Oil Preference?

[SpeedyV]

I’ll stick with the manufacturer-recommended 5W-20 and let you know if I see an oil-related failure in the duration of my Lifetime MaxCare warranty.

 

[PowerJrod]

I’ll stick with the manufacturer-recommended 5W-20 and let you know if I see an oil-related failure in the duration of my Lifetime MaxCare warranty.

Yep same here....no extended warranty for me yet though.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

I’ll stick with the manufacturer-recommended 5W-20 and let you know if I see an oil-related failure in the duration of my Lifetime MaxCare warranty.

You won't. BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Audi and Volkswagen all recommend 0W-20 in some of their models. You guys that know XW-20 is too watery thin to work properly should let their engineering teams know they don't have a clue when it comes to the lubrication requirements of their engines.

 

[vdemarco]

Nobody really is saying the engineers don't know what they are doing. THey have a different set of requirements, fuel economy being #1, if you buy a 7,000 lb truck and assume you are going to get excellent gas millage then i don't know what you were thinking.

Using the thicker oil is meant to prioritize long life and NOT fuel economy. That being said, my new 2020 will get the factory oil till the warranty runs out. but i have started to put 5w-30 in the 2011 durango with no warranty.

 

[Florida Truck]

I run Mobil 1 full synthetic with mopar filter

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Don’t you think MB, Porsche and the others want their vehicles to last a long time for their customers with no lubrication related failures?

 

[silver billet]

I'll only add that the 2500 5.7 does not have MDS with collapsible lifters, using 5w-30 can interfere with MDS on the 1500

That's been repeated often yes; however anecdotally it's been proven to be completely untrue. There are a ton of us guys running thick oil (Redline 5W-30, which is almost as thick as some -40's) and MDS still works perfectly normally.

I however, disable it the second I'm in gear anyway.

 

[silver billet]

Don’t you think MB, Porsche and the others want their vehicles to last a long time for their customers with no lubrication related failures?

Design is always a compromise. Figuring out what has been compromised in the name of longevitiy/quality is not necessarily that easy to detect, but yes there is more than one factor at play when choosing an oil, such as fuel efficiency (espeically corporate numbers, the low hanging fruit is long gone and they're now being forced to implement stupider and stupider mechanisms to save a fraction of a percent).

 

[silver billet]

You won't. BMW, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Audi and Volkswagen all recommend 0W-20 in some of their models. You guys that know XW-20 is too watery thin to work properly should let their engineering teams know they don't have a clue when it comes to the lubrication requirements of their engines.

We're not talking about those guys, or even RAM in general. I (personally) am talking about "my" engine, which is the 5.7 hemi, and also the 6.4 which is very closely related. They were all originally designed with heavier oils, and bringing MB/Audi into the discussion is completely meaningless.

 

[PowerJrod]

Nobody really is saying the engineers don't know what they are doing. THey have a different set of requirements, fuel economy being #1, if you buy a 7,000 lb truck and assume you are going to get excellent gas millage then i don't know what you were thinking.

Using the thicker oil is meant to prioritize long life and NOT fuel economy. That being said, my new 2020 will get the factory oil till the warranty runs out. but i have started to put 5w-30 in the 2011 durango with no warranty.

Nothing wrong with that... especially if you don't live in a cold climate. I'll end up doing the same later on since I'm in the Vegas heat.

 

[PowerJrod]

Don’t you think MB, Porsche and the others want their vehicles to last a long time for their customers with no lubrication related failures?

Most people that drive a new Mercedes, Porsche, etc don't keep them for 60k miles...my client's and bosses have both and they don't keep them past 50k miles EVER so who knows. Those cars aren't meant to be daily driver's anyway.

 

[PowerJrod]

We're not talking about those guys, or even RAM in general. I (personally) am talking about "my" engine, which is the 5.7 hemi, and also the 6.4 which is very closely related. They were all originally designed with heavier oils, and bringing MB/Audi into the discussion is completely meaningless.

I was trying to be indirect but yep! Same idea I was throwing out there lol.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Design is always a compromise. Figuring out what has been compromised in the name of longevitiy/quality is not necessarily that easy to detect, but yes there is more than one factor at play when choosing an oil, such as fuel efficiency (espeically corporate numbers, the low hanging fruit is long gone and they're now being forced to implement stupider and stupider mechanisms to save a fraction of a percent).

