Conflicting Oil Standards in Owners Manual

[WXman]

So according to Mark @RamCares , the Pennzoil Platinum Euro technically doesn't meet spec at the moment because it was reformulated and hasn't been approved. We all know it's still the same great or better oil. Fact is, it's not approved per what he said.

Valvoline's 5W40 has two labels and if you order their oil you never know which label will be on the bottle. Some are stamped MS-12991 and some aren't.

And today I found out that the Mopar branded oil is a no go. There is none available and no ETA.

I refuse to pay $15/quart for "luxury" oils that still probably don't have the cert stamped on the bottle for warranty protection.

THIS is the ridiculous B.S. that makes me second guess my decision to stick with FCA for my new truck.

 

[Zoompastu]

So according to Mark @RamCares , the Pennzoil Platinum Euro technically doesn't meet spec at the moment because it was reformulated and hasn't been approved. We all know it's still the same great or better oil. Fact is, it's not approved per what he said.

Valvoline's 5W40 has two labels and if you order their oil you never know which label will be on the bottle. Some are stamped MS-12991 and some aren't.

And today I found out that the Mopar branded oil is a no go. There is none available and no ETA.

I refuse to pay $15/quart for "luxury" oils that still probably don't have the cert stamped on the bottle for warranty protection.

THIS is the ridiculous B.S. that makes me second guess my decision to stick with FCA for my new truck.

But that’s always been part of having an eco-diesel. The oil changes have always been expensive compared to hemi or Cummins services. Bottom line is ram does have the nicest truck. This will all get sorted out quickly and we won’t have to deal with this going forward. Worst case scenario you just make sure they are using Pennzoil and not a blue bottle of Rotella. Realistically how often are you getting an oil service once a year… Maybe twice. I know this may come off as being snarky and it’s not meant to be so I apologize in advance but this is not your fathers diesel. This engine is refined and very technologically advanced and as such requires a high quality oil. Even when I had a pentastar V6 1500 I still ran Pennzoil ultra platinum because it really is Excellent oil. And how much did you pay for your new truck? Had to be at least $50,000 MSRP so let’s be honest you’re not driving a Kia forte. It is a luxury truck. Could be worse though… Mercedes A service Costs around $450 and B service costs about $600. So a $250 ecodiesel service is just a drop in the bucket.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again there is nothing economical about owning an eco-diesel truck. After you factor in maintenance insurance initial purchase price fuel cost.... it is all higher than the gas truck. We’re not saving any money with the diesel. If anything at a minimum it’s a wash.

 

[Aseras]

Okay so after an hours long call to FCA Canada today I was told that the owners manual was misprinted and the dealers were misinformed on what oil is to be used in the NEW 2020 ecodiesel motors.

Shell rotella is NOT to be used and pennzoil platinum euro is the only oil they recommend at this time.

They are also going to either reimburse me for the $150 filter and $100 worth of oil I installed just a couple weeks and few hundred km back. OR they are going to provide me with one free oil change at the dealer but not until the dealers have been informed about this situation. During this time they would perform the two outstanding recalls on my truck (wiper arm nut and reverse camera update)

I'd love for a letter that the manual is a misprint. That's free engines for everyone stuff right there.

 

[KNGSNK11]

I know the virus bs may be slowing progress on verifying which oil we can use, but can we get a rough eta when things will get verified?
I'm at 4500 miles and a oil change is due soon, id like for the correct oil to be used the first time, I dont have time to chase tail back and forth to the dealership. FCA needs to pull their heads out of their asses and had this worked out before the first ecodiesel rolled out of the factory.

 

[awsimeone]

@RamCares is anything being done to educate dealers on the correct oil to use on the gen3?

I’m having an issue locally where they installed rotella t6 on my gen3 and are refusing to correct it. Their response was “our parts guy said they are the same”

I don’t have anything against rotella t6, my concern is where it was noted earlier by ram cares that it could cause turbo coking and other issues.


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[Sascwatch]

I opened a big case up with FCA Canada to get this issue resolved, there is now a new revision 4 manual on the mopar owners website that has ONLY the correct ms-12991 pennzoil euro platinum oil listed for the 3.0 diesel.

