Anyone getting a 2025 with the I6 Hurricane?

[silver billet]

No manufacturer puts small turbo engines in their HD trucks. Not sure what point you are trying to make be repeating that over and over againz or even singleing out Ford specifically

It's like your so close with the obseravation that "No manufacturer puts small turbo engines in their HD trucks".

I used Ford because they're the only manufacturer that was producing strong (hp/torque) turbo charged gas engines in trucks for many years, but refused to put them in their super duty. Instead they did it right by going out of their way to design a heavy duty NA gas engine even though they had ecoboost on the shelf ready and waiting for many years. It's all about the duty cycle (and probably even MPG plays a part), not the hp/torque.

 

[E.Hands]

25 horses?

That's not going to be noticeable in a 5,600 lb. vehicle.

I for one, would love to see the HP & TRQ curves laid out in an comparison overlay.
Or just the dyno plot of each engine so that we could see exactly which engine has better numbers in the normal driving range RPMs.

 

[E.Hands]

In an earlier test 0-60 for the HO with brake torque was 4.7; for the SO brake torque 5.2 and no brake torque 5.7. The HO without brake torque was not listed - that would have been insightful.

Source?

Official EPA gas mileage numbers: ZERO gain over the Hemi in the S.O. version, less than the Hemi in the H.O. version, plus you need mid-grade on the S.O. version. So essentially, you're paying more to drive the new engine than you did the Hemi. Just brilliant.

It's hard to imagine that the "Clown-World" we now live in would allow such a thing as an increase in power at the expense of economy. Right?

 

[mikeru82]

Nope, some of you are clearly and intentionally misreading this.

Clearly you must be right. The issue is never with the one single person arguing with half a dozen others.

Not at all. You CAN still work a half ton. Towing is a great example. But clearly the designs and intended audience is sinking lower and lower into passenger car duty and this latest engine is just proof of that.

I never said you can't. That was your inference from an earlier post. Do you not remember what you yourself posted? This is a direct quote... "it's much more of a passenger car". Of course you can work a half ton. I never claimed otherwise.

When I'm looking for my next truck (say I total mine tomorrow): the options are a good v8 vs a tiny turbo charged engine and I'm getting the v8.

Agreed, but probably not for the same reasons.

And this is proof of you intentionally misreading my statement. I brought it up as proof that the 5.7 can handle heavy duty usage. That's not irrelevant, what's irrelevant is that its no longer in the lineup because the reason it isn't there has nothing to do with reliability but power demands (it's just not big enough anymore to match the competition even as a base engine).

And this is proof that you're putting words into my mouth. I never once said the 5.7 Hemi isn't capable. Not sure why you're going off on this with me.

Again a "missreading". Obviously I'm well aware that all modern diesels in trucks these days are turbo charged so you could have used your head and figured out what I was saying: They don't put ecoboost turbo charged gassers in their trucks. I made the point several posts ago that they had the option of putting the ecoboost turbo in their super duty, but instead went way out of their way to design a large NA v8 instead. Even though the ecoboost could put out enough power, they refused to use it. That is the point here.

And you need to use your head and realize you made a foolish statement. You failed to include the fact that you were talking about gasoline turbo charged engines. See, only saying half of what you mean. We aren't mind readers.

The turbo diesels used in heavy duty trucks are a completely different class of engine. And at a certain point forced induction is needed if you want to tow very massive loads.

No argument with you on that. Not sure why you bring it up though since no one said anything to the contrary.

But that's not the options here for less powerful needs. The options are a small turbo charged gasser vs a large NA gasser putting out similar power numbers and they chose the NA gasser for the duty cycle of a hard working truck.

So now a half ton is a hard working truck and not a passenger car. Okay, got it.

At a certain point talking further is futile and I'm just running out of patience. Nothing personal.

I never take anything personal in a forum. It's good to have a thick skin.

 

[PetePA]

@silver billet What specifically do you not like about the Hurricane? I'm having trouble following everything.

 

[E.Hands]

Or whatever this thing happens to be:

Is that the Grizwald's new vacation mobile?

 

[silver billet]

Clearly you must be right. The issue is never with the one single person arguing with half a dozen others.


I never said you can't. That was your inference from an earlier post. Do you not remember what you yourself posted? This is a direct quote... "it's much more of a passenger car". Of course you can work a half ton. I never claimed otherwise.


Agreed, but probably not for the same reasons.


And this is proof that you're putting words into my mouth. I never once said the 5.7 Hemi isn't capable. Not sure why you're going off on this with me.


And you need to use your head and realize you made a foolish statement. You failed to include the fact that you were talking about gasoline turbo charged engines. See, only saying half of what you mean. We aren't mind readers.


