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Tazer has voided my warranty

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Mechanical issues prior to the voided warranty.


2019 Ram 150 0 ORP “long bed” - setting #5 bilsteins, 2”mopar ucas, hellwig sway bar, tonneau cover, bed mat, 20” Laramie sport wheels on 285/60r20 falkens. Flowmaster outlaw.

I understand that but by having this device there, you gave the dealership service dept an easy out.

In their eyes, it could have previously been there and a contributer to the failure, not the device itself but it's presence indicates a willingness to mod the vehicles PCM. Whether or not you did isn't relevant.

I feel bad for the OP but this is the game we play when we mod. My Z06 is heavily modified and I have no expectation of warranty for anything done to it. When S breaks, it's on me and typical failures are measured in the $8 to 10k range, broke a tranny and diff 2 years ago, 11k. Now I've possibly hurt a built engine, likely $4k if I'm lucky.

Not willing to gamble that with this truck where a trans alone is $5k
 
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Z Automotive makes a similar cable as well but adds an OBD2 port, doesn't replace the factory one

The KAOdTECH cable doesn't replace the factory OBD port. It has a male and female OBD port on it and can just be slaved in. I leave the factory OBD in place and just plug the KAOdTECH cable into it and my MX+ into the other connector and Velcro wrap it all up under the kick panel. It stays plugged in 100% of the time unless it goes in for service, then gets removed. Hell, I even left the cable plugged in once and stuffed up high where they couldn't see/find it unless they went looking at the CAN and LIN buss blocks where it plugs in and traced the wires.

The install instruction are a bit vague. IF you want to plug your OBD reader into the panel mount, you move the cable headers. However, it's not necessary to do so and isn't permanent anyway.

Pretty much every HD owner that uses AlfaOBD uses this cable as the SGM connection on the HD's is behind the instrument cluster (EVIC) and a PITA to get to as it requires the cluster to be removed.

Except for changes to the BCM settings, the dealers can't tell that anything was "tampered" with. Sure is a lot of Chicken Little in here on this subject. I've added the TTPMS and codes to my truck and made numerous BCM settings changes, tire size, etc.

We haven't had one single report on HDRams of anyone getting any warranty denial due to changes. There was even one owner that bricked his BCM and the dealer reflashed it to factory.

Active plugged in SGM bypass module and/or Tazer? Very possible. That gives them cause to make up anything they can get away with.
 
Doesn't matter, it alters the intended function of the software and or hardware
Grey area....yes, you modified technically because it didn't leave the factory that way, but the option is there, just not turned on. If you install the OEM power running boards after you buy the truck, you can have the feature turned on and it doesn't harm the warranty. Same thing that you're doing at home with Alpha and the like. I know that people can do other things that cause things to break and 100% agree that if you broke it, you fix it. The manufacturer shouldn't have to fix it under warranty.
In this case, the issue was happening prior to the tazer being there, so it should be repaired under the warranty. Kind of like, we're fixing this but then you're SOL. I also think that there should be a better process when a warranty is voided. Something that has to be written, in detail, on why a part (or entire) warranty is voided and how the modification the customer did caused the damage.
Taking this for instance, if I installed the tazer which arguably could void the electrical part of my warranty, it shouldn't affect if the axle breaks or rear window leaks or rambox pops open or any of other things that are not electrical related.
 
Grey area....yes, you modified technically because it didn't leave the factory that way, but the option is there, just not turned on. If you install the OEM power running boards after you buy the truck, you can have the feature turned on and it doesn't harm the warranty. Same thing that you're doing at home with Alpha and the like. I know that people can do other things that cause things to break and 100% agree that if you broke it, you fix it. The manufacturer shouldn't have to fix it under warranty.
In this case, the issue was happening prior to the tazer being there, so it should be repaired under the warranty. Kind of like, we're fixing this but then you're SOL. I also think that there should be a better process when a warranty is voided. Something that has to be written, in detail, on why a part (or entire) warranty is voided and how the modification the customer did caused the damage.
Taking this for instance, if I installed the tazer which arguably could void the electrical part of my warranty, it shouldn't affect if the axle breaks or rear window leaks or rambox pops open or any of other things that are not electrical related.
Not arguing that, simply that there was an unauthorized device altering how the truck performed and the dealer voided the warranty.
No the tazer shouldn't impact your warranty if an axle breaks however look at it from FCA's perspective, what else did you mod if you had this device? Did you tune it, break it, return to stock and bring it in?
Tampering with the PCM in any way is automatic voiding of the warranty.