If you contact FCA they will get this issue resolved for you, I installed rotella t6 before knowing it was the incorrect oil and FCA Canada opened up an investigation to see why the rotella was recommended when it is the wrong oil for the new engines.

TLDR: installed oil listed in owners manual which was incorrect, contacted FCA Canada and they resolved the issue. Dealers will be updated once investigation is complete.

 

[awsimeone]

I opened a big case up with FCA Canada to get this issue resolved, there is now a new revision 4 manual on the mopar owners website that has ONLY the correct ms-12991 pennzoil euro platinum oil listed for the 3.0 diesel.

If you contact FCA they will get this issue resolved for you, I installed rotella t6 before knowing it was the incorrect oil and FCA Canada opened up an investigation to see why the rotella was recommended when it is the wrong oil for the new engines.

TLDR: installed oil listed in owners manual which was incorrect, contacted FCA Canada and they resolved the issue. Dealers will be updated once investigation is complete.

Thanks for the response, the dealer knows it’s wrong, they pulled out a sheet stating the correct oil and mopar part number thinking they would prove me wrong, it proved me correct as it had the right specification oil and even a mopar part number for quarts gallons and bulk listed on it, it did not list anywhere the shell rotella t6 that was installed. That’s when their argument changed to “our parts guy said it’s the same”


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[Sascwatch]

Thanks for the response, the dealer knows it’s wrong, they pulled out a sheet stating the correct oil and mopar part number thinking they would prove me wrong, it proved me correct as it had the right specification oil and even a mopar part number for quarts gallons and bulk listed on it, it did not list anywhere the shell rotella t6 that was installed. That’s when their argument changed to “our parts guy said it’s the same”


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They are very different oils and the rotella oil will cause issues with the turbo according to FCA, I ran the rotella for close to 1000km before getting it changed out to the pennzoil euro oil.

rotella has chrysler spec ms-10902 and the pennzoil is ms-12991.

My local dealer said that they use rotella even tho their computer says to use pennzoil euro platinum. I guess it’ll take couple warranty repairs before they realize they screwed up.

 

[Aseras]

I opened a big case up with FCA Canada to get this issue resolved, there is now a new revision 4 manual on the mopar owners website that has ONLY the correct ms-12991 pennzoil euro platinum oil listed for the 3.0 diesel.

If you contact FCA they will get this issue resolved for you, I installed rotella t6 before knowing it was the incorrect oil and FCA Canada opened up an investigation to see why the rotella was recommended when it is the wrong oil for the new engines.

TLDR: installed oil listed in owners manual which was incorrect, contacted FCA Canada and they resolved the issue. Dealers will be updated once investigation is complete.

Too bad they can't be bothered to put ANY manuals in their ram app the advertise for having manuals.

Posting a update online doesn't alert owners. As far as I'm concerned until theres a full blown recall or I get a new manual or supplement by certified mail or other trackable means FCA is fully liable for thier supposedly incorrect manual.

 

[Aseras]

They are very different oils and the rotella oil will cause issues with the turbo according to FCA, I ran the rotella for close to 1000km before getting it changed out to the pennzoil euro oil.

rotella has chrysler spec ms-10902 and the pennzoil is ms-12991.

My local dealer said that they use rotella even tho their computer says to use pennzoil euro platinum. I guess it’ll take couple warranty repairs before they realize they screwed up.

Rotella t6 is a low ash oil low SAPS. The oil they spec is a high SAPS. Sulphated ash, phosphorous and sulfur. High saps oils are NOT safe for dpf systems and strict emissions systems.

More idiodacy going on at FCA. They are going to be replacing a lot of DPF filters under warranty or after the class action lawsuit.

 

[KNGSNK11]

Rotella t6 is a low ash oil low SAPS. The oil they spec is a high SAPS. Sulphated ash, phosphorous and sulfur. High saps oils are NOT safe for dpf systems and strict emissions systems.

More idiodacy going on at FCA. They are going to be replacing a lot of DPF filters under warranty or after the class action lawsuit.

