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For those with 6 speaker base stereo who have upgraded-What speaker did you use?
- Thread starter Rambiss
- Start date
Probably... hard to say for sure. The JL's are super smooth sounding, but I've always had power on those. I can tell you if it were not for my HAT Legatia 3 (we are talking $900+)... I'd most like be using the JL Audio. It's the best sounding dash speaker I've used other than the Legatias, but again, it's always been with an aftermarket amp. With the HK system, I like the Faital's on the stock amp. If I were running the base system with the doors and dash run in parallel, I'd have to try both and see, as the JL's might do better in that system.
wildh24
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If anyone is interested in these...I have a set of 5 Infinity Reference 3.5" speakers for sale.
Wsmith
Well-Known Member
I have the base system. I just installed the FaitalPro as recommended on this thread. They balanced the system very well, I had to reduce my mid and highs significantly. Perhaps the fact that they are "stronger" than the OEM, kind of seems that I lost some mid base punch from the door speakers. to solve this, next is a single 10" sub. I will have it professionally done as the last system I installed was in a 79 Silverado. It was pretty basic back then.
brian42
Ram Guru
Just got mine in the mail yesterday. Unlike the Alpine and HK that have the digital cutoff, the base audio does not and needs some bass blockers.
ajkeence99
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Say you put the Infinity 3032 speakers in the dash and went to add the Infinity 9633 in the doors on the base system. What would you need to do to make the speakers operate at the same power levels as stock? Resistors of some sort?
Wsmith
Well-Known Member
I am thinking of doing the same. Not familiar with bass blockers, I know their purpose but how are they installed? Harness, or splicing and I don't even know where or what I am looking for. Any help would be appreciated.
brian42
Ram Guru
They go on the (+) lead between the connector and the speaker. Crutchfield sends you both wires already with connectors crimped on each end. Others just send the bass blocker and you have to splice it into the (+) wire.
A quick note - the Metra 72-7902 connectors are only for the dash speakers. The door speakers are Metra 72-6515.
Here are the Crutchfield ones I have (600Hz @ 4 ohm, 300Hz @ 8 ohm):
I also have the PAC BB-4PR (1.2KHz @ 4 ohm, 600Hz @ 8 ohm):
https://catalog.pac-audio.com/catalog/specialty-items/bb-4pr
The Crutchfield ones are ready to go compared to the PAC ones which saves some splicing and possible sound quality issues (however slight).
Each speaker has a different tracer color to identify the speaker but the the (+) wire is violet and the (-) wire is yellow for the truck harness/connector.
Here's a diagram I got from "the" thread (5th Gen Stock Stereo Upgrade Options?):
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I used the Crutchfield ones shown above (300 Hz @ 8 ohm). They simply plug in between the Metra adapter and the speaker with corresponding spade clips. One of mine had a bad solder and the wire fell off but I was able to repair it easy enough with a butt connector. I'm confident Crutchfield would have taken care of me no questions asked.
brian42
Ram Guru
Finally installed my speakers yesterday. I went with the faital PRO 3FE22 8 ohm units.
Disclaimer: The following is merely my experience and opinion regarding my speaker replacement. My personal tastes, desires, and budget may not be in line with yours. I take everything with a grain of salt and I hope you do too as everything that follows is almost completely subjective. YMMV.
They are considerably brighter than the OEM ones without being tinny. The clarity is much better too, although I'm sure that would be with just about anything aftermarket you drop in there.
I've been messing with the EQ settings to dial things in and I'm about 80% there and already happy with my decision. They have much more of a presence that the OEM ones and I've had to go back to the drawing board for sound settings. Even with only 3 settings in the EQ it doesn't take much to make a change in the overall sound in the cab so it will take some time to dial in. I'm trying to find a good overall setting to play all of my music. I'd figure out settings for each type I listen to but I don't have any EQ memory settings and my days of geeking out and making a settings chart are long behind me. I just want to play whatever floats my boat that day and have it sound good.
I kept the same balance (8 ohm speakers) with the door speakers as I am not interested in replacing my door speakers so wanted to keep things as stock-ish as possible. I was concerned that a 4 ohm speaker would further accentuate the imbalance forcing me to keep the treble setting low so I wouldn't lose the mid-bass in the front doors. That's pure conjecture on my part but a concern I had none-the-less.
My install went as most other have posted but ran into my own issues as is customary with just about anything I do. I am incredibly OCD about things (especially vehicles) so I had to make some adjustments to install things to my standards.
I will not post many pictures as the dash speakers have been discussed ad nauseam.
