Oil Preference?

[PowerJrod]

Oil is like tires. It's hard to find a "bad" one these days. The Supertech synthetic at Walmart is made by Warren Distribution, and in testing it's been shown to perform just as well as Mobil 1 or some of the luxury oils. Plus, Supertech is $14.88 for a 5-quart jug. Why wouldn't a guy just use that?? I do.

One thing I don't do is stick with the watery viscosity that was spec'd soley for FCA profits. EPA cycle testing and CAFE rules are causing these 0W20 and 0W16 oils to become more and more common, and oil analysis testing has shown me that 5W30 and 5W40 oils still protect better with less wear metals in the oil.

There's a YouTube video from a few years ago that compared Supertech to Mobile 1. Supertech was good but not anywhere near as good as Mobile 1. Look it up. There's a reason why Mobile 1 and Pennzoil costs more...and it's not just the name. Supertech used to only be made for lawnmowers, tractors, etc...

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Here you go. 9,000+ miles with single digit "wear numbers" and a TBN of 1.3. However, these inexpensive analysis are not an accurate way of measuring wear. They only see particle sizes up to around 5um, larger particles are not seen, so they give a limited snapshot of the oil. To accurately measure wear requires teardowns and weighing and measuring components after controlled testing over long-term mileage. There are also more advanced tests that cost hundreds of dollars that are much more accurate. These simple UOA's are useful for checking for contaminants like fuel, water and coolant and estimating appropriate OCI's based on the TBN and TAN.

Also, Mobile is a city in Alabama, Mobil is a company that produces lubricants.


Here's a UOA on Mobil 1 0W-40 after only 3,500 with double digit iron and copper "wear numbers" and higher per miles number for aluminum. So, comparing this to the Super Tech UOA above can we conclude that ST is the superior oil because it produced much better numbers than the M1? Of course it doesn't. It just proves that comparing UOA's of one brand vs another is a waste of time.

 

[ram0686]

I use Supertech in the wife's car. Good stuff. I was a Mobil 1 guy until I noticed both my vehicles ate the stuff up more than any other oil I've tried. Other people, and mechanics agreed with me. Still a good oil. Not worth the price. Thought it was all in my head. I only use Pennzoil / Shell Rotella in truck. Wife's car has 130,000 miles, and warranty is long gone.

 

[PowerJrod]

Here's a UOA on Mobil 1 0W-40 after only 3,500 with double digit iron and copper "wear numbers" and higher per miles number for aluminum. So, comparing this to the Super Tech UOA above can we conclude that ST is the superior oil because it produced much better numbers than the M1? Of course it doesn't. It just proves that comparing UOA's of one brand vs another is a waste of time.
View attachment 64357

Here you go. 9,000+ miles with single digit "wear numbers" and a TBN of 1.3. However, these inexpensive analysis are not an accurate way of measuring wear. They only see particle sizes up to around 5um, larger particles are not seen, so they give a limited snapshot of the oil. To accurately measure wear requires teardowns and weighing and measuring components after controlled testing over long-term mileage. There are also more advanced tests that cost hundreds of dollars that are much more accurate. These simple UOA's are useful for checking for contaminants like fuel, water and coolant and estimating appropriate OCI's based on the TBN and TAN.

Also, Mobile is a city in Alabama, Mobil is a company that produces lubricants.

View attachment 64344

Weird...thought this was a Ram forum...Not a Kia 2.7 10w30 forum lol.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Weird...thought this was a Ram forum...Not a Kia 2.7 10w30 forum lol.

You asked for comparison of Super Tech and Mobil 1.

 

[Nails]

ST full synthetic is solid in all research I’ve done. It’s not top mostly the additive packages aren’t as big as the other high end oils. Obviously bulk purchase adds to the lowering of cost also.

I use it in wife’s van. Change at 50% life left which is usually around 5k. Oil still clean after 1k of use and 60k on vehicle.

If it wasn’t for finding the deals on PUP when I am close to changing oil on truck I’d probably use it. Just adjust change interval, also it’s Chrysler certified.

For the regular everyday folk ST and other house brand full synthetic oils will be more then fine. I’ve seen a lot of modded rams that don’t even put super high end oils in the engine on a regular and run them hard constantly with no issues.
It’s all in the change intervals wanted, maintenance expense & little personal preference. I don’t think you can go wrong with any newer aged full synthetic oil.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

ST full synthetic is solid in all research I’ve done. It’s not top mostly the additive packages aren’t as big as the other high end oils. Obviously bulk purchase adds to the lowering of cost also.

I use it in wife’s van. Change at 50% life left which is usually around 5k. Oil still clean after 1k of use and 60k on vehicle.

If it wasn’t for finding the deals on PUP when I am close to changing oil on truck I’d probably use it. Just adjust change interval, also it’s Chrysler certified.