I'm glad a had the dealer do my first oil change then this way if an oil issues arises then they will have it documented and I will be covered.
This is my first go with FCA/ram and its not starting off to good.
I do hope they get this figured out I really do enjoy my little diesel motor.

 

[Synergy26]

Where the hell can we buy the oil we need in 5 quart jugs?

 

[KNGSNK11]

Where the hell can we buy the oil we need in 5 quart jugs?

Ive been keeping an eye out when I go to auto part stores and Walmart etc I have yet to find the Pennzoil Euro oil on the shelf's, I see the regular Pennzoil platinum oil but nothing with euro on the label.

 

[Zoompastu]

you’re not gonna find the proper oil at Walmart. Should be able to order it through NAPA auto parts and I believe Amazon. And of course the most obvious answer is you can buy it at the dealer.

This thread is basically dead. Everything has been hashed out at this point. Start from the beginning of the thread and read through. We’re starting to repeat ourselves . Pennzoil euro platinum is SN plus for light duty diesel engines. It will not cause coking in the turbo like the Rotella will. Rotella short term will not damage your engine. It’s not poison, but it is not correct either. This whole situation has been frustrating for the consumer.

 

[EugeneYYZ]

I opened a big case up with FCA Canada to get this issue resolved, there is now a new revision 4 manual on the mopar owners website that has ONLY the correct ms-12991 pennzoil euro platinum oil listed for the 3.0 diesel.

If you contact FCA they will get this issue resolved for you, I installed rotella t6 before knowing it was the incorrect oil and FCA Canada opened up an investigation to see why the rotella was recommended when it is the wrong oil for the new engines.

TLDR: installed oil listed in owners manual which was incorrect, contacted FCA Canada and they resolved the issue. Dealers will be updated once investigation is complete.

The funny things Penzoil E.P. = BMW LL01 , but interesting things , bmw's diesels which used to have LL04 ( = RotellaT6) has more engine bearings failures than the engines which used old type LL01 oil specs . LL04 = ecology , LL01 engine life longivity , (personally i choose LL01 ) And now FCA goes back to Penzoil E.Plat. which is meet bmw LL 01 specs .

p.s. my 2nd gen EcoD. used Rotella T6 5w/40 and it was broken apart at 70.000km

 

[Aseras]

The biggest problem with oil and diesels is fuel dilution. Now add ULSD which has virtually no lubricity, or biodiesel which has good to fair lubricity compared to old diesel fuel oil but also tends to be the worst offender of fuel dilution. It will also fail the stryofoam test a lot of BS mechanics use to say you put gas in the tank or whatever. so if you have a failure, get a sample and send it to a lab.

diesels were bulletprooof before all the emissions crap started getting bolted on and things changed. Now the HPFP chew themselves up from lack of lubrication they used to get from the diesel fuel oil, the EGR pumps soot into the engine and it goes right into the oil. ( the 3rd gen at least NOW pulls egr post DPF ). The DPF chokes the engine, a regen wastes fuel and the turbo loads harder and cokes up on ash and NOW that is going into the EGR on the 3rd gen.

All of those things add up to hostile lubrication environments and I don't think 10k oil changes are a good idea. I'd be willing to be the using cheapest POS walmart/amazon oil with 3k oil changes would give you better longevity than the fancy oil and all the BS grades and specs be damned.

engine would probably last forever with a EGR and DPF delete as a diesel should over a gasoline engine. Nothing is engineered for longevity, only to get it past warranty, and then to sell you a new one. This world and our money driven economy suck. I work for a NFP ecological institution and conservation, I'm all for saving the planet, but some BS like the ethanol in gas making more emissions and some of the stupid emissions BS and cheating and lies and other things and the total ignorance of PHEV in trucks where it is needed most really bothers me.

I'd be all for a crush a 20 yr old truck to get it off the road and get a legal waiver to do whatever you want to your current truck. Mods and tunes for clunkers.

 

[Aseras]

Where the hell can we buy the oil we need in 5 quart jugs?

In Europe, next to the magic wands and fairies.

