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Overheating the 4x4 system

AnthonyD1978

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Went out today to do some more exploring with my son. Was wet and muddy. Ended up getting a message on my dash that the 4wd system had overheated and that 4wd performance is reduced.

In the video you can see that the truck basically keeps switching back and forth to 2wd mode at around the 3:18 mark. I'm assuming that the front diff and/or the transfer case overheated and that caused the transfer case to switch to 2wd. I was in 4LO this entire hill. I don't think I over revved it or was in it long. Makes me paranoid they didn't put in all my drivetrain fluids :oops:

Oh and I probably should have aired down my tires a little bit for this outing.

 
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devildodge

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Guessing you have the 48-11 (44-44) AKA 4wd auto transfer case.

This is why the Rebel does not use this transfer case.

The 48-11 (44-44) uses clutches to engage 4wd, even in 4wd lock.

The 48-12 (44-45) in the Rebel uses a direct chain drive.

The 48-11 (44-44) never locks and actually switches in and out of 2wd 4wd while operating.

4 wheel low will help some, but you basically overheated the clutches.

Why i get so anxious when someone says it is stupid the Rebel doesn't offer 4wd auto.

My educated guess.

Love the bumper mod
 

devildodge

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There is a member on ramforum who built a bypass for the 4th Gen. It locks the clutches and keeps them locked.

He was hopeful RAM addressed the issue. I know he has been saying about look ok. Ng into it with the 5th Gen.

Sometimes it is hard to explain why there is a different transfer case in the Rebel.

Terrible that you had to experience this, but hope the video helps explain the reasoning.

So excited to see your RAM offroad, very disappointed that this happened.

One of the downsides of the ever increasing demand for a do all truck. It usually ends up that ruggedness and usefulness take second place to comfort and style/technology
 

devildodge

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I hope those who didn't get your bumper mod see this video to see how well it serves its purpose.

I am having the same issue on my HeavyDuty. That bumper really gets in the way.
 

AnthonyD1978

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Guessing you have the 44-44 AKA 4wd auto transfer case.

This is why the Rebel does not use this transfer case.

The 44-44 uses clutches to engage 4wd, even in 4wd lock.

The 44-45 in the Rebel uses a direct chain drive.

The 44-44 never locks and actually switches in and out of 2wd 4wd while operating.

4 wheel low will help some, but you basically overheated the clutches.

Why i get so anxious when someone says it is stupid the Rebel doesn't offer 4wd auto.

My educated guess.

Love the bumper mod

Makes complete sense. Same issue with some AWD cars during track days. I didn’t realize the 44-44 used clutches. I knew what I was getting into when I didn’t get the ORG and letting the electronics mask not having a locker, but didn’t know about the clutches. Thank you for the insight! I do enjoy the 4wd auto in bad weather on the pavement.

Doesn’t change much for me. Still waiting on that TRX to drop.
 
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devildodge

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I learned about the BLDS this weekend.

Brake lock differential system

Can basically use the traction control to act like lockers both front and rear.

Can not wait to give it a try in the coming weeks. Been waiting for some more snow, but we haven't got it yet.

Gamelands are still open here till the end of February. Hoping to get out on the service roads a few more times.

News about the TRX should be ramping up fairly shortly.
 

AnthonyD1978

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I learned about the BLDS this weekend.

Brake lock differential system

Can basically use the traction control to act like lockers both front and rear.

Can not wait to give it a try in the coming weeks. Been waiting for some more snow, but we haven't got it yet.

Gamelands are still open here till the end of February. Hoping to get out on the service roads a few more times.

News about the TRX should be ramping up fairly shortly.

Yes, it's actually a good system and does a fairly good job of simulating front and rear lockers . I've been impressed with it so far and why I didn't mind getting a truck without a locker. It reminds me of the electronic diffs used in lots of cars to simulate a mechanical LSD. BMW, McLaren, etc use them. My last BMW used one.

The big drawback for the tuck is overheating the clutch pack it seems. I'm going to research what, if anything, can be done to mitigate this issue.
 

devildodge

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Start here. Some links to the other threads inside.

Brandon-w is the member you want to pay attention too, but as you can see, alot of teamwork went into it.
 

go-ram

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Guessing you have the 44-44 AKA 4wd auto transfer case.

This is why the Rebel does not use this transfer case.

The 44-44 uses clutches to engage 4wd, even in 4wd lock.

The 44-45 in the Rebel uses a direct chain drive.

The 44-44 never locks and actually switches in and out of 2wd 4wd while operating.

4 wheel low will help some, but you basically overheated the clutches.

Why i get so anxious when someone says it is stupid the Rebel doesn't offer 4wd auto.

My educated guess.

Love the bumper mod
.
Apologies for being dense, but do I read this forum thread correctly in that ordering the ORG (off-road group) avoids the problem of the overheating clutch packs?
.
What, if any, difference does the E-locker rear axle make in a situation like the OP encountered?
.
Thanks in advance for any clarification you can provide.
.
 

AnthonyD1978

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.
Apologies for being dense, but do I read this forum thread correctly in that ordering the ORG (off-road group) avoids the problem of the overheating clutch packs?
.
What, if any, difference does the E-locker rear axle make in a situation like the OP encountered?
.
Thanks in advance for any clarification you can provide.
.

