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Tow/haul mode always when towing?

Mr.Grid

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That's incorrect. The lower the RPMs while towing, the more it lugs, the more it builds heat. That is a fact.
If the transmission programming allows for the shift to whatever gear given the load and maintain it, there is NO lugging of the engine. If it won’t maintain, it’ll drop to the next lower gear and remain there because the transmission is programmed that way. Whether my engine is at 2600+ in 6th or 2200 in 7th pulling 7k# flat towing, the engine temp is exactly the same. I know this because I’ve towed 1000’s of miles this way and monitor my gauges. What you don’t want, is to have the transmission hunting the higher gear, constantly shifting back and forth. This will increase trans temps which should be avoided. I set trans to 7th gear with 3.92s. It’ll tow in that gear and maintain.

This person posts this “Trailwalker16 said:
I Tow a 30 ft 6,000# Travel trailer I put the tow / haul mode on . The downside is the mpgs . I get about 8.5 which sucks. I’m thinking of turning off the tow mode to see if I can get a mix of at least 10 between the 2 modes”

Then authorities like YOU come out and post “You’LL BURN IT UP if you don’t use TH”…. LMFAO … NEVER tried it but know EVERYTHING about it.

I towed 3x in 2022 across (4.5% grade) and back (5.5%) WV , VA not using TH through the Appellations. In Nov 2021 I crossed going South using TH as this truck had under 1500 miles and was first time towing for me. When I returned North I didn’t use TH. I post as someone that has Actually done it using both methods.

I don’t care if you use TH or not, same as I don’t care that you use 10w40 in your Hemi because you think the factory recommends the wrong fluid weight. But my advice to the OP of this question is based on Actual use (1000’s of miles) of towing without using TH. Trying towing without using TH won’t hurt anything !!!!
 

SnowBlaZR2

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If the transmission programming allows for the shift to whatever gear given the load and maintain it, there is NO lugging of the engine. If it won’t maintain, it’ll drop to the next lower gear and remain there because the transmission is programmed that way. Whether my engine is at 2600+ in 6th or 2200 in 7th pulling 7k# flat towing, the engine temp is exactly the same. I know this because I’ve towed 1000’s of miles this way and monitor my gauges. What you don’t want, is to have the transmission hunting the higher gear, constantly shifting back and forth. This will increase trans temps which should be avoided. I set trans to 7th gear with 3.92s. It’ll tow in that gear and maintain.

This person posts this “Trailwalker16 said:
I Tow a 30 ft 6,000# Travel trailer I put the tow / haul mode on . The downside is the mpgs . I get about 8.5 which sucks. I’m thinking of turning off the tow mode to see if I can get a mix of at least 10 between the 2 modes”

Then authorities like YOU come out and post “You’LL BURN IT UP if you don’t use TH”…. LMFAO … NEVER tried it but know EVERYTHING about it.

I towed 3x in 2022 across (4.5% grade) and back (5.5%) WV , VA not using TH through the Appellations. In Nov 2021 I crossed going South using TH as this truck had under 1500 miles and was first time towing for me. When I returned North I didn’t use TH. I post as someone that has Actually done it using both methods.

I don’t care if you use TH or not, same as I don’t care that you use 10w40 in your Hemi because you think the factory recommends the wrong fluid weight. But my advice to the OP of this question is based on Actual use (1000’s of miles) of towing without using TH. Trying towing without using TH won’t hurt anything !!!!
I've towed about 14k miles across all the terrain this country has to offer.

Use tow/haul mode. It's there for a reason.
 

silver billet

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If the transmission programming allows for the shift to whatever gear given the load and maintain it, there is NO lugging of the engine. If it won’t maintain, it’ll drop to the next lower gear and remain there because the transmission is programmed that way.
T/H strenghtens that even more. Meaning, without T/H your truck will be more eager to up and downshift. With T/H engaged, it will hold gears far more than without it.

Whether my engine is at 2600+ in 6th or 2200 in 7th pulling 7k# flat towing, the engine temp is exactly the same. I know this because I’ve towed 1000’s of miles this way and monitor my gauges. What you don’t want, is to have the transmission hunting the higher gear, constantly shifting back and forth.

Exactly. So use T/H to prevent hunting. That's literally what its designed to do (among other things).

Somehow you've managed to get the right idea (hunting is bad) and then contradict yourself in the solution (T/H prevents hunting, without it your tranmission will be more busy).

Then authorities like YOU come out and post “You’LL BURN IT UP if you don’t use TH”…. LMFAO … NEVER tried it but know EVERYTHING about it.

Don't make this personal.
 