That’s exactly my point, some people assume that using anything less than XW-30 in their 5.7L means longevity is automatically reduced, yet no one can produce any real data to support that position. It’s something they “feel” or “believe”, but no one can produce any solid evidence that proves using XW-20 in the Hemi shortens it’s lifespan by any measurable time.

Does it seem reasonable to believe that Porsche, BMW and other makers of high end vehicles would recommend 0W-20 if they thought there was a chance it reflect badly on their reputation by not working properly in their engines?

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Trying to point out that other makers of high performance engines recommend the use of the same grade of oil that the Hemi uses is meaningless, yet Project Farms silly middle school science project "tests" done in his garage on oils that have already passed the battery of tests done by the API, ILSAC, ACEA, GM, Ford, Honda, FCA and other manufacturers is meaningful and relevant. OK.

 

[silver billet]

That’s exactly my point, some people assume that using anything less than XW-30 in their 5.7L means longevity is automatically reduced, yet no one can produce any real data to support that position. It’s something they “feel” or “believe”, but no one can produce any solid evidence that proves using XW-20 in the Hemi shortens it’s lifespan by any measurable time.

Does it seem reasonable to believe that Porsche, BMW and other makers of high end vehicles would recommend 0W-20 if they thought there was a chance it reflect badly on their reputation by not working properly in their engines?

Actually my use of 5w-30 is evidence based, not feelings. I literally hear a difference (part of that might be higher dosage of Moly), and keep in mind these hemi's were originally designed to use thicker oil.

You keeping dragging other engines/manufacturers into this as if we're suggesting that every engine requires thicker oil. Again, couldn't care less what BMW is doing; I own a Hemi. My chainsaw requires different oil than my zero turn, which requires different oil than my brother's boat, which requires different oil than my other brother's "big rig" truck. That's all irrelevant, I'm talking Hemi, which was designed to run thicker oil.

 

[PowerJrod]

Actually my use of 5w-30 is evidence based, not feelings. I literally hear a difference (part of that might be higher dosage of Moly), and keep in mind these hemi's were originally designed to use thicker oil.

You keeping dragging other engines/manufacturers into this as if we're suggesting that every engine requires thicker oil. Again, couldn't care less what BMW is doing; I own a Hemi. My chainsaw requires different oil than my zero turn, which requires different oil than my brother's boat, which requires different oil than my other brother's "big rig" truck. That's all irrelevant, I'm talking Hemi, which was designed to run thicker oil.

Exactly this
I did go back and do a little digging...looks like Ram started using the 5w20 in 2007 with the development of MDS. I'm sure that going to 5w30 wouldn't hurt anything unless you're in Alaska or the artic circle lol. Also...found a chart that says the viscosity difference...
5w20: 8.9
5w30: 11. This is with temperature at 100°C...what this means....I don't fvcking know lol. And neither will anyone else.

 

[SD Rebel]

Exactly this
I did go back and do a little digging...looks like Ram started using the 5w20 in 2007 with the development of MDS. I'm sure that going to 5w30 wouldn't hurt anything unless you're in Alaska or the artic circle lol. Also...found a chart that says the viscosity difference...
5w20: 8.9
5w30: 11. This is with temperature at 100°C...what this means....I don't fvcking know lol. And neither will anyone else.

Wouldn't that assume they did nothing else with the engine? sounds like they have been running 5W-20 since 2007, the engine has been refined over the years, makes sense it would run optimally on their recommended oil weight?

The 6.4L recommends 0W-40 but also comes with MDS.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Exactly this
I did go back and do a little digging...looks like Ram started using the 5w20 in 2007 with the development of MDS. I'm sure that going to 5w30 wouldn't hurt anything unless you're in Alaska or the artic circle lol. Also...found a chart that says the viscosity difference...
5w20: 8.9
5w30: 11. This is with temperature at 100°C...what this means....I don't fvcking know lol. And neither will anyone else.

Why do you think no one knows what the viscosity numbers mean? It's actually very simple and I've explained it before. Each grade has a viscosity range, it's not a set number for each grade and it's measured at 100C, which is the approximate engine operating temperature of 212F and at 40C, which is 104F. The viscosity is measured in centistokes, cSt. The SAE chart below shows the range for each grade, the top shows the W or winter rating and the bottom half starting with 8 shows the operating viscosity range. 20 grade has a minimum cSt of 6.9 to a maximum of 9.29, shown as <9.3. 30 grade has a minimum of 9.3 to a maximum of 12.49, shown as <12.5. The last number to the right is the High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) rating that is measured a150C and is shown in centipoise, cP.