For the regular everyday folk ST and other house brand full synthetic oils will be more then fine. I’ve seen a lot of modded rams that don’t even put super high end oils in the engine on a regular and run them hard constantly with no issues.
It’s all in the change intervals wanted, maintenance expense & little personal preference. I don’t think you can go wrong with any newer aged full synthetic oil.

Very well said. The majors like Chevron and Exxon-Mobil sell their base stock to blenders like Warren and there's only a handful of additive package producers like Infineum, Oronite and Lubrizol so they are using high quality components to build Super Tech, Amazon, Kirkland, Mag1 and other private labels. And part of their low cost isn't lack of quality, it's because they don't have huge billion dollar advertising budgets like Pennzoil, Valvoline and the other majors.

 

[SD Rebel]

I use for the RAM Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5W-20 Synthetic. Mainly because it seems to have strong reviews and analysis, it meets FCA's requirements, synthetic & only $22 for 5-gallon jug at Walmart.

For my old stuff, I use Mobil 1 High-Mileage synthetic in whatever grades are recommended. Mainly because it does a great job in fixing minor leaks and keep our 1993 Ranger, 1998 Jeep and 1999 Lexus completely oil leak free. It even fixed a rear main seal leak in the Ranger a few years ago, still going strong now

 

[WXman]

Could you please link an oil analysis test with a 5th gen RAM that shows better protection with 5W30 and 5W40?

Is the 5th Gen Ram engine inherently different from any other domestic V8?

 

[AmericanRebelution]

Is the 5th Gen Ram engine inherently different from any other domestic V8?

I would say yes. There are even domestically produced V8s that call for oil weight different from the 5th gen RAM engine. For example, GM 5.3 and 6.2 both call for 0W20.

Let me rephrase my request. Could you please post any factual information from a reputable source that shows “better protection” when 5w30 or 5w40 is used in a modern (post 2010) domestically produced V8 truck engine?

 

[silver billet]

I would say yes. There are even domestically produced V8s that call for oil weight different from the 5th gen RAM engine. For example, GM 5.3 and 6.2 both call for 0W20.

Let me rephrase my request. Could you please post any factual information from a reputable source that shows “better protection” when 5w30 or 5w40 is used in a modern (post 2010) domestically produced V8 truck engine?

I don't have any proof, per se. But I think we can be safe in assuming that it is true anyway, for several reasons. The reason why they thinner oils are becoming more popular, is because of fuel efficiency (mind you, Engineering Explained on YouTube did a recent in depth video on this saying the savings is like a fraction of a percent); so they are trying to gain efficiency, not protection. Second reason is that as of little while ago the big hemi in the 2500 still called for either 5w-30 or 5w-40. Can't be bothered to track it down, but I know it was thicker. Thirdly, we know that more viscous is better (as long as there is sufficient flow at that temperature), that's the whole point of oil in the first place. Getting closer and closer to water is almost certain to reduce protection.

So the question isn't really: "Is 5w-30/5w-40 better", think that answer is evident. The question is: "Is 0w-16/0w-20 good enough?"

 

[AmericanRebelution]

I don't have any proof, per se. But I think we can be safe in assuming that it is true anyway, for several reasons. The reason why they thinner oils are becoming more popular, is because of fuel efficiency (mind you, Engineering Explained on YouTube did a recent in depth video on this saying the savings is like a fraction of a percent); so they are trying to gain efficiency, not protection. Second reason is that as of little while ago the big hemi in the 2500 still called for either 5w-30 or 5w-40. Can't be bothered to track it down, but I know it was thicker. Thirdly, we know that more viscous is better (as long as there is sufficient flow at that temperature), that's the whole point of oil in the first place. Getting closer and closer to water is almost certain to reduce protection.

So the question isn't really: "Is 5w-30/5w-40 better", think that answer is evident. The question is: "Is 0w-16/0w-20 good enough?"

How about tolerances in modern engines?

I think I better quit reading these "oil" threads before I end up filling my truck with 20w50 since "move viscous is better".

 

[SpeedyV]

I think I better quit reading these "oil" threads before I end up filling my truck with 20w50 since "move viscous is better".

Just do it...for the benefit of all (except yourself)

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Here's a UOA on a 5.7L using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20 for 5,000 miles from last year. Iron "wear" at 14PPM, which is 5PPM
below the universal average for this engine and aluminum and copper are also below universal averages. How could using 5W-30 or 5W-40 in this Hemi improve on these numbers when they're already "low"? Again, these inexpensive analysis only give a very limited view of what's going on in the engine. Iron is the primary metal to be concerned about, since that's what the engine and components are primarily made of, but these tests don't identify where it's coming from or the accurate amount in the oil since it only measures particles of a certain size. Is the iron from the bearings, timing chain, pistons or is it from simple corrosion?

Here is a very short article from Machinery Lubrication explaining the more advanced, and expensive, testing that's needed to accurately measure iron levels.