Bt10

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A couple months ago in the last thread started about this subject, I mentioned that Tow/Haul also ups the line pressure. Now, kudos to you guys who, for some unknowable reason don't want to use the truck correctly as intended by the engineers at the manufacturer, had at least thought to watch the trans temp, and it's great that our new trucks have an excellent cooling system, but what you are not seeing is all the extra slipping of the clutches as it upshifts. That smooth shifting has you fooled into thinking you are being easy on the truck; that smooth shifting comes as a skew of the compromise of softer clutch engagement. I guess I have no reason to wear out the clutches prematurely on my expensive truck, even if the great cooling package keeps the fluid cool and unburned.

😉
 
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HEMIJAKE

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A couple months ago in the last thread started about this subject, I mentioned that Tow/Haul also ups the line pressure. Now, kudos to you guys who, for some unknowable reason don't want to use the truck correctly as intended by the engineers at the manufacturer, had at least thought to watch the trans temp, and it's great that our new trucks have an excellent cooling system, but what you are not seeing is all the extra slipping of the clutches as it upshifts. That smooth shifting has you fooled into thinking you are being easy on the truck; that smooth shifting comes as a skew of the compromise of softer clutch engagement. I guess I have no reason to wear out the clutches prematurely on my expensive truck, even if the great cooling package keeps the fluid cool and unburned.

😉
This is just one reason why I buy new vehicles ha.
 

Slipangle

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So I had a ’20 with EcoDiesel and 3.92 axle ratio. On paper this truck should have been a beast.

Today I have a ’22 with Hemi and 3.21 axle ratio.

What I tow is a 8.5x20 enclosed trailer. Been towing this size trailer with both trucks over the last few years. The trailer while loaded goes somewhere in the ballpark of 6,000 lbs. The frontal area is 56 sq/ft which is within spec for a ½ ton truck.

The roads I travel are a mix of two-lane 55 MPH roads, four-lane 55 MPH roads, and 4-lane 70 MPH roads. There is only a small amount of city driving at the beginning and end of our trips.

What I have seen in the real world is that the 3.92 diesel truck would use 4th gear on the worst hills climbing grade, 5th through 7th most of the time, and 8th in perfect conditions or going downhill. The 3.21 gas truck uses 3rd gear on the worst hills, 4th through 6th most all of the time, and I’ve never seen it higher than 7th. In practice the trucks function exactly the same in terms of towing “feel” and performance in terms of transmission shifting. If I couldn’t see the gear indicator on the dash I’d never know there was a difference. My 3.21 gear Hemi truck has 35” tires on it and will still pull strong at low speeds or higher speeds. It’s quite impressive. (The 3.92 diesel truck had very similar size tires on it.) After driving both trucks extensively, the conclusion I have come to is that the biggest difference between the trucks isn’t the axle ratio, it’s the engine. GDE has told us through dyno testing that the EcoD makes 442 peak lb/ft of torque. It can only get that 480 number in 6th gear under only specific conditions. For all intents and purposes it’s a 442 lb/ft engine, which is ironically where the engine is rated in the Jeep pickup. Soooo… you’re really only looking at 30 lb/ft of difference between Hemi and EcoD…..BUT the Hemi absolutely trounces the EcoD in horsepower and to me that fact is very noticeable out on the road.

If I had my choice, I would go 3.92 gears every single time. 3.92s behind a Hemi engine would be awesome.
WXman, just out of curiosity what sort of mileage comparison do you see between the EcoDiesel and the Hemi? Is the Hemi and eTorque? I currently have a 19 Hemi, no eTorque, w' 3.21 and tow a 24 ft travel trailer and see 8 mpg while towing avg. As bad as 6-7 mpg if headwinds and as good as 9 if tailwind. Keeping speed between 60-65.
 

silver billet

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WXman, just out of curiosity what sort of mileage comparison do you see between the EcoDiesel and the Hemi? Is the Hemi and eTorque? I currently have a 19 Hemi, no eTorque, w' 3.21 and tow a 24 ft travel trailer and see 8 mpg while towing avg. As bad as 6-7 mpg if headwinds and as good as 9 if tailwind. Keeping speed between 60-65.

I'm getting anywhere between 8 to 11 depending on head/tail wind. Same speed, I do run 91 octane though which may help.
 

WXman

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WXman, just out of curiosity what sort of mileage comparison do you see between the EcoDiesel and the Hemi? Is the Hemi and eTorque? I currently have a 19 Hemi, no eTorque, w' 3.21 and tow a 24 ft travel trailer and see 8 mpg while towing avg. As bad as 6-7 mpg if headwinds and as good as 9 if tailwind. Keeping speed between 60-65.

Very good question.

I hand calculate all my mileage and log it into Fuelly for tracking.

With the EcoDiesel, over the first 10,000 miles I saw 20 MPG city/highway combined and 14 towing a small trailer and 8-10 towing the big enclosed trailer.