They are being very black and white leaving no grey area, if you F with our software then bye, period.
 
Not arguing that, simply that there was an unauthorized device altering how the truck performed and the dealer voided the warranty.
No the tazer shouldn't impact your warranty if an axle breaks however look at it from FCA's perspective, what else did you mod if you had this device? Did you tune it, break it, return to stock and bring it in?
Tampering with the PCM in any way is automatic voiding of the warranty.

They are being very black and white leaving no grey area, if you F with our software then bye, period.

Regardless. They have to prove that device created the mechanical malfunction. A mechanical mano function that existed prior to them voiding his warranty.


2019 Ram 1500 ORP “long bed” - setting #5 bilsteins, 2”mopar ucas, hellwig sway bar, tonneau cover, bed mat, 20” Laramie sport wheels on 285/60r20 falkens. Flowmaster outlaw.
 
Not arguing that, simply that there was an unauthorized device altering how the truck performed and the dealer voided the warranty.
No the tazer shouldn't impact your warranty if an axle breaks however look at it from FCA's perspective, what else did you mod if you had this device? Did you tune it, break it, return to stock and bring it in?
Tampering with the PCM in any way is automatic voiding of the warranty.

They are being very black and white leaving no grey area, if you F with our software then bye, period.
We already agreed that the tazer does nothing to the PCM or TCM, so the transmission should be covered. They have fingerprints in those other modules to tell if you did anything.
 
Regardless. They have to prove that device created the mechanical malfunction. A mechanical mano function that existed prior to them voiding his warranty.


2019 Ram 1500 ORP “long bed” - setting #5 bilsteins, 2”mopar ucas, hellwig sway bar, tonneau cover, bed mat, 20” Laramie sport wheels on 285/60r20 falkens. Flowmaster outlaw.

No they don't, all they have to prove is PCM tampering
 
We already agreed that the tazer does nothing to the PCM or TCM, so the transmission should be covered. They have fingerprints in those other modules to tell if you did anything.

Again, if policy says any tampering with PCM voids warranty, then its ANY tampering. We all know that messing with the PCM will result in a warranty void. Its not a question of did the device cause the failure, its a question of whether a foreign device was connected to the PCM/BCM. The answer is yes
 
Again, if policy says any tampering with PCM voids warranty, then its ANY tampering. We all know that messing with the PCM will result in a warranty void. Its not a question of did the device cause the failure, its a question of whether a foreign device was connected to the PCM/BCM. The answer is yes
PCM, BCM, and TCM are 2 separate modules. PCM is engine, BCM is body, and TCM is transmission. So again, the tazer talks to the BCM. It doesn't modify or do anything with the PCM or TCM. Yes it was plugged in and turned on things that were already there, but it did not cause the transmission's mechanical failure.
The more I think about it, the more I would fight it. There are probably a couple of lawyers that would work on this.
Farmers are fighting the same type of thing with the right to repair bill.
 
PCM, BCM, and TCM are 2 separate modules. PCM is engine, BCM is body, and TCM is transmission. So again, the tazer talks to the BCM. It doesn't modify or do anything with the PCM or TCM. Yes it was plugged in and turned on things that were already there, but it did not cause the transmission's mechanical failure.
The more I think about it, the more I would fight it. There are probably a couple of lawyers that would work on this.
Farmers are fighting the same type of thing with the right to repair bill.
I think the primary difference between this issue and the farmers right-to-repair issue is the warranty coverage. Farmers just want to be able to fix their machines without paying ridiculous fees.
In this case, FCA doesn't want to fix a vehicle if it has been tinkered with. And I think they'd have a strong case for winning against lawyers - everything is so tied-together in these vehicles, than ANY kind of changes could affect the entire vehicle.
 
PCM, BCM, and TCM are 2 separate modules. PCM is engine, BCM is body, and TCM is transmission. So again, the tazer talks to the BCM. It doesn't modify or do anything with the PCM or TCM. Yes it was plugged in and turned on things that were already there, but it did not cause the transmission's mechanical failure.
The more I think about it, the more I would fight it. There are probably a couple of lawyers that would work on this.
Farmers are fighting the same type of thing with the right to repair bill.

I understand that but when I say PCM, I mean PCM, BCM and TCM, all the onboard computers and they all have the same tampering repercussions.
You're confusing the cause of the transmission failure being related to or not related to the tazer with the simple fact that the tazer was in use.
No one is saying that the tazer caused the problem and probably not even the dealer but the mere fact that it was in use is grounds for a warranty void at the dealership/FCA discretion
 
Regardless. They have to prove that device created the mechanical malfunction. A mechanical mano function that existed prior to them voiding his warranty.