So a 20 grade can have a viscosity of 9.29cSt and be almost a 30 grade and a 30 grade can have a viscosity of 9.3cSt and almost be a 20 grade. Most companies blend their 20 grades to be in the mid 8cSt range and their 30 grades in the mid 10cSt range, this gives them a product that falls into the middle range of each grade so they have nice balance of wear protection and gas mileage. As silver billet pointed out, Redline tends to blend on the thicker side of the range. Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, according to their product data sheet, has a 100C viscosity of 9.8cSt which makes it one of the "lightest" 5W-30 oils available, while their 5W-20 is shown at 8.6cSt. If you like Pennzoil Platinum and use it, which I do because I really like their gas to liquid base stock, and decide that "watery" 5W-20 is too thin for the Hemi and move up to the "thicker" 5W-30 Platinum you're only gaining about 1 cSt. Moving up to 5W-30 doesn't necessarily mean you're going to an oil with the viscosity of cold pancake syrup.

In case anyone thinks I'm just making these figures up or pulling them out of my a$$ I'd be happy to post their data sheets.

 

[silver billet]

Wouldn't that assume they did nothing else with the engine? sounds like they have been running 5W-20 since 2007, the engine has been refined over the years, makes sense it would run optimally on their recommended oil weight?

The 6.4L recommends 0W-40 but also comes with MDS.

Well, I think nothing further is to be gained by discussing further, even though it has been respectful so far

But basically it comes down to this: the 2 hemis originally were designed to run on thicker oil, and as of 2016 the 6.4 was recommended to use 5w-40; the SRT variants are also still recommended to use -40 weights. Recent and various 5.7 manuals stated that 5w-30 could be used as well if -20 was not available.

Today the 5.7 in non SRT form is dropped down to -20, but why? That is the question. If you think it's because it's better for the motor, others in this thread have already mentioned better UOA analysis with thicker oils. If you think it's because of MDS, there are probably hundred+ (that we know about, self identified on various forums) that use 5w-30/40 and MDS works perfectly fine. If you think it's to increase fuel efficiency, as I do, then note that I've still managed 23 - 25 mpg on a recent trip running Redline 5w-30, with MDS disabled, so it's a negligible loss if any.

So while I don't think everybody should necessarily drop -20 and run out and refill with -30, I do think there is a case to be made to running it in several situations. As laid out in the 2500 manual, under hard working conditions they recommended the thicker oil, so if you do lots of heavy towing in the summer, it may be better to run -30. And if your engine ticks, like mine, it can be reduced or eliminated using what appears to be thicker oil with high moly content.

 

[PowerJrod]

Why do you think no one knows what the viscosity numbers mean? It's actually very simple and I've explained it before. Each grade has a viscosity range, it's not a set number for each grade and it's measured at 100C, which is the approximate engine operating temperature of 212F and at 40C, which is 104F. The viscosity is measured in centistokes, cSt. The SAE chart below shows the range for each grade, the top shows the W or winter rating and the bottom half starting with 8 shows the operating viscosity range. 20 grade has a minimum cSt of 6.9 to a maximum of 9.29, shown as <9.3. 30 grade has a minimum of 9.3 to a maximum of 12.49, shown as <12.5. The last number to the right is the High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) rating that is measured a150C and is shown in centipoise, cP.

So a 20 grade can have a viscosity of 9.29cSt and be almost a 30 grade and a 30 grade can have a viscosity of 9.3cSt and almost be a 20 grade. Most companies blend their 20 grades to be in the mid 8cSt range and their 30 grades in the mid 10cSt range, this gives them a product that falls into the middle range of each grade so they have nice balance of wear protection and gas mileage. As silver billet pointed out, Redline tends to blend on the thicker side of the range. Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, according to their product data sheet, has a 100C viscosity of 9.8cSt which makes it one of the "lightest" 5W-30 oils available, while their 5W-20 is shown at 8.6cSt. If you like Pennzoil Platinum and use it, which I do because I really like their gas to liquid base stock, and decide that "watery" 5W-20 is too thin for the Hemi and move up to the "thicker" 5W-30 Platinum you're only gaining about 1 cSt. Moving up to 5W-30 doesn't necessarily mean you're going to an oil with the viscosity of cold pancake syrup.

In case anyone thinks I'm just making these figures up or pulling them out of my a$$ I'd be happy to post their data sheets.



View attachment 64539

Owwww...my brain.