Thoughts on Cold Air Intakes?

[HSKR R/T]

After doing two different intakes and exhaust on my truck, I should've just done a drop in filter and called it done, because my MPG's have dropped significantly.

I'm sure the MPG drop has nothing to do with the lift, tires, and wheels.

 

[LITTLEREBEL]

I'm sure the MPG drop has nothing to do with the lift, tires, and wheels.

Trust me I see your point, but I did the lift and wheels before the CAI's and was getting mid 15's and 16 mpg's. Now I have stock wheels on getting 13 mpg's. Next, I will do long tube headers and a tune to see if that brings the mpg's back up. Today I started driving my 40 mpg honda civic to work.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Trust me I see your point, but I did the lift and wheels before the CAI's and was getting mid 15's and 16 mpg's. Now I have stock wheels on getting 13 mpg's. Next, I will do long tube headers and a tune to see if that brings the mpg's back up. Today I started driving my 40 mpg honda civic to work.

I was getting 15-16 combined mileage with my truck until I put the 35" tires on. And that was with the level/lift and 275/65/20(34") tires. Now with the 35's and the aftermarket front bumper, I do good to get 14mpg combined. I can eek out 16 on the highway if I keep it below 75.

 

[Rick3478]

Trust me I see your point, but I did the lift and wheels before the CAI's and was getting mid 15's and 16 mpg's. Now I have stock wheels on getting 13 mpg's. Next, I will do long tube headers and a tune to see if that brings the mpg's back up. Today I started driving my 40 mpg honda civic to work.

An alternate view: the theory of the cold air intake is to feed the engine denser, cool air combined with more fuel to make more power. Basically burn fuel at a higher rate. This is not expected to improve efficiency, in fact is likely to reduce it.

If you want good mileage, you could go the other way. Like maybe pre-heat the incoming air by passing it through the radiator or even through a jacket around an exhaust manifold. Our plastic intake manifolds may not be happy about that. Just sayin'...

Something similar may happen with your long tube headers. Increased scavenging can suck more air and fuel through the engine. Generally speaking, things designed to increase performance under high speed, high throttle conditions will have an adverse effect on cruising and putting around town efficiency. TANFL

And you're on target using a compact rice burner for jobs that don't require truck capabilities. I have a Mazda that approaches 40 mpg for just such things.

 

[HSKR R/T]

An alternate view: the theory of the cold air intake is to feed the engine denser, cool air combined with more fuel to make more power. Basically burn fuel at a higher rate. This is not expected to improve efficiency, in fact is likely to reduce it.

If you want good mileage, you could go the other way. Like maybe pre-heat the incoming air by passing it through the radiator or even through a jacket around an exhaust manifold. Our plastic intake manifolds may not be happy about that. Just sayin'...

Something similar may happen with your long tube headers. Increased scavenging can suck more air and fuel through the engine. Generally speaking, things designed to increase performance under high speed, high throttle conditions will have an adverse effect on cruising and putting around town efficiency. TANFL

And you're on target using a compact rice burner for jobs that don't require truck capabilities. I have a Mazda that approaches 40 mpg for just such things.

That's not exactly true. Making more power with the A/F charge of higher density air will require less fuel when cruising. As the engine is more efficient, and doesn't have to work as hard to move the same weight. Same thing with the scavenging of the exhaust. Your engine is an air pump. Anything you do to reduce the restrictions of getting air in and out will improve efficiency. My 2000 Dakota R/T with Edelbrock heads, M1 4-bbl intake manifold, higher flow fuel injectors, mid length headers, 2.5" true dual exhaust, and nported throttle body got far better fuel mileage cruising at 70mph then the truck ever did with stock configuration.

 

[DEG]

No, I addressed the point you made about the Vararam drawing in hotter air. You are just deflecting now. Nobody is saying it will be colder air than the factory set up. It's well proven that they offer no added performance. But you literally said the Vararam would bring in hotter size which just isn't the case

You didn't make a point you expressed an opinion that that I disagree with. As I said before the, difference may be so insignificant as to not make a difference but a CAI drawing air from the top of the engine above the radiator will draw warmer air than one drawing air from the lower side of the radiator. The faster air moves across a radiant heat source the less heat it retains, but it doesn't stop retaining heat. If it did, your radiator would no longer provide cooling when you started traveling down the highway.

Also, nearly every manufacture claims their CAI's provide colder air. Your argument that no one here has repeated that claim is completely irrelevant to that fact.

The entire point of my post was to hopefully convince at least one person to reconsider spending hundreds of dollars on a component that accomplishes nothing. You can't even see it until you open your hood and nobody will be impressed. It seems you agree with my point, but like Darksteel165, you are so intent on arguing that you cherry-pick and miss the point entirely.

 

[CalvinC]

The difference may be so tiny as to be insignificant but these companies are trying to market their "cold air intakes" as being better than what you already have. The air won't be any cooler than the factory intake and could potentially be warmer.

This.

I've found the humor in industry calling them Cold Air Intakes with a straight face for over a decade. They should be known as Induction Noise Makers.

Unless you are on a circuit track at a high speed and top of the tach for extended lengths of time, AND are running a very modified/forced induction engine, there just isn't any truth to this.
They do more harm than good. The best ones are on par with stock.

 

[HSKR R/T]

You didn't make a point you expressed an opinion that that I disagree with. As I said before the, difference may be so insignificant as to not make a difference but a CAI drawing air from the top of the engine above the radiator will draw warmer air than one drawing air from the lower side of the radiator. The faster air moves across a radiant heat source the less heat it retains, but it doesn't stop retaining heat. If it did, your radiator would no longer provide cooling when you started traveling down the highway.

Also, nearly every manufacture claims their CAI's provide colder air. Your argument that no one here has repeated that claim is completely irrelevant to that fact.

