Conflicting Oil Standards in Owners Manual

[Zoompastu]

Yes, @PolarXJ, the manuals will indeed be updated.

Mark
RamCares

Time out.... so you mean to tell me that an oil that is SN rated which is rated for spark ignition engines NOT compression ignition engines is what we are to use?!?! We’re gonna need a good explanation why we should not be using a diesel oil in our Diesel engines. Can you please provide us with useful information on this.
Thank you.

 

[WXman]

Time out.... so you mean to tell me that an oil that is SN rated which is rated for spark ignition engines NOT compression ignition engines is what we are to use?!?! We’re gonna need a good explanation why we should not be using a diesel oil in our Diesel engines. Can you please provide us with useful information on this.
Thank you.

Yeah as I understand it, the new emissions devices are extremely finicky. Medium and especially high SAPS oils are not healthy for the particulate filter and catalyst. They are wanting to make sure that the oil used in the new engine will not cause issues with the emissions equipment, so they are specifying "European" oils that are designed and created to be used in engines with direct injection, particulate filters, turbos, etc. Most of the oils that meet FCA MS-12991 are labeled as "gas and diesel" on the bottles.

Having said that, I would like for @RamCares to get us an explanation from the engineering team also about why we can't use diesel-specific oil like Rotella T6 anymore.

 

[Sascwatch]

I asked at two local dealers and both said to only use rotella and I also emailed mopar and got this response.


Thank you for contacting FCA Canada Customer Care – we appreciate your inquiry regarding the recommend oil to use for your 2020 RAM 1500, VIN: 1C6SRFLM8LN305910.

Your vehicle is equipped with an advanced technology Diesel Engine and an emission device designed to limit Diesel Particulate Emissions from being released into the atmosphere. The durability of your engine and life expectancy of this diesel particulate filter emission device is highly dependent on the use of the correct engine oil.

We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as Mopar or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is required.

I put rotella T6 in on my first oil change and will continue to because of its proven track record in diesel motors.

 

[Zoompastu]

I just want to make sure the correct fluid is used. I have a degree in automotive technology and I know for a fact an API SN Oil is never designed to be operated in a diesel engine. Some manufacturers make oil that can be used in both gas/diesel engines and it would be rated API SN CJ. When I worked for ram Rotella T6 is what we put in the previous Ecodiesel motors. The Mopar MS 12991 Pennzoil euro oil is a fantastic oil but it’s not certified API CJ Which means it is not designed for use in a diesel engine. Once again Mopar screwed up. It’s a good way to destroy the rod bearings just like the problem they had with the 2014 motors running an incorrect oil for the application.

 

[RamCares]

Time out.... so you mean to tell me that an oil that is SN rated which is rated for spark ignition engines NOT compression ignition engines is what we are to use?!?! We’re gonna need a good explanation why we should not be using a diesel oil in our Diesel engines. Can you please provide us with useful information on this.
Thank you.

Yeah as I understand it, the new emissions devices are extremely finicky. Medium and especially high SAPS oils are not healthy for the particulate filter and catalyst. They are wanting to make sure that the oil used in the new engine will not cause issues with the emissions equipment, so they are specifying "European" oils that are designed and created to be used in engines with direct injection, particulate filters, turbos, etc. Most of the oils that meet FCA MS-12991 are labeled as "gas and diesel" on the bottles.

Having said that, I would like for @RamCares to get us an explanation from the engineering team also about why we can't use diesel-specific oil like Rotella T6 anymore.

I asked at two local dealers and both said to only use rotella and I also emailed mopar and got this response.


Thank you for contacting FCA Canada Customer Care – we appreciate your inquiry regarding the recommend oil to use for your 2020 RAM 1500, VIN: 1C6SRFLM8LN305910.

Your vehicle is equipped with an advanced technology Diesel Engine and an emission device designed to limit Diesel Particulate Emissions from being released into the atmosphere. The durability of your engine and life expectancy of this diesel particulate filter emission device is highly dependent on the use of the correct engine oil.

We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as Mopar or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is required.

I put rotella T6 in on my first oil change and will continue to because of its proven track record in diesel motors.

Hi all,

I do apologize for the delay in my response, as I was awaiting a follow up from our engineering team on this matter. I have been advised that diesel oils like Shell Rotella should not be used as they will cause turbo coking and associated concerns as this engine has lower engine pressure than previous generation engines. Please know that the Pennzoil Platinum Euro has moved to SN+ with new formulation and it has not been validated. There are plans to test the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SP grade oil as soon as the virus situation progresses. Please do not hesitate to reach back out down the road, as I am happy to provide any additional updates I can.

