Agree 100%. I guess we should just take our lumps and suffer in silence. The "fascination" with vent temperatures is about not arriving to lunch a sweaty mess.
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AC - does anyone have a truck that blows ice cold?
- Thread starter thenrich
- Start date
Agree 100%. I guess we should just take our lumps and suffer in silence. The "fascination" with vent temperatures is about not arriving to lunch a sweaty mess.
cra1g
Well-Known Member
I only posted my numbers to make a data point available. In my case, objectively, it's within spec, and subjectively, it's doing the job it needs to do. I'm not going to try any of the plumbing suggestions, because I don't have a problem to solve. If it was out of spec, I'd get it fixed under warranty even if I was happy with the performance, because being out of spec could indicate a small problem with the potential to turn into a big one. If it was in spec but I wasn't happy with it, then I'd recognize that what I want is outside what it was designed to do, and go nuts with plumbing parts.
riccnick
Ram Guru
OK, well if you, or anyone else, wants to take it personally, I guess that's fine, but I never singled anyone out, and didn't intent to either. When I quote someone, it's for discussion, not for blame... My point was (and still is), that the root cause of the problem has neither been discovered, nor solved. Sorry using some logic makes me come off as egotistical, not sure how to solve that one for ya. I guess I shouldn't have pointed it out? Anyway, once again, didn't mean to offend anyone.
If you (collective "you", not YOU "you") read through this and the other five threads about the air conditioning performance, SOME people have posted multiple times about gathering data to "PROVE" to FCA that there is a problem and "FORCE" them to fix it because they (collectively) believe they have solved the problem. They, in fact, have not.
I'm all for collecting data, and trying to find the problem, and if I get the chance today I actually plan on taking some of the dash apart to see if I can get my eyes on the bend door, or at least the actuator. I also want to run the vent temps test as well, to see where I fall, as I am suspicious that my truck does not have enough R1234yf refrigerant, which has also been mentioned by others in some of the A/C threads. I just recently moved to SWFL and it's 90-ish ("feels like" temp) almost every day here, and I'm curious if I'm gonna get lower than the 55 degrees that's specified in the chart.
For the record, when I come across a thread about lifting, or exhausts, or payload, etc, and the desired results of the mod are out of line with the realistic outcomes or intentions of the product or system, I absolutely get my egotistical *** in there and say something. There are too many people expecting 50 hp out of their muffler swap or "cold" air intake, "better" off-roading with their 8 inch bracket lift, and "more" payload with their aftermarket airbags. People can do what they want, but when they run around the forum peacock-ing like they did a good job and suggest everyone should do the same detrimental thing they did, I'm gonna say something. Wouldn't you?
Jhill
Ram Guru
Thanks again for vent temps. This gives us some numbers for what a properly operating truck should deliver.
KcRay
Well-Known Member
If I were to use your logic, I'd be driving around with a hole in my windshield and flattened tires. Okay, we are all on the same team here. We all have different levels of enthusiasm, or passion. You being willing to dig into your dash, definitely shows your level is higher than most.
Let us know what you find in there.
Before you even attempt to get at the “blend” door please check out YouTube. There is at least one video on a repair of a late model Ram Climate control box. I suspect the 2019 Ram box is similar and there is no way to do what you want without major effort. That being said, if you do it, good luck with it.
riccnick
Ram Guru
I'm just hoping I can see it, or a lever, or actuator, and check it's travel. We'll see how far I get, I'm thinking I'll pull the glove box first and work my way as far in as I can without messing anything up. Maybe I can see it if I pull the trim around the center vents and screen.
riccnick
Ram Guru
We absolutely are on the same team. I want ALL of the performance my truck is supposed to come with, whether it's A/C performance, HP, gas mileage, towing capacity, etc, etc. My analogies about the windshield and tires were to point out the flawed logic behind the consensus (five threads worth, posted multiple times that this was THE solution) that the A/C problem has been solved, they were not actual suggestions on how to operate the truck, lol.