With the Hemi, through the first 10,000 miles I'm at 15 to 17 MPG city/highway combined depending on which tires I'm running, 12ish towing a small trailer and 7-9 towing the big enclosed trailer.

So on average I'm down 1 MPG when working the truck hard vs. the diesel, and maybe 4 MPG difference when unloaded.

I have a spreadsheet that calculates cost to drive each truck and it accounts for fuel prices, DEF prices, maintenance costs, etc. etc. The Hemi is saving me money every month.

My Hemi is not eTorque. I purposefully avoided that headache.
 

Slipangle

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Very good question.

I hand calculate all my mileage and log it into Fuelly for tracking.

With the EcoDiesel, over the first 10,000 miles I saw 20 MPG city/highway combined and 14 towing a small trailer and 8-10 towing the big enclosed trailer.

With the Hemi, through the first 10,000 miles I'm at 15 to 17 MPG city/highway combined depending on which tires I'm running, 12ish towing a small trailer and 7-9 towing the big enclosed trailer.

So on average I'm down 1 MPG when working the truck hard vs. the diesel, and maybe 4 MPG difference when unloaded.

I have a spreadsheet that calculates cost to drive each truck and it accounts for fuel prices, DEF prices, maintenance costs, etc. etc. The Hemi is saving me money every month.

My Hemi is not eTorque. I purposefully avoided that headache.
Excellent, thanks. Been thinking about switching to the diesel but the math didn't seem to work out. You just verified that.
 

WXman

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And I will also mention that I'm running a true 35" tire on my Hemi also, which puts the truck at a big disadvantage with the 3.21 gearing. If I still had the tiny little 32" stock tires, or even a 33" stock tire like came on the 4th Gen trucks, I'm betting I could add 2-3 MPG to those towing numbers.
 

zanzibar555

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Richard320

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I have a 2019 Ram 1500 Sport 5.7 Hemi and hope to tow an Imagine 23MLE with it. I wonder how you get to show your Gauge Summary of temps. on your dash. I have tried and cannot get it to show them all.
Use the up/down control on the steering wheel to get to the temps/tire pressure/oil life section then use the right/left button to get to the 4 parameter display.
 

Ramit392

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You can't go wrong turning it on and will not save you much difference in MPG hauling any sized trailers. And if you have the Hybrid it also helps with braking and push back just like tow/Haul and the 392 gear does. Put her in Tow and go!!! LOL
 

SnowBlaZR2

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Towed with the new truck today.

Tow/haul on. Of course, it only has 3.55 gears. :LOL:
 

kzielu

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First tow - over 900 miles to St Louis and back, compared to Ford's 3.5 Ecoboost with 3.73 gearing and A10 - Ecoboost had quite a bit more torque and pulls harder off the line but it's not a huge difference, otherwise it was pretty effortless and drama free affair. Trailer weighs 2klb, car is ~3700 lb and it obviously doesn't have the frontal area of the camper.
3.21 rear end, 13.8 mpg average over the entire distance with speed at 70 mph (speed limit) or slightly (but not much above).
I've had low expectations but this worked out nicely.
 

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JayzRam

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No. It's running one gear number, but the gear ratio is almost identical.

And on the highway, the spread between gear ratios is minimal. First and second is a large jump between ratios, second and third still significant, but beyond that they're all small jumps. Each successive gear change has less and less drop in RPMs, meaning, the RPM spread decreases between the upper gears, not increases like you stated.

BTW your calculations are incorrect. 5th gens use the 8hp75 which has the following gear ratios. Note the color coded cells, see for example the two blue numbers, how close the 3.21 in 6th is to the 3.92 in 7th, that's literally "the same gear ratio" though obviously different gear numbers. This means that when you're pulling a load in 7th, my RPMs and engine power will match exactly to yours, only I'm in 6th. Similar things going on with the other color codes.

View attachment 157385

You're welcome to lug your engine, the facts remain that N/A engines build power more efficiently at higher RPMs. Lugging an engine builds heat. Those are the facts.
Numbers Don't lie. The little extra jump off the line and in 4lo is nice but if they both cruise at the same rpm at 65 mph then its a draw.
 

morrpar

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I recently did some experimentation on a 700-mile trip through Indiana and Illinois. Pretty flat with only small grades. I used T/H for a tank and didn't use it for one tank.
In T/H my truck almost never catches 8 th gear, stayed in 7th. Seemed to down shift on the slightest hill. In normal mode, gears changes were actually fewer.
Trans temp stayed the same. Sucked gas both ways. I am sure that in different situations, I will still use T/H to better control the truck, but I have learned that it is not requisite.

It may be that with 3.21 gears, it is advisable to use T/H always. I think a truck properly set up for towing (3.92) may not need T/H in as many situations.

What do you think?
 

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