Mark
RamCares

 

[Sascwatch]

Hi all,

I do apologize for the delay in my response, as I was awaiting a follow up from our engineering team on this matter. I have been advised that diesel oils like Shell Rotella should not be used as they will cause turbo coking and associated concerns as this engine has lower engine pressure than previous generation engines. Please know that the Pennzoil Platinum Euro has moved to SN+ with new formulation and it has not been validated. There are plans to test the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SP grade oil as soon as the virus situation progresses. Please do not hesitate to reach back out down the road, as I am happy to provide any additional updates I can.

Mark
RamCares

Why would dealers and FCA Canada be recommending and even installing rotella T6 into these trucks then?

 

[Zoompastu]

Hi all,

I do apologize for the delay in my response, as I was awaiting a follow up from our engineering team on this matter. I have been advised that diesel oils like Shell Rotella should not be used as they will cause turbo coking and associated concerns as this engine has lower engine pressure than previous generation engines. Please know that the Pennzoil Platinum Euro has moved to SN+ with new formulation and it has not been validated. There are plans to test the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SP grade oil as soon as the virus situation progresses. Please do not hesitate to reach back out down the road, as I am happy to provide any additional updates I can.

Mark
RamCares

Thank you Mark for the explanation. I really appreciate you and Ram reaching out to members of a forum and answering questions professionally. Just another reason why I wholeheartedly support FCA When I purchase trucks.

Please keep us updated on this but I have two additional questions.
1. There are several versions of Rotella oil and to be clear we are not to use Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic? If this is the case I would recommend a TSB being issued to the dealerships because it seems they’re not aware. I talked to the express lane technicians the other day at the dealership I used to work for and was told they use T6 for all ecodiesel oil services.

2. There was a TSB related to previous ecodiesel engines requiring a 30 minute oil drain interval followed by waiting 15 minutes after oil was added before starting the engine. Are these steps still necessary with the Gen3 ecodiesel?

 

[HST]

Why does FCA have to validate pennzoil euro if it already has the MS 12991 validation ?

 

[WXman]

Why does FCA have to validate pennzoil euro if it already has the MS 12991 validation ?

Because as he said in his response, the formulation has changed.

 

[HST]

2018 is when it changed according to the pennzoil site . SN plus . So i guess SP is a new rating.

 

[Zoompastu]

2018 is when it changed according to the pennzoil site . SN plus . So i guess SP is a new rating.

API - American Petroleum Institute
This defines whether an oil is suitable for gasoline or diesel engines. Gasoline engines: The service level category contains two letters. The first letter, S, indicates the oil is for gasoline engines. The codes are as follows:
• SN: For vehicles manufactured after 2010.
• SM: Vehicles manufactured between 2002-2009
• SJ: Vehicles manufactured before 2001

Diesel engines: The first letter, C, indicates the oil is for a diesel engine. The codes are:

• CJ-4: Four stroke high speed diesels manufactured from 2010
• CI-4: For vehicles built between 2002 and 2010
• CH-4: Vehicles built between 1998 and 2002

SN is why we are all taking this serious. SN oil is for gasoline engines ONLY!! This is why we are being super cautious. Never before has a gas oil been recommended in a diesel motor.

 

[Sascwatch]

It does say on the pennzoil site that the euro platinum oil can be used in light duty diesels. But with rotella being one of the best diesel oils out there it’s odd that they say not to use it.

I did my very first oil change with rotella because of dealer and owners manual recommendations and now I have to drain and fill. Is Chrysler going to pay for my oil and filter because of this?

 

[KNGSNK11]

Following.

 

[Zoompastu]

It does say on the pennzoil site that the euro platinum oil can be used in light duty diesels. But with rotella being one of the best diesel oils out there it’s odd that they say not to use it.

I did my very first oil change with rotella because of dealer and owners manual recommendations and now I have to drain and fill. Is Chrysler going to pay for my oil and filter because of this?

But what is a light duty diesel? Are we talking about a 1.4 L Volkswagen TDI? It is not specific and again SN oil in a diesel Defies the rules.