Willwork4truck
Spends too much time on here
You guys did a good job of keeping this civil. My old F150 forum would have had a small nuc blast by now...
It’s probably more than similar. I’d wager they didn’t change it at all, at least not in a way you’d notice. So a little YouTube research probably goes a long way here.
riccnick
Ram Guru
There's no hate here, not on my side at least, and I didn't think there was from anyone else either. Tone of voice is hard to get across via the internet, so I'm sure my direct type of statements may come across more aggressive than they are meant, but if you read the words themselves, I don't tent to attack anyone, and it seems like everyone here is the same way. A little explaining is all it takes to get everyone to understand, generally. I've seen some forums where that's not the case, and, there's no point in even trying to explain yourself to those type of people, because they aren't there to learn or listen, they are there for one thing, and that is to be "RIGHT" at ANY cost. Like I said, fortunately, around here, not the same.
Also, (probably underwhelming) pics coming in a min of the blend door actuator and lever. Easy to see, hard to get to. Also changed my cabin filter and bough some meat thermometers for the vents to run the test in a few min.
Jhill
Ram Guru
All I ever meant to offer was a helpful "work around" band aid to get anyone with real concerns in very hot and humid parts of the country some relief until a "proper" FCA sanctioned resolution has been determined. When Cra1g offered some actual ambient / all 4 dash vents measured numbers was some great data to at least give us a comparison to our own rig. His rig "appears" to be working satisfactory. All KcRay and I as well as others just shared ways to buy time and get instant relief. That is why we stress "don't cut factory hoses" so no trace would be left if someone tries one of the "bandaid" workarounds.
Billy James
Ram Guru
True. I have done one before; lots of disassembly and some cutting required. I won't be doing that on a brand new truck.
riccnick
Ram Guru
SO
I have a 2019 Laramie Crew with the 5.7 and eTorque, the 12.1 screen, pano roof, currently at 15,500 miles. Build date is August 05, 2018.
Here's where the blend door actuator is, at least, one of them. It's very hard to see it move, it moves smoothly and has very little stroke near the actuator, which is the part that's visible. To access it, all you need to do is pull the three black button-head push pins that hold the lower foot well dash trim up underneath the glove box door hinge. I had already removed the glove box door and damper, which is not necessary at all. However, with it removed, you can see the fresh air box above the cabin air filter, and the mixing box to the left of it, behind the more solid piece of plastic wall. I tried removing this plastic, but couldn't get the top of it to pop out, so I tucked my tail and put it back before I broke it.
Below, you can see the white pivoting arm through the cutout in the lower dash panel behind the trim that was removed. The black clip in the picture points directly at it. (Sorry the arm is blurry, leaning into the truck, not sweating on anything, and holding the phone at the right angle was tough, lol) Trying to watch this move while also adjusting the temp on the HVAC display is very difficult, I was able to do it and just barely see it move back and forth. I'd recommend a buddy to adjust the temp while you watch it move. I was able to get my hand in there and check for any slack or free play in the actuator or linkage. It felt very direct and solid, I tried pushing the blend door lever itself and also felt no movement. So, I'm assuming, at least for my truck, the blend door is moving properly and not getting hung up and does not have any slack. Only being this far into the dash, I obviously have no idea if it's sealing properly or not, but my assumption is that everything is ok.
While I was in there, seeing how I removed the glove box, I replaced my dirty cabin air filter with a new one. The one pictured is the original with 15,500 miles on it and a mix of New England fall and winter, and a Florida spring.
I have a 2019 Laramie Crew with the 5.7 and eTorque, the 12.1 screen, pano roof, currently at 15,500 miles. Build date is August 05, 2018.
