rebel / Tradesman, there is absolutely no clutch involved once 4HI or 4LO is engaged. You have a direct connection to the engine's torque and your front and rear wheels. Sharp turns on dry pavement will result in binding and hopping. The 4Auto cases never have this 100% mechanical connection; there is always the clutch between the front output shaft and the engine's torque. The rear wheels, of course, don't have a clutch between the engine's torque and the driveshaft at any time. The rear wheels always have torque; the front axle will have varying torque from 0-50%. In 4WD Auto, the rear wheels can receive anything from 100% to 50%.
 

troverman

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This thread has concerned me. Is anyone else having issues overheating the clutches or is this a rare occurrence?

I haven’t put my truck through it’s paces yet but I plan to soon. I’ve got my 34 and a half’s haha, in the garage. 285/70/18 ridge grapplers. Hoping to not run into this short coming on the trails. I do have the rear locker at least so I’m in better shape than the OP there.

It’s too bad this isn’t an off road option. I got the off road package for a reason. It should just be part of the off road package really. Our 15 overland grand Cherokee had 4 auto without issues but it was on small factory tires. Plus it was never on a trail that really pushed it to the limits.

The part-time transfer cases won't ever wear out and provide 100% mechanically-locked drive to the front and rear equally. That said, I prefer the 4WD Auto functionality. It is the most expensive transfer case, and works flawlessly in changing conditions. I also think it is perfectly adequate in the 4H and 4L modes to tackle most fire trails or Class 6 roads, etc...basic mud, loose materials, etc.

None of these trucks are suitable for serious off-road usage...they are simply too low and too large, including the Rebel. If you need to take a full-size out for serious wheeling, a 2500 short bed is actually a better choice with its solid front and rear axles, significantly better ground clearance, etc, if you can find room for it on the trail.
 

Pristine1

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I’m not getting into serious wheeling. Once you get past class 6 trails you’re more in the territory of having a purpose built 4x4. Not planning to go wreck this truck nor get another new truck for the few times I hit the trail. The Arizona trails are a mix of rock and hard pack mainly but there can be some pretty steep off camber hill climbs. The Jeep handled it with out a locker and on stock all season fortera’s. If the truck can’t handle it I’d be surprised.
 

LouNY

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I have Brandon's bypass witch on my 2016 Eco and it works great. Makes the 44-44 act like a 44-45.

I also had Brandon's switch in my 15 Big Horn eco, it definitely helped that truck.
The auto function along with much of the FCA programing was a major disappointment to me.
I had hoped that the programming and "transfer case upgrades" had been enough to over come the short comings that the previous generation had.
So far as I've only had my 19 Laramie hemi for not quite a month so I haven't had it on snow and ice or worked it yet.
Hey everyone who's following the switch on the 4th gen and Anthonys truck, I just wanted to chime in and say I Havnt forgotten about you guys with the newer models. Ive been crazy busy with other projects but, I will circle back around to doing more development on my switch to make it cooperate with the new trucks. I'll get back to you guys once I find out what's going on and get more in depth testing done.
Thanks
Brandon
Hello Brandon,
Good to hear that you are working on a switch kit for the new generation,
once you get it ready I'll most likely be looking for one.
So far my t case has worked but it also hasn't had to work hard yet.

I had several issues with the 4th generation t case and it's several short comings.
Such as disengaging when putting the truck in neutral,
not having any holdback when descending a hill and using the gearing to slow down the truck,
the electrical activation was a minor contributor to the torque transfer through the t case
it engaged the front drive and allowed a ball cam to apply the compression to the clutch pack
to drive the front end.
An electric clutch that would hold the torque available from the combined engine output and gear
multiplication from the transfer case and transmission would be quite large and require an immense
amount of energy.
I don't know the exact amount of torque the old style clutch pack could transfer from the electro-magnetic
activation but I seem to recall reading something around 1000 ft pounds. But the computer
almost never gave the required commands to achieve that amount of lockup.
 

troverman

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The 5th gen transfer case has the ability to keep the front wheels engaged with the engine off for better parking traction. I’m assuming it can also remain engaged for downhill descents as well.
 

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