Technically yes the dealer you had it serviced at would need to pay to change the oil again. However you’re going to have a hard time convincing them to put a gasoline oil in a diesel engine at no cost to you especially when it says in the owners manual to use a high-quality diesel oil like Rotella. The contradiction in the owners manual throws a wrench in this situation.


Bring in a print out from this forum that shows Ram Cares responding and stating “to use the Pennzoil euro 5W 40 and not Rotella and that the owners manuals will be updated to reflect this” when you talk to the service manager. I wouldn’t bother talking to the service advisor about this because they will have to go to the manager for approval anyway or might block you 100%.

When you do talk to the manager be nice, calm, and patient. Don’t go in screaming yelling with your hair on fire “you idiots put the wrong oil in my truck!!” Truth be told it’s not their fault. Ecodiesels take Rotella oil up until this point. I was a service advisor at a ram dealer and I’m cautious of using anything other than Rotella in my truck which is why am asking all these questions. I talked to the oil change technicians at my old dealer and the Master tech. They had not heard of using a different oil other then Rotella in the 2020 ecodiesel.

Don’t be surprised if the manager does not change your oil out immediately. The manager may want to reach out to their FCA rep for further verification.

I’d be curious to know how this pans out so let us know.

 

[Sascwatch]

Okay so after an hours long call to FCA Canada today I was told that the owners manual was misprinted and the dealers were misinformed on what oil is to be used in the NEW 2020 ecodiesel motors.

Shell rotella is NOT to be used and pennzoil platinum euro is the only oil they recommend at this time.

They are also going to either reimburse me for the $150 filter and $100 worth of oil I installed just a couple weeks and few hundred km back. OR they are going to provide me with one free oil change at the dealer but not until the dealers have been informed about this situation. During this time they would perform the two outstanding recalls on my truck (wiper arm nut and reverse camera update)

 

[RamCares]

Why would dealers and FCA Canada be recommending and even installing rotella T6 into these trucks then?

Thank you Mark for the explanation. I really appreciate you and Ram reaching out to members of a forum and answering questions professionally. Just another reason why I wholeheartedly support FCA When I purchase trucks.

Please keep us updated on this but I have two additional questions.
1. There are several versions of Rotella oil and to be clear we are not to use Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic? If this is the case I would recommend a TSB being issued to the dealerships because it seems they’re not aware. I talked to the express lane technicians the other day at the dealership I used to work for and was told they use T6 for all ecodiesel oil services.

2. There was a TSB related to previous ecodiesel engines requiring a 30 minute oil drain interval followed by waiting 15 minutes after oil was added before starting the engine. Are these steps still necessary with the Gen3 ecodiesel?

Thank you both for taking the time to follow up on this matter. @Sascwatch - I am glad to see your most recent update and that you were able to obtain further clarification from Canadian Customer Care. Just to reiterate for clarification sake, we do not recommend Shell Rotella as using diesel oils like Shell Rotella will cause turbo coking and associated concerns as this engine has lower engine pressure than previous generation engines. We recommend 5W-40 Synthetic engine oil such that meets FCA Material Standard MS-12991. As soon as I am able to share any updates regarding the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SP grade oil validation, I will be sure to follow up accordingly.

Regarding the TSB you mentioned, @Zoompastu, I have been advised that the TSB applied to the 2014 Grand Cherokee only.

Mark
RamCares

 

[Zoompastu]

Thank you both for taking the time to follow up on this matter. @Sascwatch - I am glad to see your most recent update and that you were able to obtain further clarification from Canadian Customer Care. Just to reiterate for clarification sake, we do not recommend Shell Rotella as using diesel oils like Shell Rotella will cause turbo coking and associated concerns as this engine has lower engine pressure than previous generation engines. We recommend 5W-40 Synthetic engine oil such that meets FCA Material Standard MS-12991. As soon as I am able to share any updates regarding the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SP grade oil validation, I will be sure to follow up accordingly.

Regarding the TSB you mentioned, @Zoompastu, I have been advised that the TSB applied to the 2014 Grand Cherokee only.

Mark
RamCares

Thank you Mark

 

[Boston]

As a buyer sitting in the fence between the “simplicity “ of a hemi and a huge liking of diesels, this is worrisome.

Given the history of ED failures in the past, I don’t think (right now) that I can trust a dealer to read the changing oil specification directives from FCA and use the correct spec oil at change time.

 

[RamCares]

Thank you Mark

You are most welcome, @Zoompastu.

Mark
RamCares

 

[rugger1869]

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