2019 Ram 1500 ORP “long bed” - setting #5 bilsteins, 2”mopar ucas, hellwig sway bar, tonneau cover, bed mat, 20” Laramie sport wheels on 285/60r20 falkens. Flowmaster outlaw.
Did the shop say the Tazer (potentially) broke the trans; or are they saying that due to the Tazer being installed there is no more warranty, period. That is the determining factor.
The way it sounds, just having the Tazer installed means no more warranty work, at all, for any reason, even for issues prior to the installation.
FCA does not have to prove the Tazer had anything to do with the transmission, only that he had tampered with the electronics of the vehicle, which voids any warranty. Seems one has nothing to do with the other.
Tough deal, will be interesting to see what comes of it.
 
This is why I don’t even bother with those types of mods, it’s just not worth it. Feel bad for the OP but people need to understand this when buying or leasing.

Also, typically, if such an addition voids the warranty, then it voids the warranty. There’s no “if it affects this or that” or “they have to prove it damaged this”. If I add a lift kit that voids a warranty for example, then it voids the warranty. It’s not like if it causes something to go wrong, then it’s voided. It’s essentially an automatic void if they discover the mod or addition has been added.
 
Not to stir anybody up, but the mistake was the OP left it plugged in and the dealer noted it. If it wasn't there, most likely no issue. The Magnusson-Moss act protects the owner from issues like this but I'm sure it depends on how much time and money the owner wants to spend to fight them. That's the risk we all take when we choose to start modifying our vehicles, no matter how small the mod is.
As someone else mentioned previously, it depends on the dealer and how they choose to handle modifications and whether they are smart enough to differentiate the mod from the damaged system.

No it doesn't. That act for for something like your water pump fails and you install a NAPA water pump instead of an OEM. The manufacturer cannot void your warranty because you used an non OEM part provided that part operated the same as the OEM part or did not change the way the vehicle operates as intended by the manufacturer. Say you installed a aftermarket cam, as long as the came was the same spec as the factory cam and of the same quality, your fine. Install a cam dynamics 245° @ .50" lift cam and your warranty is void, not the same spec or compatible with the factory part and changed the intended operation of the vehicle.
Many people mis-interpertet Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, when you tamper with the PCM/TM/BCM they have the right to void the entire warranty for tampering due to the computer controlling everything on the vehicle and operating in a way not intended by the OEM and being altered by a non OEM programming tool.

What is the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act?​

What does Magnuson Moss mean for the aftermarket community?

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act prohibits automobile manufacturers and dealers from voiding a vehicle’s warranty because an aftermarket part or a part not made by the original manufacturer was installed on said vehicle.

Alright, so let’s translate that into regular people speak: your warranty for the most part will NOT be voided because you’ve installed an aftermarket part. Good. This act also prevents the dealer from requiring you to have all your repairs done at the dealership or from only installing replacement parts that are OEM.


While the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act covers a lot, if not nearly all, of the products you might install on your vehicle, things do start to get kind of complicated when we get into any particular part that might modify or change the way that your vehicle was intended to operate. So we want to make sure you know exactly how this all works before you dive into making major purchases of Aftermarket parts.

What is the specific wording of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act?​

Here’s the legal wording:

“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name…”


Now here’s the problem with that wording… say what?

Basically, having your vehicle serviced by someone other than the dealer and/or installing a part not made by the original manufacturer will not automatically void the warranty. It is in fact illegal for your dealer/manufacturer to have anything in your warranty that states you must have your service performed by them or that you must buy your replacement parts directly from them either.


The FTC has since found that this covers Aftermarket parts as well. But we should read that statement very carefully. So the FTC Consumer Alert released a statement titled “Auto Warranties, Routine Maintenance, and Repairs: Is Using the Dealer a Must?” And in this document there is specifically one section that mentions “aftermarket parts.” The following section of this article contains quotes taken directly from this report.

FTC Consumer Alert:​

“Will using ‘aftermarket’ parts void my warranty?”​

In other words, does installing an aftermarket part automatically void my warranty?

“No. An ‘aftermarket’ part is a part made by a company other other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. Simply using an aftermarket part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket part.”


Okay. So far, so good. But read on very carefully because we are getting into lawyer territory here:

“Still if it turns out that the aftermarket part was itself defective or wasn’t installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.”