The grills are in there tight and I thought I was going to break the tabs when removing them. I didn't but I came close as the passenger's side seems to be wedged under the pillar trim a little more than the driver's side. I was able to work at it to get the grill out but the corner tab was not at a natural angle when it came out. It's still there but I can see the discoloration at the base of the tab (at the grill) where the plastic is weakened.
The stock speaker. It is indeed an 8 ohm speaker. I don't think there's a crossover built into the audio unit (like the amplified Alpine and HK) as there is a high pass filter (capacitor) attached to it:
The new speaker:
To select the mounts I was going to use I inspected the dash openings to determine which direction would have the best open area for the connection tabs on the faital PROs. I lined up the speakers so that the driver's side speaker tabs were facing inward (towards the center of the dash) and the passenger's side speaker tabs were facing forward (towards the hood). Luckily there's ample room in the pocket for the bass blockers and wiring but I wanted to make sure the tabs would be clear of interference when I installed the speakers (I said I was OCD).
Where most have only removed 1 of the unused mounts I removed both of the ones I did not use so that it was an even and flat fit. This also allowed the foam gasket (vibration insulation) to maximize contact. The two opposing mounts that I used on the speaker needed to be modified as they are a little shorter than the distance between the zip nuts. Others have tapped new holes in the plastic and not modified the mounts but I opted to use the OEM locations with the limited working space and my sausage fingers.
To do that I used my rotary tool and cutting wheel (some have used tin snips). I cut off the two mounts I wasn't going to use then opened up the two mounts I used. I cut the loop piece out of the end so that it was forked and ground down the raised lip for about 1/2 of the mount so that the screw would make full contact with the mount (did I mention I was OCD?).
I used the Metra 72-7902 connectors to make life easier...I thought. Turns out that they are wired backwards (out of phase). I'm not sure if they are all this way or if I'm in the minority but check your Metra connector to see how the wires line up. The white wire is (+) and the black wire is (-). The OEM connector has a different tracer for each speaker location but the main colors for all speaker connectors are violet (+) and yellow (-):
Doing a test fit (I lined up the connectors but did not press them into place) I found out that the Metra connectors are wired backwards (out of phase). I called Crutchfield and their recommendation was to cut the connectors off and put new ones on (larger connector on black wire and smaller connector on white wire). While this solves the issue you will have to remember that the colors are now opposite. Not acceptable for my OCD.
I had 3 options:
1. Not use the connector, clip the factory connector, put the spade connectors on the OEM wires, and connect the bass blockers/speakers.
2. Clip the connectors on the Metra wires and put new ones on.
3. Figure out how to swap the pins in the Metra connector.
There was only option that I deemed acceptable. I decided to figure out how to remove the pins and swap sides. As I discovered it is not as simple as it seems. I will spare the tedious experimentation and slew of expletives and skip to the process. On the back of the connector there is a little lock/flap that has two very small (and easily damaged) tabs and loops. I used a very small (electronic) flat blade screwdriver to pry those loops slightly out. Then I put a pick tool between the wires in the back of the plug and popped the tab up:
Then I used the pick tool in the pin side and gently pushed it along the pin on the 'top' of the pin (picture above shows the plug in the 'up' position). Applying a little pressure with the pick tool and gently pulling on the wire I was able to ease the pin out of the back of the connector with moderate effort. I'm not sure how it's held in there but it's not the traditional locking tab you see in many other types of plugs (like Molex connectors). Once you have both pins out swap sides (if you forget which side is which compare it to your truck connector so that the white wire lines up with the violet wire and the black wire lines up with the yellow wire). Make sure the pins are fully re-seated in the connector and close the locking tab and make sure it latches in the loops so it doesn't come open.
Next is the bass blockers. As others have said the spade tabs fit nicely into the Metra connectors. The plastic covers for the connectors should be touching (or very close) when they are fully seated. Like DrDrew, I was not impressed with the connectors. Mine seemed to be done at different pressures. Two seemed to be just enough for the crimp and the others seemed like there was way too much pressure used (one of the insulators was cracked). I wasn't going to see them and they would not be subjected to weather buried in the dash so it was not worth trying to get replacements and wait longer to install my speakers (convenience overrode OCD in this rare case).
I connected the white and black wires to the speaker. I used some due diligence so that I did not break the tabs on the speaker. The red dot over the larger tab is the (+) tab. The white wire (with the bass blocker installed in-line) is the (+) wire and had the larger tab so it's fairly idiot-proof (bass blocker should be installed on the (+) wire). I plugged the Metra connector into the truck plug and fed the wires down into the dash pockets. Luckily the pockets have plenty of room as the Crutchfield bass blockers add 7" or so if wiring. I centered the speakers over the mounts, snugged down the screws, and fired up the audio. Once I confirmed that both speakers were working I popped the grills back in and put my tools away.