No argument with you on that. Not sure why you bring it up though since no one said anything to the contrary.


So now a half ton is a hard working truck and not a passenger car. Okay, got it.

This is getting silly, lets back up the train, here is the argument in point form:

• the 5.7 hemi is a proven design, it saw heavy duty usage for many years in the 2500/3500s
• the hurricane is a small turbo charged, light duty engine more suited for passenger cars
• you don't find SMALL turbo GAS engines in a heavy duty truck because they can't take the abuse/duty cycle
• even Ford, who has many years of experience with ecoboost, took the time to design a heavy duty NA gas engine for their heavy duty work trucks. The ecoboost has the hp/torque to be in a heavy duty truck, but not the durability which is the key point here
• yes obviously I'm aware that modern diesel trucks use turbos.
• diesels in heavy duty trucks are an entirely different class of engine. They are built like tanks to withstand the enormous amounts of compression and heat that comes from burning diesel, and also the intended workloads. The weight of the engine is the first clue that its built like a tank.
• currently turbo diesel is the only option when you need to tow 20K+ loads. But there are many guys who refuse to buy diesels even in the heavy duty segment due to turbos and other diesel related issues and will buy a gasser as long as its physically capable of pulling the load, the turbo being another point of failure/headache. Many are hoping for even bigger gas engines (like the rumoured GM 8.3 that keeps popping up over the years), again, these guys will always prefer a simple NA v8 if it can do the job.
• if the option to tow 20,000+ pounds is: A) turbo diesel vs B) not towing, then you're going to choose the turbo diesel
• if the option to tow 10,000 pounds is A) tiny turbo gas vs large NA v8 then I'm going to pick the NA V8 every time.

In summary:
I only need a half ton when it comes to suspension and other aspects of my truck, but the drivetrain being able to withstand the pressure and demands of a heavy duty truck means it can definitely handle my towing needs without issue. It means I can tow all day every day and not worry about it. The hurricane has no such history, and in fact we see manufacturers refusing to use small turbo gas engines in heavy duty trucks. The reason they don't, is the same reason I won't buy one in a half ton: I want a simple, reliable NA engine that will live forever with basic maintenance, that can handle my towing needs with complete ease, and doesn't require a shop for many types of repairs.

Cab off repairs aren't mentioned much but guaranteed the hurricane is less friendly to backyard mechanics vs the hemi as well. I'm speculating on this last point, but I doubt I'm wrong.

@PetePA: see above.

 

[mikeru82]

Looks like a lot of opinion mixed with supposed facts, but I appreciate the effort. Buying decisions are often based on opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. The fact is, no one knows how durable the new engines will be because they haven't been in use long enough. Only time will tell. In the end I'd prefer a gas V8 as well, and in a few years when it's time to replace our current 2020 we'll take a look at what's available at that time. There will also be some data on the Hurricane durability, or lack of it, whichever the case may be.

 

[HSKR R/T]

This is getting silly, lets back up the train, here is the argument in point form:

• the 5.7 hemi is a proven design, it saw heavy duty usage for many years in the 2500/3500s
• the hurricane is a small turbo charged, light duty engine more suited for passenger cars
• you don't find SMALL turbo GAS engines in a heavy duty truck because they can't take the abuse/duty cycle
• even Ford, who has many years of experience with ecoboost, took the time to design a heavy duty NA gas engine for their heavy duty work trucks. The ecoboost has the hp/torque to be in a heavy duty truck, but not the durability which is the key point here
• yes obviously I'm aware that modern diesel trucks use turbos.
• diesels in heavy duty trucks are an entirely different class of engine. They are built like tanks to withstand the enormous amounts of compression and heat that comes from burning diesel, and also the intended workloads. The weight of the engine is the first clue that its built like a tank.
• currently turbo diesel is the only option when you need to tow 20K+ loads. But there are many guys who refuse to buy diesels even in the heavy duty segment due to turbos and other diesel related issues and will buy a gasser as long as its physically capable of pulling the load, the turbo being another point of failure/headache. Many are hoping for even bigger gas engines (like the rumoured GM 8.3 that keeps popping up over the years), again, these guys will always prefer a simple NA v8 if it can do the job.
• if the option to tow 20,000+ pounds is: A) turbo diesel vs B) not towing, then you're going to choose the turbo diesel
• if the option to tow 10,000 pounds is A) tiny turbo gas vs large NA v8 then I'm going to pick the NA V8 every time.