And there’s the questionable part. Up until this section, the FTC Consumer Alert and the Magnuson-Moss Act made it sound like there was no way in hell that installing an aftermarket part would void your warranty. And technically that’s true, until you run the vehicle. Sigh.

If the dealer can prove that installing the aftermarket part lead to the failure or damaging another part that was originally covered by the warranty, well, then frankly, you’re sh!t out of luck. Now before you panic, we’ll show you how to cover your @ss below. But we do want to make this clear: installing something will never void the warranty. But using a product that changes the way your vehicle was intended to operate, that the dealer might be able to argue caused additional damage to original parts, could void your warranty or cause the dealer to require you to pay for those specific repairs that were allegedly caused by the aftermarket part.


The Truth about the Magnuson Moss Act​

So the truth is, based upon what we just learned, there are some aftermarket mods out there that would most likely void your warranty. However, most (probably all) of the products we sell here at Midwest Aftermarket should not have any danger of voiding your warranty. I say “most” because you never really know until you get a landmark legal case. So for now, as of this second, everything we sell has not ever voided a vehicle warranty to my knowledge. But the way our legal system works here in the US, all it takes is one case to change this.

I can pretty much stand by this though, because most of the products we sell don’t modify the way your engine operates or the intended way any part of your vehicle operates. Installing some fender flares or a step bar or even a larger wheel and tire isn’t going to change your engine’s factory settings. Hence you aren’t in any danger of voiding any warranty with these products. Putting on some Window Visors doesn’t change the way your windows function.

But rather than focusing on the safe zones covered by Magnuson Moss, why don’t we get into the stuff that we know for a fact will most definitely void your warranty if your dealer catches you with one installed.

NOS will Probably Void your Warranty​

For instance, considering something we do NOT sell: installing a NOS (or Nitrous Oxide) system will most likely void your warranty. Here’s why: it involves a direct change to the way your vehicle was designed to function. The manufacturer made your truck or Jeep or car to run on a specific fuel, be it diesel, gasoline, E85, whatever. And to my knowledge, no original manufacturer has created a stock engine that’s meant to run even momentarily on Nitrous.


Hence, if you were to bring your vehicle in to the dealer with a warranty claim and it had something to do with your engine, and they noticed your engine had been modified to include a NOS system, chances are they would not cover the charges to make those repairs and would blame the issues, even if it wasn’t necessarily due to the NOS, on the NOS, if that makes sense.

Now we don’t sell anything like that, and I will tell you buyer beware on that kind of mod. When you start changing up the fundamentals of how your engine works, chances are your warranty is going to go out the window. Now that same scenario would not necessarily mean that your warranty wouldn’t cover something non-engine related like say your window motor failing or a seatbelt issue. So bear that in mind before you tell your bro that the warranty is void just because he installed NOS. Cause that isn’t necessarily the case either. It all depends.

Performance Tuners: Will Programmers Void my Warranty?​

Maybe, but not if you are smart about your install. If the dealership can prove that the tuner somehow is responsible for the damage to whatever part you are trying to make a warranty claim on, then you may get stuck with the bill for that repair, though it is highly unlikely that this would void your warranty.

In the name of complete transparency, we carry one kind of product that could possibly fall into this category, and its performance tuners. If a dealer was really trying to screw you over, it is technically possible that they could try to blame something on a tuner. This wouldn’t void your warranty, but it could become a huge hassle if a dealer was trying to make you pay for a repair that should be covered by your warranty. So same difference, if you will.


Here’s how you make sure you don’t end up in this limbo area.

First, this is not super likely to happen. Most dealers don’t even notice that you’ve modified your ECU or PCM unless if they have a reason to go looking. Heck, I traded in my last vehicle with a modified custom tune installed on the PCM, and nobody was the wiser.

What should you do if you are using a performance tuner and want to take your vehicle into the dealership or for EPA emissions testing?​

How do I make sure the EPA or my dealership doesn’t know I’ve been using a programmer?

Three simple steps for making sure your dealer and the EPA are none the wiser:

Reset to Stock Tune

If possible, Unplug and Remove the Tuner

Don’t tell the dealer/EPA you were using a Programmer/Tuner

I know, right? It’s crazy simple. Heck, even if you just do step one, use your tuner or programmer to reset your ECU/PCM back to Stock settings, you’re pretty much in the clear. The EPA is just going to hook up their own little computer to the OBDII port. They’ll be none the wiser unless if you have something plugged into that port already. If you forget and leave the tuner plugged in, try this one that my buddy used one time:

Tell them that the tuner is actually one of those vehicle monitor systems that insurance companies use now. He had one from Progressive. It tracked how fast he drove and how hard he braked, and if he stayed within certain parameters each month, they’d give him a sweet discount for his insurance that month. Fun times and possibly true? Certainly believable.