Analyzing Iron in Oil Samples

"What type of relationship can you associate with iron particles when performing a spectrochemical analysis versus a direct-read ferrography? I believe spectrochemical determines the number of...

www.machinerylubrication.com

 

[WXman]

+1 for that.
Also link for oil analysis that shows Supertech being even close to Mobile 1 please.

Look up Project Farm on YouTube. He tested all of them and Supertech blew a lot of higher priced oils out of the water.

 

[WXman]

There's a lot of silliness going on in this thread now and I'm not going to get down in the weeds.

The fact that GM engines "call" for 0W20 doesn't indicate they were necessarily designed around 0W20, nor does it prove that 5W20 or 5W30 wouldn't protect better. All that tells us is that GM's bean counters told the engineers to do every thing possible to get the best CAFE numbers they could to reduce EPA fines and penalities.

Saying "well I'll just use 20W50 then" is being sarcastic. Nobody suggested that (although some V8 engines like the Mustang GT500s with the 5.4L V8 or the 5.0L V8 with Track Pack do spec a 5W50). All I said was through oil analysis on a modern domestic V8 I have seen that higher viscosity oils like 5W30 and 5W40 showed less wear metals and better performance over time, which is a factual statement.

Keep in mind that there are some engines currently on the market, even from FCA, that were originally spec'd with 5W30 but over the years moved to 0W20 or 5W20 with NO changes to the engine block, rods, pistons, etc. What does that show us? Just more proof of my first statement, that OEs do not care about your engine at 200,000 miles, all they care about is that financial bottom line. If a 0W20 oil will save them 0.002 MPG on a mass produced vehicle and score them better on the EPA test, that's what they're going to "spec".

Lastly, the oil reports showing good wear numbers and TBN with 5w20 oils means zero. Show me the same truck, same intervals, same brand oil, just bumped up to a 5W30 and then 5W40. Then we'll compare and have lessons to learn. Good doesn't mean it can't be better.

 

[silver billet]

How about tolerances in modern engines?

I think I better quit reading these "oil" threads before I end up filling my truck with 20w50 since "move viscous is better".

The manual for the 5.7 in the 2500 (2016, possibly other years too but the point is true regardless) states: 5w-30 is recommended towing heavy loads, at all operating temperatures.

Also (apparently) if you got an SRT hemi, the manual would recommend 5w-40/0w-40. Same engine internals.

Can't get anymore clear than this, can it?

 

[Scram1500]

The manual for the 5.7 in the 2500 (2016, possibly other years too but the point is true regardless) states: 5w-30 is recommended towing heavy loads, at all operating temperatures.

Also (apparently) if you got an SRT hemi, the manual would recommend 5w-40/0w-40. Same engine internals.

Can't get anymore clear than this, can it?

I'll only add that the 2500 5.7 does not have MDS with collapsible lifters, using 5w-30 can interfere with MDS on the 1500

 

[PowerJrod]

Look up Project Farm on YouTube. He tested all of them and Supertech blew a lot of higher priced oils out of the water.

Really? Which part of that video series actually shows the superiority of Supertech over full synthetic Mobile 1 and Pennzoil Platinum? I didn't see it anywhere....there were a few mild comparison but nothing conclusive.

 

[PowerJrod]

There's a lot of silliness going on in this thread now and I'm not going to get down in the weeds.

The fact that GM engines "call" for 0W20 doesn't indicate they were necessarily designed around 0W20, nor does it prove that 5W20 or 5W30 wouldn't protect better. All that tells us is that GM's bean counters told the engineers to do every thing possible to get the best CAFE numbers they could to reduce EPA fines and penalities.

Saying "well I'll just use 20W50 then" is being sarcastic. Nobody suggested that (although some V8 engines like the Mustang GT500s with the 5.4L V8 or the 5.0L V8 with Track Pack do spec a 5W50). All I said was through oil analysis on a modern domestic V8 I have seen that higher viscosity oils like 5W30 and 5W40 showed less wear metals and better performance over time, which is a factual statement.

Keep in mind that there are some engines currently on the market, even from FCA, that were originally spec'd with 5W30 but over the years moved to 0W20 or 5W20 with NO changes to the engine block, rods, pistons, etc. What does that show us? Just more proof of my first statement, that OEs do not care about your engine at 200,000 miles, all they care about is that financial bottom line. If a 0W20 oil will save them 0.002 MPG on a mass produced vehicle and score them better on the EPA test, that's what they're going to "spec".

Lastly, the oil reports showing good wear numbers and TBN with 5w20 oils means zero. Show me the same truck, same intervals, same brand oil, just bumped up to a 5W30 and then 5W40. Then we'll compare and have lessons to learn. Good doesn't mean it can't be better.

Pretty much the same point I tried to make...hence my concern when we got a new Rav4 that opts for 0w16 oil.