The entire point of my post was to hopefully convince at least one person to reconsider spending hundreds of dollars on a component that accomplishes nothing. You can't even see it until you open your hood and nobody will be impressed. It seems you agree with my point, but like Darksteel165, you are so intent on arguing that you cherry-pick and miss the point entirely.

I'm not "cherry picking". You stated an opinion that I disagreed with, so wanted to make sure others reading didn't actually think the Vararam and RamAir actually draw in warmer air. They don't. The air coming into them is from right behind the grill, in front of the radiator, before any radiant heat would effect it. They would be no more effected by radiator or engine heat than the factory air box and tubing.

And I bought my Vararam specifically for the looks, as I participate in car shows. And it absolutely impresses people. Probably one of the most asked about modifications I have made, at car shows. Especially from the old school Mopar crowd, and other Ram owners.

As for the manufacturers making claims, I already addressed that. If anyone wanders onto any forum or even Facebook group inquiring about them, before buying, they will be told by pretty much everyone that they offer no benefit, other than increase engine noise. That won't keep people from buying them. Just like the TB spacers I mentioned previously.

 

[DEG]

This.

I've found the humor in industry calling them Cold Air Intakes with a straight face for over a decade. They should be known as Induction Noise Makers.

Agreed, but marketing works to motivate many people's buying decision. The word "Hemi" alone has sold many vehicles.

 

[DEG]

I'm not "cherry picking". You stated an opinion that I disagreed with, so wanted to make sure others reading didn't actually think the Vararam and RamAir actually draw in warmer air. They don't. The air coming into them is from right behind the grill, in front of the radiator, before any radiant heat would effect it. They would be no more effected by radiator or engine heat than the factory air box and tubing.

I disagree and understand your desire to believe the airflow through something you spend your money on is just as cold as the factory setup you replaced. As I've said several times now the difference may be so small as to be insignificant, but duct work sitting on top of the radiator will collect more radiant heat than ductwork below or along the side of the radiator. As a result the air traveling through the warmer duct work will extract and retain more heat than the air traveling through the slightly cooler duct work. The speed of the air will just reduce the heat transfer; not eliminate it.

 

[Rick3478]

That's not exactly true. Making more power with the A/F charge of higher density air will require less fuel when cruising. As the engine is more efficient, and doesn't have to work as hard to move the same weight. Same thing with the scavenging of the exhaust. Your engine is an air pump. Anything you do to reduce the restrictions of getting air in and out will improve efficiency.

That applies well at wide open throttle, but street engines operate in starved mode most of the time.

 

[mikeru82]

Agreed, but marketing works to motivate many people's buying decision. The word "Hemi" alone has sold many vehicles.

It seems that all you want to do is argue. You even argued with someone who was agreeing with you here.

 

[DEG]

It seems that all you want to do is argue. You even argued with someone who was agreeing with you here.

LOL! So what was the point of your post that provides no position whatsoever?

 

[Nascar Tommy]

Can I spend MY money the way I want?
Just wondering.

 

[DEG]

Can I spend MY money the way I want?
Just wondering.

No one has said you can't so you can stop wondering.

Some people only want to hear from an echo chamber than reflects their preconceived notions. However, some are easily manipulated by marketing and might appreciate hearing views that contradict that marketing.

Do you have a problem with hearing opposing views or do you just want to listen to an echo chamber?

 

[Nascar Tommy]

No one has said you can't so you can stop wondering.

Some people only want to hear from an echo chamber than reflects their preconceived notions. However, some are easily manipulated by marketing and might appreciate hearing views that contradict that marketing.

Do you have a problem with hearing opposing views or do you just want to listen to an echo chamber?

I don't mind opposing views but there's an old saying about a dead horse or something.

 

[mikeru82]

LOL! So what was the point of your post that provides no position whatsoever?

Comic relief? Last time I checked we were still free to voice an observation. As far as my position goes, read back through the thread. You'll see that my opinion on these isn't that much different than yours.

No one has said you can't so you can stop wondering.

Some people only want to hear from an echo chamber than reflects their preconceived notions. However, some are easily manipulated by marketing and might appreciate hearing views that contradict that marketing.

Do you have a problem with hearing opposing views or do you just want to listen to an echo chamber?

Pot...kettle. Kettle...pot.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I disagree and understand your desire to believe the airflow through something you spend your money on is just as cold as the factory setup you replaced. As I've said several times now the difference may be so small as to be insignificant, but duct work sitting on top of the radiator will collect more radiant heat than ductwork below or along the side of the radiator. As a result the air traveling through the warmer duct work will extract and retain more heat than the air traveling through the slightly cooler duct work. The speed of the air will just reduce the heat transfer; not eliminate it.

Once again, opinion. Back it up with proven third party testing, using temp sensors, then come back.

 

[HSKR R/T]

That applies well at wide open throttle, but street engines operate in starved mode most of the time.

When in closed loop, part throttle, or cruising, the ECU is using inputs from the O2 sensors to adjust fuel delivery to maintain the stoic A/F ratio. This basically cancels out any differences air temp will make.

 

[DEG]

Once again, opinion. Back it up with proven third party testing, using temp sensors, then come back.

No, that ball is in your court. I supported my opinion with the reason and logic below and you supported your opinion with absolutely nothing.

As I've said several times now the difference may be so small as to be insignificant, but duct work sitting on top of the radiator will collect more radiant heat than ductwork below or along the side of the radiator. As a result the air traveling through the warmer duct work will extract and retain more heat than the air traveling through the slightly cooler duct work. The speed of the air will just reduce the heat transfer; not eliminate it.​

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If you fail to understand or believe what I've written above then I can't help you. I have no desire to give you more of an education or scientific proof of the physics of heat transfer.