What I thought was going to be an hour ended up being about four to get it done. My efforts, as usual, are more the exception than the rule. Hope this helps anyone considering this.
Getting this done was a consolidation of a lot if information I collected from others. Thanks to the following who made this possible: @YoAdrian (speaker specs), @I Love Grits (base audio wiring diagram), @Rambiss (for starting this thread for just the base audio system), and @Sonnie (for recommending the faital PRO speakers).
Disclaimer: The following is merely my experience and opinion regarding my speaker replacement. My personal tastes, desires, and budget may not be in line with yours. I take everything with a grain of salt and I hope you do too as everything that follows is almost completely subjective. YMMV.
They are considerably brighter than the OEM ones without being tinny. The clarity is much better too, although I'm sure that would be with just about anything aftermarket you drop in there.
I've been messing with the EQ settings to dial things in and I'm about 80% there and already happy with my decision. They have much more of a presence that the OEM ones and I've had to go back to the drawing board for sound settings. Even with only 3 settings in the EQ it doesn't take much to make a change in the overall sound in the cab so it will take some time to dial in. I'm trying to find a good overall setting to play all of my music. I'd figure out settings for each type I listen to but I don't have any EQ memory settings and my days of geeking out and making a settings chart are long behind me. I just want to play whatever floats my boat that day and have it sound good.
I kept the same balance (8 ohm speakers) with the door speakers as I am not interested in replacing my door speakers so wanted to keep things as stock-ish as possible. I was concerned that a 4 ohm speaker would further accentuate the imbalance forcing me to keep the treble setting low so I wouldn't lose the mid-bass in the front doors. That's pure conjecture on my part but a concern I had none-the-less.
My install went as most other have posted but ran into my own issues as is customary with just about anything I do. I am incredibly OCD about things (especially vehicles) so I had to make some adjustments to install things to my standards.
I will not post many pictures as the dash speakers have been discussed ad nauseam.
The grills are in there tight and I thought I was going to break the tabs when removing them. I didn't but I came close as the passenger's side seems to be wedged under the pillar trim a little more than the driver's side. I was able to work at it to get the grill out but the corner tab was not at a natural angle when it came out. It's still there but I can see the discoloration at the base of the tab (at the grill) where the plastic is weakened.
The stock speaker. It is indeed an 8 ohm speaker. I don't think there's a crossover built into the audio unit (like the amplified Alpine and HK) as there is a high pass filter (capacitor) attached to it:
The new speaker:
To select the mounts I was going to use I inspected the dash openings to determine which direction would have the best open area for the connection tabs on the faital PROs. I lined up the speakers so that the driver's side speaker tabs were facing inward (towards the center of the dash) and the passenger's side speaker tabs were facing forward (towards the hood). Luckily there's ample room in the pocket for the bass blockers and wiring but I wanted to make sure the tabs would be clear of interference when I installed the speakers (I said I was OCD).
Where most have only removed 1 of the unused mounts I removed both of the ones I did not use so that it was an even and flat fit. This also allowed the foam gasket (vibration insulation) to maximize contact. The two opposing mounts that I used on the speaker needed to be modified as they are a little shorter than the distance between the zip nuts. Others have tapped new holes in the plastic and not modified the mounts but I opted to use the OEM locations with the limited working space and my sausage fingers.
To do that I used my rotary tool and cutting wheel (some have used tin snips). I cut off the two mounts I wasn't going to use then opened up the two mounts I used. I cut the loop piece out of the end so that it was forked and ground down the raised lip for about 1/2 of the mount so that the screw would make full contact with the mount (did I mention I was OCD?).
I used the Metra 72-7902 connectors to make life easier...I thought. Turns out that they are wired backwards (out of phase). I'm not sure if they are all this way or if I'm in the minority but check your Metra connector to see how the wires line up. The white wire is (+) and the black wire is (-). The OEM connector has a different tracer for each speaker location but the main colors for all speaker connectors are violet (+) and yellow (-):
Doing a test fit (I lined up the connectors but did not press them into place) I found out that the Metra connectors are wired backwards (out of phase). I called Crutchfield and their recommendation was to cut the connectors off and put new ones on (larger connector on black wire and smaller connector on white wire). While this solves the issue you will have to remember that the colors are now opposite. Not acceptable for my OCD.
I had 3 options:
1. Not use the connector, clip the factory connector, put the spade connectors on the OEM wires, and connect the bass blockers/speakers.