In summary:
I only need a half ton when it comes to suspension and other aspects of my truck, but the drivetrain being able to withstand the pressure and demands of a heavy duty truck means it can definitely handle my towing needs without issue. It means I can tow all day every day and not worry about it. The hurricane has no such history, and in fact we see manufacturers refusing to use small turbo gas engines in heavy duty trucks. The reason they don't, is the same reason I won't buy one in a half ton: I want a simple, reliable NA engine that will live forever with basic maintenance, that can handle my towing needs with complete ease, and doesn't require a shop for many types of repairs.

Cab off repairs aren't mentioned much but guaranteed the hurricane is less friendly to backyard mechanics vs the hemi as well. I'm speculating on this last point, but I doubt I'm wrong.

@PetePA: see above.

The Hurricane was designed for truck use, hance why it's first applications were in the Wagoneer and 1500. It's a long inline 6 cylinder. It won't fit under the hood of most passenger cards and Dodge had to build the Charger specifically to fit the Hurricane in it. They didn't build the Hurricane to fit the Charger.

 

[silver billet]

The Hurricane was designed for truck use, hance why it's first applications were in the Wagoneer and 1500. It's a long inline 6 cylinder. It won't fit under the hood of most passenger cards and Dodge had to build the Charger specifically to fit the Hurricane in it. They didn't build the Hurricane to fit the Charger.

We've gone through this. The 1500's are not "trucks", they are basically large cars and are designed for passenger car duty and light/infrequent recreational towing.

 

[Pikeman_66]

Is that the Grizwald's new vacation mobile?

that looks more like the GMC with its huggggge grill

 

[BowDown]

What?

I used to drag my 6k 24' enclosed trailer around with the 3.6L gas Jeep pickup. A Ram with a 6.4L Hemi would have made light work of it. I see guys all the time praising the new gas HD trucks and talking about how amazed they are at the pulling power.

The Ford 7.3 gas gets within 2 MPG of the diesel when towing 15k loads, and does so without DEF, 3 gallons of engine oil, fifteen coolers mounted all over the chassis, or $100 worth of fuel filters. It also runs on fuel that's less expensive and easier to find.

It's not 1994 anymore. These new high powered gas engines mated to 8 and 10 speed transmissions are no joke. I would go as far as to argue that they are a better option for 95% of HD truck owners. I'm currently driving a 6.7 Powerstroke, the most powerful engine you can possibly buy in any pickup truck and honestly if I buy another truck in a couple years it WILL be a gasoline truck.

A 5K trailer is an empty trailer, load up 10-15k Lbs with a gas 2500 and listen to it struggle to accelerate. We all see them everyday

 

[Biga]

We've gone through this. The 1500's are not "trucks", they are basically large cars and are designed for passenger car duty and light/infrequent recreational towing.

If they were not trucks they wouldn't have a full frame or solid rear axle. You can make the vehicles much lighter and drive a lot better if you don't have to worry about carrying a load. That said I agree most people are driving them as cars these days especially since most of them are four door short beds.

 

[BowDown]

This is getting silly, lets back up the train, here is the argument in point form:

• the 5.7 hemi is a proven design, it saw heavy duty usage for many years in the 2500/3500s
• the hurricane is a small turbo charged, light duty engine more suited for passenger cars
• you don't find SMALL turbo GAS engines in a heavy duty truck because they can't take the abuse/duty cycle
• even Ford, who has many years of experience with ecoboost, took the time to design a heavy duty NA gas engine for their heavy duty work trucks. The ecoboost has the hp/torque to be in a heavy duty truck, but not the durability which is the key point here
• yes obviously I'm aware that modern diesel trucks use turbos.
• diesels in heavy duty trucks are an entirely different class of engine. They are built like tanks to withstand the enormous amounts of compression and heat that comes from burning diesel, and also the intended workloads. The weight of the engine is the first clue that its built like a tank.
• currently turbo diesel is the only option when you need to tow 20K+ loads. But there are many guys who refuse to buy diesels even in the heavy duty segment due to turbos and other diesel related issues and will buy a gasser as long as its physically capable of pulling the load, the turbo being another point of failure/headache. Many are hoping for even bigger gas engines (like the rumoured GM 8.3 that keeps popping up over the years), again, these guys will always prefer a simple NA v8 if it can do the job.
• if the option to tow 20,000+ pounds is: A) turbo diesel vs B) not towing, then you're going to choose the turbo diesel
• if the option to tow 10,000 pounds is A) tiny turbo gas vs large NA v8 then I'm going to pick the NA V8 every time.