ORG should not have the issue. Most people with-out ORG will not see the issue either.
See @devildodge reply below.


Start here. Some links to the other threads inside.

Brandon-w is the member you want to pay attention too, but as you can see, alot of teamwork went into it.

Yup, been reading that thread for the last 40min or so. Lots of good info. I already posted asking about 5th gen options. See if Brandon replies.
 
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devildodge

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If you get the ORG you will get the 48-11 (44-44) transfer case, unless you get a tradesman.

ORG on a tradesman will get you the 48-12 (44-45). It is only available on tradesman and Rebel.

The eLocker can be had on a 2wd also. It helps with the Rear end giving you full power to both wheels.

The BLDS which is stock on all trucks helps to put full power to both wheels by using the brakes to limit wheel spin.

With the ORG, unlike the Rebel, you can also pick 3.21 or 3.92 with your eLocker.

@go-ram If I was too vague or you have more questions you want a direct answer to, hit us up.
 
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AnthonyD1978

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An article to read about the BLDS.

Thank you! I'll read it once I get through that other discussion thread on RAM Forum. I think I'll probably go with Brandon's switch (if he releases one for the 5th gen) and if/when the TC fails out of warranty do a direct 44-45 swap. If I have the truck that long.

It appears the 5th gen has a different TC than the 44-44 actually.
 
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CaptainCJ35

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Yes, it's actually a good system and does a fairly good job of simulating front and rear lockers . I've been impressed with it so far and why I didn't mind getting a truck without a locker. It reminds me of the electronic diffs used in lots of cars to simulate a mechanical LSD. BMW, McLaren, etc use them. My last BMW used one.

The big drawback for the tuck is overheating the clutch pack it seems. I'm going to research what, if anything, can be done to mitigate this issue.
I had no idea that you didn't have a locker... wheeling the truck they way you do without is impressive.

You said above that you had a fluid change... got me thinking... aren't the clutches held together by hydraulic forces? So if you don't have enough fluids in your transfer case it can't build up the pressure need to keep the clutches "locked" under load? Just spit balling.
 

AnthonyD1978

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I had no idea that you didn't have a locker... wheeling the truck they way you do without is impressive.

You said above that you had a fluid change... got me thinking... aren't the clutches held together by hydraulic forces? So if you don't have enough fluids in your transfer case it can't build up the pressure need to keep the clutches "locked" under load? Just spit balling.

Nope, no locker. At the time I got my truck there weren't any on the lot. I knew the BLDS system would get over most anything a locker would. It just may take a little more time and speed lol. I didn't know about the clutch issue though.

I've never done any fluid change on the truck other than engine oil. Yes, it's a wet clutch. Like in a manual transmission. I will check that it's topped off at some point here, but I'm not too concerned about the factory leaving me underfilled.

After doing some more reading I don't think I would ever do the 44-45 swap. The 4auto case and the bypass switch made by Brandon does have some advantages.
 

TruckDriver

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@AnthonyD1978 I just came to say

+Awesome wheeling - of all the forum I think you've truly wheeled the most (and posted about it), thanks for sharing and showing off so we can live vicariously haha

+Bumper mod came out great - I saw your mod thread and think that was a great choice given the options on the market. I don't know if you've put any trim on the bare edges but some simple 'door edge guard' type gasket could finish the look

Good luck with the clutch pack cooling!
 

AnthonyD1978

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@AnthonyD1978 I just came to say

+Awesome wheeling - of all the forum I think you've truly wheeled the most (and posted about it), thanks for sharing and showing off so we can live vicariously haha

+Bumper mod came out great - I saw your mod thread and think that was a great choice given the options on the market. I don't know if you've put any trim on the bare edges but some simple 'door edge guard' type gasket could finish the look

Good luck with the clutch pack cooling!

Thanks! I appreciate it! This is my first truck, but I love all things automotive and exploring what they can do to the best of my ability. I came from the car scene. Did lots of racing and track days in SoCal. I got the truck because of moving out to the Arizona mountains. I told myself I was going to leave it stock other than wheels and tires because I was tired of spending time and money modifying cars HAHA!
IMG_4479.png
I actually did exactly that with the door edge guard. You can see it in the below pic along the cut edge of the bumper. (y) (y)

667F42E4-AA0E-4012-AFAB-0EDFEFC86B00.jpeg
61418025-8BBA-480C-9D89-E297E5FC74E6.jpeg
 

Chippy

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Thx for sharing those hills are way bigger than they look on video. I could see your truck cutting in and out of 4x4.
 

DesertRebel

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Thanks! I appreciate it! This is my first truck, but I love all things automotive and exploring what they can do to the best of my ability. I came from the car scene. Did lots of racing and track days in SoCal. I got the truck because of moving out to the Arizona mountains. I told myself I was going to leave it stock other than wheels and tires because I was tired of spending time and money modifying cars HAHA!
View attachment 43110
Willow Springs?... I used to track there, and Fontana (Roval & 1/4 mile) and Irwindale - in a modified G35...

Like you, I decided AZ is about off-road - the G has been sitting in garage for 3+ years...

I am trying hard not to go down the rabbit hole with the Ram - but it's an addiction (any of us that have modified vehicles know this)... I told myself no mods - and in the first two weeks I'm two grand in (but all practical stuff).

I'll keep an eye on your build progress - looks like you have good insight.
 

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