2. Clip the connectors on the Metra wires and put new ones on.
3. Figure out how to swap the pins in the Metra connector.
There was only option that I deemed acceptable. I decided to figure out how to remove the pins and swap sides. As I discovered it is not as simple as it seems. I will spare the tedious experimentation and slew of expletives and skip to the process. On the back of the connector there is a little lock/flap that has two very small (and easily damaged) tabs and loops. I used a very small (electronic) flat blade screwdriver to pry those loops slightly out. Then I put a pick tool between the wires in the back of the plug and popped the tab up:
Then I used the pick tool in the pin side and gently pushed it along the pin on the 'top' of the pin (picture above shows the plug in the 'up' position). Applying a little pressure with the pick tool and gently pulling on the wire I was able to ease the pin out of the back of the connector with moderate effort. I'm not sure how it's held in there but it's not the traditional locking tab you see in many other types of plugs (like Molex connectors). Once you have both pins out swap sides (if you forget which side is which compare it to your truck connector so that the white wire lines up with the violet wire and the black wire lines up with the yellow wire). Make sure the pins are fully re-seated in the connector and close the locking tab and make sure it latches in the loops so it doesn't come open.
Next is the bass blockers. As others have said the spade tabs fit nicely into the Metra connectors. The plastic covers for the connectors should be touching (or very close) when they are fully seated. Like DrDrew, I was not impressed with the connectors. Mine seemed to be done at different pressures. Two seemed to be just enough for the crimp and the others seemed like there was way too much pressure used (one of the insulators was cracked). I wasn't going to see them and they would not be subjected to weather buried in the dash so it was not worth trying to get replacements and wait longer to install my speakers (convenience overrode OCD in this rare case).
I connected the white and black wires to the speaker. I used some due diligence so that I did not break the tabs on the speaker. The red dot over the larger tab is the (+) tab. The white wire (with the bass blocker installed in-line) is the (+) wire and had the larger tab so it's fairly idiot-proof (bass blocker should be installed on the (+) wire). I plugged the Metra connector into the truck plug and fed the wires down into the dash pockets. Luckily the pockets have plenty of room as the Crutchfield bass blockers add 7" or so if wiring. I centered the speakers over the mounts, snugged down the screws, and fired up the audio. Once I confirmed that both speakers were working I popped the grills back in and put my tools away.
What I thought was going to be an hour ended up being about four to get it done. My efforts, as usual, are more the exception than the rule. Hope this helps anyone considering this.
Getting this done was a consolidation of a lot if information I collected from others. Thanks to the following who made this possible: @YoAdrian (speaker specs), @I Love Grits (base audio wiring diagram), @Rambiss (for starting this thread for just the base audio system), and @Sonnie (for recommending the faital PRO speakers).
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That's a great write up, thank you. I've been so busy at work (Pool Construction) that I haven't even thought about doing the swap yet. But I will this "off season" for sure. I'm still debating the bass blockers, but I'll have to dig back into everyone's opinions before I order everything up.
brian42
Ram Guru
I'm not an FCA engineer but here's what I've gathered from 18 months of RAM ownership:
The base audio is different than the other "premium" audios. The Alpine and HK have an external amplifier with an electronic crossover for the dash speakers (aka high pass filter aka bass blocker). The base (6 speaker) audio is amplified in the head unit so high level signals come out of the radio (vice low level fed to an amplifier). There is no filter on this signal going to the speakers. That is why the dash speakers have a capacitor soldered to them...to filter out the low frequencies.
DrDrew (post #66) installed the faital PRO speakers without bass blockers. He went back and installed them and was happier.
I also contacted Metra about the connector wiring. I'm not the first one to call and tell them it's backwards. This is my first FCA vehicle so I don't know if the wires were the other way pre-2019 or not. At some point they will probably get it sorted out so that you don't have to swap connectors or pins.
The base audio is different than the other "premium" audios. The Alpine and HK have an external amplifier with an electronic crossover for the dash speakers (aka high pass filter aka bass blocker). The base (6 speaker) audio is amplified in the head unit so high level signals come out of the radio (vice low level fed to an amplifier). There is no filter on this signal going to the speakers. That is why the dash speakers have a capacitor soldered to them...to filter out the low frequencies.
DrDrew (post #66) installed the faital PRO speakers without bass blockers. He went back and installed them and was happier.
I also contacted Metra about the connector wiring. I'm not the first one to call and tell them it's backwards. This is my first FCA vehicle so I don't know if the wires were the other way pre-2019 or not. At some point they will probably get it sorted out so that you don't have to swap connectors or pins.