In summary:
I only need a half ton when it comes to suspension and other aspects of my truck, but the drivetrain being able to withstand the pressure and demands of a heavy duty truck means it can definitely handle my towing needs without issue. It means I can tow all day every day and not worry about it. The hurricane has no such history, and in fact we see manufacturers refusing to use small turbo gas engines in heavy duty trucks. The reason they don't, is the same reason I won't buy one in a half ton: I want a simple, reliable NA engine that will live forever with basic maintenance, that can handle my towing needs with complete ease, and doesn't require a shop for many types of repairs.

Cab off repairs aren't mentioned much but guaranteed the hurricane is less friendly to backyard mechanics vs the hemi as well. I'm speculating on this last point, but I doubt I'm wrong.

@PetePA: see above.

• the hurricane is a small turbo charged, light duty engine more suited for passenger cars

As stated previously, the engine was designed for truck use, hence the low peak torque RPM

• you don't find SMALL turbo GAS engines in a heavy duty truck because they can't take the abuse/duty cycle

You don't find gas turbo engines in HD trucks because peak torque is much higher than what may be useful in a loaded HD truck, the very same reasons loaded gasser hd trucks sound like they are wheezing when trying to accelerate.
No one is disputing the fact that a small displacement gas turbo engine isn't suitable for a 2500 however for a 1500 light duty truck, it is. Why is the pentastar in a 1500 or a turbo 4 in the Chevy silverado?
Is the Chevy Silverado Worth the Money If It Has a 4-Cylinder Engine?

No one is disputing the other HD/turbo diesel merits

 

[BowDown]

Engine options for 2025 are the pentastar 6 or one of the hurricane twins, period. Those are our only options aside from buying a GM or Ford

 

[silver billet]

If they were not trucks they wouldn't have a full frame or solid rear axle. You can make the vehicles much lighter and drive a lot better if you don't have to worry about carrying a load. That said I agree most people are driving them as cars these days especially since most of them are four door short beds.

Know what else had a full frame? My moms 1980 station wagon. My Jeep GC was far more capable on/off road without a solid frame, so maybe we need some additional criteria here to define "what is a truck" these days.

 

[silver billet]

As stated previously, the engine was designed for truck use, hence the low peak torque RPM


You don't find gas turbo engines in HD trucks because peak torque is much higher than what may be useful in a loaded HD truck,

That's backwards. Turbos put out gobs of torque down low, some put out 90+% peak before 2000 rpms. NA engines take a long time to rev and reach peak power numbers.

the very same reasons loaded gasser hd trucks sound like they are wheezing when trying to accelerate.
No one is disputing the fact that a small displacement gas turbo engine isn't suitable for a 2500 however for a 1500 light duty truck, it is. Why is the pentastar in a 1500 or a turbo 4 in the Chevy silverado?

These are not meant for towing.

Is the Chevy Silverado Worth the Money If It Has a 4-Cylinder Engine?

If all I needed was to make small deliveries, carry my kids and equipment back and forth to school or get back and forth to a job site, sure. This is basically passenger car duty.

 

[BowDown]

If they were not trucks they wouldn't have a full frame or solid rear axle. You can make the vehicles much lighter and drive a lot better if you don't have to worry about carrying a load. That said I agree most people are driving them as cars these days especially since most of them are four door short beds.

I'd say the same thing about 25/3500's too. I see as many unloaded, lifted, he-haw'd up 25/3500's as I do unloaded 1500's . There's a guy that just bought a new powerstroke Tremor around the corner from me. He has bought 2 F150's in 3 years with the last truck only lasting 3 months before he traded it on the F250.

There's probably 6 2500's in my neighborhood, Fords, Chevys and one Gen 4 Ram upfitted as a welding truck; my truck has been loaded down more often than I've seen the HD's. Don't even start about the mall or grocery stores

 

[silver billet]

A 5K trailer is an empty trailer, load up 10-15k Lbs with a gas 2500 and listen to it struggle to accelerate. We all see them everyday

NA need to rev to make power, doesn't mean its struggling anymore than a cummins which hits 2800 rpms with a redline of 3200 or whatever it is.

Perhaps towing a loaded trailer and timing it 0 to 60 is a better indication than "listen to it struggle". Nothing wrong the performance of gas engines pulling 10 to 15k. Far better than the diesels 20 years ago towing the same loads.

 

[Biga]

Know what else had a full frame? My moms 1980 station wagon. My Jeep GC was far more capable on/off road without a solid frame, so maybe we need some additional criteria here to define "what is a truck" these days.

SUV's are typically better off road then a full size big pickup truck. Light rear ends and longer wheel bases don't help offroad. The frame mainly comes into play for hauling and towing, your 1980's station wagon probably had a tow rating around 5,000 lbs.