Here's where the blend door actuator is, at least, one of them. It's very hard to see it move, it moves smoothly and has very little stroke near the actuator, which is the part that's visible. To access it, all you need to do is pull the three black button-head push pins that hold the lower foot well dash trim up underneath the glove box door hinge. I had already removed the glove box door and damper, which is not necessary at all. However, with it removed, you can see the fresh air box above the cabin air filter, and the mixing box to the left of it, behind the more solid piece of plastic wall. I tried removing this plastic, but couldn't get the top of it to pop out, so I tucked my tail and put it back before I broke it.
Below, you can see the white pivoting arm through the cutout in the lower dash panel behind the trim that was removed. The black clip in the picture points directly at it. (Sorry the arm is blurry, leaning into the truck, not sweating on anything, and holding the phone at the right angle was tough, lol) Trying to watch this move while also adjusting the temp on the HVAC display is very difficult, I was able to do it and just barely see it move back and forth. I'd recommend a buddy to adjust the temp while you watch it move. I was able to get my hand in there and check for any slack or free play in the actuator or linkage. It felt very direct and solid, I tried pushing the blend door lever itself and also felt no movement. So, I'm assuming, at least for my truck, the blend door is moving properly and not getting hung up and does not have any slack. Only being this far into the dash, I obviously have no idea if it's sealing properly or not, but my assumption is that everything is ok.
While I was in there, seeing how I removed the glove box, I replaced my dirty cabin air filter with a new one. The one pictured is the original with 15,500 miles on it and a mix of New England fall and winter, and a Florida spring.
riccnick
Ram Guru
Now for the test. I followed the "24 - Heating and Air Conditioning/Diagnosis and Testing" section of the service manual that was posted here as closely as I could. I checked my ambient "feels like" temperature, the truck's coolant temp, and used meat thermometers that I just bought down here at the Walmarts. One thing I noticed the instructions say, that I didn't see echoed here on the forum, is that the engine is supposed to be revving at 1,000 RPMs. I kept that the best I could, within a hundred or two the entire time. The only thing I couldn't do that the instructions say is to check the evaporator temperature, as it needs to be over 55 degrees before beginning the test. I had just driven my truck, so I let it sit in the sun with the windows up for a half hour, until the inside temp read 100 degrees on the thermometers, so I'm sure it was within spec. Here's the ambient temp data when I let the truck sit at 4:24pm, a little over a half hour before I started. The "feels like" temp was 101 degrees, Sirius XM said 88, and the truck thought it was 98. I checked again at 5:07 when running the test, and the numbers were identical from the weather app on my phone (The Weather Channel). I will also note, I have the Panoramic sunroof, and I left the sunshade open all the way, with the sunroof itself completely closed.
These are the instructions. The summary at the beginning is very interesting and definitely does a good job of setting expectations for the performance of the system, and also explains the role that humidity plays in the performance of the system, even noting that "an owner may expect too much from their A/C system on humid days". One thing I noticed that wasn't specified in the evaluation: time. There's no mention of how quickly the system is expected to reach temperature, which I think is left out due to the inability to accurately measure humidity and ambient air temperature in an area so localized (where the truck actually is).
Initially, I started the truck, and put the hvac unit on MAX A/C, per the directions in the service manual text. Very quickly, the vent temps, which started at 100 degrees, moved down to below 90 within seconds, then 80 after a minute, and kept falling. After six minutes sitting in the vents all read right around 60 degrees. I only had three thermometers, so I placed them in the drivers left and center vents, and the passenger center vent.
After 15 minutes, all three vents were well below 60 degrees, with the passenger center being a little lower, almost at 50.
This theme continued for another ten minutes, when I decided that's as cold as it's gonna get. I was curios if the thermometers were reading the same, so I swapped them in the vents and also tested two in the same vent. They were withing a degree of each other.
I was also curious if the screen being on would affect the drivers side vents any, so I turned it off completely (I was listening to music and had the home screen set to XM Weather and the Climate Control screen). The temps did drop a bit, but they also didn't rise up again after turning the screen back on, so I assume they just hadn't reached rock bottom yet. After a half hour of sitting in the truck, I figured I was well within spec, even though the air from the vents never "felt" ice cold when I put my hand in front of it, the truck was cool and comfortable, and the numbers were making sense.