As for the dealership, as long as you reset to stock and remove the tuner, all they will be able to tell using their own diagnostic tools via OBDII port is that something has been plugged in. If they ask, and it is doubtful they will, tell them you were checking a DTC or Diagnostic Trouble Code that popped up on your display. This could be anything from “Low Tire Pressure” to “Oil Change” to “Low Battery.”

It is completely legal for you to check these codes, and you don’t have to even own a DTC checker to do so. Most auto parts stores will check the codes for you. So if the dealer asks, which is highly unlikely, just tell them that you took your vehicle down to the local auto parts store to check a code and found out your internal air filter needed changed or something like that. While you’re at it, you might consider checking your internal air filter. I know I always forget about to clean and replace that one.

So basically, unless you really screw up and leave your tuner plugged in and then bring it to the dealer or EPA’s attention, you should be fine.
 
Many people mis-interpertet Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, when you tamper with the PCM/TM/BCM they have the right to void the entire warranty for tampering due to the computer controlling everything on the vehicle and operating in a way not intended by the OEM and being altered by a non OEM programming tool.

Is it really tampering if the option is already there and just needs to be activated? In this case, it's not like you're adding something that isn't OEM. Passive entry is an OEM option, your truck may not have it but all you're doing is adding the hardware and turning the feature on.
It comes down to them not knowing what you did and think their techs will do it better and correctly all the time. Even though when their techs break something, they don't want to do anything.
 
It comes down to them not knowing what you did and think their techs will do it better and correctly all the time.

I would say they don't even care about that. It's all about the money. For you to have a lot of these options it'll cost you thousands and thousands more for an upgraded package, options, etc. So for you to be able to have them for 200-300 bucks I would think pisses them off

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Not arguing that, simply that there was an unauthorized device altering how the truck performed and the dealer voided the warranty.
No the tazer shouldn't impact your warranty if an axle breaks however look at it from FCA's perspective, what else did you mod if you had this device? Did you tune it, break it, return to stock and bring it in?
Tampering with the PCM in any way is automatic voiding of the warranty.

They are being very black and white leaving no grey area, if you F with our software then bye, period.
Going by that line of thought, installing a tire that is a different size than factory, could be grounds for the dealer voiding your warranty.

Also, it might, and that's a stretch, cause power train warranty to be voided, but should have zero effect on any warranty when it comes to the body warranty.
 
Is it really tampering if the option is already there and just needs to be activated? In this case, it's not like you're adding something that isn't OEM. Passive entry is an OEM option, your truck may not have it but all you're doing is adding the hardware and turning the feature on.
It comes down to them not knowing what you did and think their techs will do it better and correctly all the time. Even though when their techs break something, they don't want to do anything.

I don't think it is but it doesn't matter how I see it, it's how FCA and the Dealer Service see it.
 
Going by that line of thought, installing a tire that is a different size than factory, could be grounds for the dealer voiding your warranty.

Also, it might, and that's a stretch, cause power train warranty to be voided, but should have zero effect on any warranty when it comes to the body warranty.

Tire sizes don't affect anything other than the speedometer.
Now, if you put a different tire size on the passenger side rear then you had on the driver rear and burn up your diff, that's voidable.
Also, I don't see FCA being concerned about a tire size change.
I do see them taking issue with the PCM/TCM/BCM tampering which they did.
As for the OP, IMO, they used the tazer as an excuse
  1. To make him go away
  2. Cover up for a mistake they made that FCA is no longer paying them to fix (it's a recurring problem not correctly solved previously)
  3. To make money off a repair that FCA will no longer pay them for
  4. He pissed them off somehow
  5. They don't know what the problem is and FCA isn't allowing them to continue to throw parts at it hoping they get it so they are using the Tazer as an excuse bill the OP
 
Going by that line of thought, installing a tire that is a different size than factory, could be grounds for the dealer voiding your warranty.

Also, it might, and that's a stretch, cause power train warranty to be voided, but should have zero effect on any warranty when it comes to the body warranty.
Actually running non OEM size tires absolutely can void a warranty. I read on an HD thread a guy was running 37” tires on his truck and something happened to his rear end. Warranty wouldn’t cover the repair because he was running those massive heavy tires.
 
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