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Scram1500
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The problem with the base 6 speaker (only 4 channels) is that the door and dash speakers are connected in parallel and "tuned" together. Changing one upsets the balance for the other. They should really be upgraded together, but then something else will be unbalanced. In my case it has become upgrade the whole system or leave it alone. I took out the 3.5" 4 ohm kickers with 4 ohm resistors and put the OEM's back in. It was just too much sound from the dash, nice and loud, but not much mid or bass from the doors. Simply fading a little to the front, a notch or two up on the treble/mid makes the OEM base 6 setup sound much better
brian42
Ram Guru
The faital PROs are definitely more noticeable than the OEM dash speakers but nothing that dropping a notch or two on the treble can't compensate for.
Sticking with the the OEM impedence of 8 ohms definitely kept things more balanced IMO. Adding a resistor to a 4 ohm speaker will help balance the load between the two speaker loops but you are still losing 1/2 of the voltage in that loop across the resistor and not the speaker so that will be a factor also.
Power (P) = Current (I) x Voltage (V), or P=IV. Even though you have the same current going through that loop as the OEM setup you have half the power going through the dash speaker as the other half of the power in that loop is being dropped across the resistor with the other half of the voltage.
I held off getting dash speakers until now because of so many people having mixed reviews on the aftermarket dash speakers installed. Intended audio modifications and everyone's subjective opinions (everyone has unique listening preferences) made it difficult for me to confidently select a replacement speaker. After reading about people's experience with the faital PRO it seemed I had found my path. Once I learned it came in an 8 ohm version I knew that's what I wanted, even though I had to modify the cage/mounts to fit my dash.
The door speakers are good enough for me plus I don't want to deal with pulling door panels, testing speaker phases, ANC bypass, etc.
One man's trash is another man's treasure. Not everything works for everyone, which is why there's so much selection out there (including to do nothing at all). It took me almost a year to finally install some new dash speakers and I'm very satisfied with my choice. It was worth the wait to not go through a few unhappy options. Plus, I still have plenty of lower frequencies coming from the front doors to make me happy.
Just my .02
Sticking with the the OEM impedence of 8 ohms definitely kept things more balanced IMO. Adding a resistor to a 4 ohm speaker will help balance the load between the two speaker loops but you are still losing 1/2 of the voltage in that loop across the resistor and not the speaker so that will be a factor also.
Power (P) = Current (I) x Voltage (V), or P=IV. Even though you have the same current going through that loop as the OEM setup you have half the power going through the dash speaker as the other half of the power in that loop is being dropped across the resistor with the other half of the voltage.
I held off getting dash speakers until now because of so many people having mixed reviews on the aftermarket dash speakers installed. Intended audio modifications and everyone's subjective opinions (everyone has unique listening preferences) made it difficult for me to confidently select a replacement speaker. After reading about people's experience with the faital PRO it seemed I had found my path. Once I learned it came in an 8 ohm version I knew that's what I wanted, even though I had to modify the cage/mounts to fit my dash.
The door speakers are good enough for me plus I don't want to deal with pulling door panels, testing speaker phases, ANC bypass, etc.
One man's trash is another man's treasure. Not everything works for everyone, which is why there's so much selection out there (including to do nothing at all). It took me almost a year to finally install some new dash speakers and I'm very satisfied with my choice. It was worth the wait to not go through a few unhappy options. Plus, I still have plenty of lower frequencies coming from the front doors to make me happy.
Just my .02
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ramButz
Ram Guru
your right.when i installed my dash speakers to replace the "Alpine".it was a simple "Drop In"no bass blocker or anything like that.i left the dash and rear ceiling speakers still connected to the stock amp(yes i never removed it).but as for the other speakers i used and "AfterMarket"amp.all work great together
!
OC.13
Active Member
Has anyone tried useing two 4 ohm speakers up front? Would that keep things balanced? As you would have half the power to front door and half power to dash. Wondering if this would be a better solution, and offer a wider selection of speakers? Any thoughts or experiences appreciated.
Scram1500
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Going 4 ohm in the dash sends more power to the speaker but then drowns out the door speaker which it is wired to. The door speaker is 2 ohm I believe. The other problem is the head unit can overheat sending more watts now that there is less resistance, probably won't happen but the potential is there. If you really want to replace the dash speaker I'd stick with 8 ohm
OC.13
Active Member
That's exactly why I was thinking replacing the 8 ohm in dash and 2 ohm in door with. 4 ohm in each . Would net close to the same overall resistance seen by the head unit. I believe stock is about 1.6 ohm overall and with changing both door and dash to a 4 ohm it would net 2 ohm seen by head unit. Wondering if anything has done this and if it sounds good?