 

[Aseras]

I opened a big case up with FCA Canada to get this issue resolved, there is now a new revision 4 manual on the mopar owners website that has ONLY the correct ms-12991 pennzoil euro platinum oil listed for the 3.0 diesel.

If you contact FCA they will get this issue resolved for you, I installed rotella t6 before knowing it was the incorrect oil and FCA Canada opened up an investigation to see why the rotella was recommended when it is the wrong oil for the new engines.

TLDR: installed oil listed in owners manual which was incorrect, contacted FCA Canada and they resolved the issue. Dealers will be updated once investigation is complete.

Until there's a recall or manuals are mailed out with the corrections with proof of service, rotella still is the correct oil. Just becuase it's 2020 and you can change a website in 5 clicks doesn't update sold vehicles and their manuals.99.9% of edocdiesels owners have no idea and plenty of dealers and other mechanics wont ever know either.

FCA is boned because they can't proofread or engineer properly anymore. Too many book engineers run by bean counters and not enough get **** done right real world dirty hands engineers. They should just be offering up free engines and turbos now for the next ecodiesel fiasco that's coming in a few years when these start biting it.

 

[EugeneYYZ]

Until there's a recall or manuals are mailed out with the corrections with proof of service, rotella still is the correct oil. Just becuase it's 2020 and you can change a website in 5 clicks doesn't update sold vehicles and their manuals.99.9% of edocdiesels owners have no idea and plenty of dealers and other mechanics wont ever know either.

FCA is boned because they can't proofread or engineer properly anymore. Too many book engineers run by bean counters and not enough get **** done right real world dirty hands engineers. They should just be offering up free engines and turbos now for the next ecodiesel fiasco that's coming in a few years when these start biting it.

The biggest problem with oil and diesels is fuel dilution. Now add ULSD which has virtually no lubricity, or biodiesel which has good to fair lubricity compared to old diesel fuel oil but also tends to be the worst offender of fuel dilution. It will also fail the stryofoam test a lot of BS mechanics use to say you put gas in the tank or whatever. so if you have a failure, get a sample and send it to a lab.

diesels were bulletprooof before all the emissions crap started getting bolted on and things changed. Now the HPFP chew themselves up from lack of lubrication they used to get from the diesel fuel oil, the EGR pumps soot into the engine and it goes right into the oil. ( the 3rd gen at least NOW pulls egr post DPF ). The DPF chokes the engine, a regen wastes fuel and the turbo loads harder and cokes up on ash and NOW that is going into the EGR on the 3rd gen.

All of those things add up to hostile lubrication environments and I don't think 10k oil changes are a good idea. I'd be willing to be the using cheapest POS walmart/amazon oil with 3k oil changes would give you better longevity than the fancy oil and all the BS grades and specs be damned.

engine would probably last forever with a EGR and DPF delete as a diesel should over a gasoline engine. Nothing is engineered for longevity, only to get it past warranty, and then to sell you a new one. This world and our money driven economy suck. I work for a NFP ecological institution and conservation, I'm all for saving the planet, but some BS like the ethanol in gas making more emissions and some of the stupid emissions BS and cheating and lies and other things and the total ignorance of PHEV in trucks where it is needed most really bothers me.

I'd be all for a crush a 20 yr old truck to get it off the road and get a legal waiver to do whatever you want to your current truck. Mods and tunes for clunkers.

Exactly , completely agree , it's marketologs time now , they runs all marketing stuff , they don't care about reliability of anything , just pass warranty and the rest goes to hell . Just $$$ sign in their eyes , just missed that time when engines can run 1.000.000 just with oil change .

 

[Aseras]

Exactly , completely agree , it's marketologs time now , they runs all marketing stuff , they don't care about reliability of anything , just pass warranty and the rest goes to hell . Just $$$ sign in their eyes , just missed that time when engines can run 1.000.000 just with oil change .

which is why I still have my 2000 Dakota. Just enough tech I can work on it and now that nearly everything has been replaced either by the extended warrantry ( THAT ONE paid for itself 100x over everything but the engine and transmission were replaced ) or when my mom killed the engine by taking it up 9000ft and a 100 mile drive with no oil in it.

It's bulletproof now. Just not rust proof.