So, at least for my truck, following the procedure as closely as possible, with a warm engine, revving at 1,000 RPM, A/C on Max A/C setting, windows up, sunroof closed, starting with 100 degree cabin temperature, and using three thermometers that all read within a degree of each other, I am confident that the A/C in my truck is working as designed. Did it freeze me out of the truck on a 98 degree day with 60% humidity? No. But it's also not supposed to, as it's operating near the extremes of it's design intent.
These are the instructions. The summary at the beginning is very interesting and definitely does a good job of setting expectations for the performance of the system, and also explains the role that humidity plays in the performance of the system, even noting that "an owner may expect too much from their A/C system on humid days". One thing I noticed that wasn't specified in the evaluation: time. There's no mention of how quickly the system is expected to reach temperature, which I think is left out due to the inability to accurately measure humidity and ambient air temperature in an area so localized (where the truck actually is).
Initially, I started the truck, and put the hvac unit on MAX A/C, per the directions in the service manual text. Very quickly, the vent temps, which started at 100 degrees, moved down to below 90 within seconds, then 80 after a minute, and kept falling. After six minutes sitting in the vents all read right around 60 degrees. I only had three thermometers, so I placed them in the drivers left and center vents, and the passenger center vent.
After 15 minutes, all three vents were well below 60 degrees, with the passenger center being a little lower, almost at 50.
This theme continued for another ten minutes, when I decided that's as cold as it's gonna get. I was curios if the thermometers were reading the same, so I swapped them in the vents and also tested two in the same vent. They were withing a degree of each other.
I was also curious if the screen being on would affect the drivers side vents any, so I turned it off completely (I was listening to music and had the home screen set to XM Weather and the Climate Control screen). The temps did drop a bit, but they also didn't rise up again after turning the screen back on, so I assume they just hadn't reached rock bottom yet. After a half hour of sitting in the truck, I figured I was well within spec, even though the air from the vents never "felt" ice cold when I put my hand in front of it, the truck was cool and comfortable, and the numbers were making sense.
So, at least for my truck, following the procedure as closely as possible, with a warm engine, revving at 1,000 RPM, A/C on Max A/C setting, windows up, sunroof closed, starting with 100 degree cabin temperature, and using three thermometers that all read within a degree of each other, I am confident that the A/C in my truck is working as designed. Did it freeze me out of the truck on a 98 degree day with 60% humidity? No. But it's also not supposed to, as it's operating near the extremes of it's design intent.
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Billy James
Ram Guru
It looks like the design hasn't changed much since 2003.
riccnick
Ram Guru
Probably not, even though each system is specifically designed for each truck, the theory is the same and has been for a long time.
First, thank you for doing this. You put in a ton of effort for the good of the community, especially considering you didn't even have much of a complaint in the first place.
Unfortunately, I think we see that this is the intended design, and that is what is so frustrating. My truck does ok at 90 degrees and 60% humidity, too. It's cool enough that I can turn it down before I get home on my 30 minute commute. It has been pretty mild here the last week or so, so it has been adequate. The problem is the hot and humid days. When it's 93/94+ degree days with 70+% humidity, there is no way it will be able to keep up. I think a lot of it is situational, too, though. I park in a huge asphalt parking lot with no shade. I'm hoping that adding tint and/or a sunshade will at least make it bearable on those days.
Is there another blend door on the driver side that could be causing the difference in temps?
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riccnick
Ram Guru
I have tinted front side windows to match the rear, but that's it, and it doesn't make a noticeable difference in cabin temps at all, just looks cool. I didn't see the other blend door in my adventures, I'm sure its in there somewhere, I imagine it's on the other side of the box that's behind the glove box, not on the other side of the dash near the driver.
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Billy James
Ram Guru
Florida heat and humidity every day here; the tint and sunshade are a difference maker.
