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Start of 2022 Production.

@HAG1417 's post seems to confirm my theory (for once).

If they are not, "waiting for the parts to accumulate", and just building what they can, when they can, as stuff comes in, it makes sense that trucks with less options, and specifically ones with less technology(chip)-based options, can get out the door more easily because they simply don't need as many parts on hand at any given time to make them.

So while I'm sure there's some exceptions where people are getting fully optioned Limiteds relatively quickly, I strongly believe that the reason I got mine as quickly as I did was almost entirely because I did not get Level 1 or the Tech Group. I'm willing to bet that if I had ordered those, they would have gotten to my build request and been like, "okay we have that, we have that, yup, got that....no chips for the surround cameras though...or for the HUD...okay, moving on." But because I didn't, they got the to point where they had everything they needed for mine on-hand more quickly/easily.

Cue @Eighty rollin in with his data shotgun for my latest clay pigeon theory lol.
 
AngelPhoenix said:
@HAG1417 's post seems to confirm my theory (for once).

If they are not, "waiting for the parts to accumulate", and just building what they can, when they can, as stuff comes in, it makes sense that trucks with less options, and specifically ones with less technology(chip)-based options, can get out the door more easily because they simply don't need as many parts on hand at any given time to make them.

So while I'm sure there's some exceptions where people are getting fully optioned Limiteds relatively quickly, I strongly believe that the reason I got mine as quickly as I did was almost entirely because I did not get Level 1 or the Tech Group. I'm willing to bet that if I had ordered those, they would have gotten to my build request and been like, "okay we have that, we have that, yup, got that....no chips for the surround cameras though...or for the HUD...okay, moving on." But because I didn't, they got the to point where they had everything they needed for mine on-hand more quickly/easily.

Cue @Eighty rollin in with his data shotgun for my latest clay pigeon theory lol.
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My original order did not have the LL1 group and it wasn't even scheduled to be built in late October.
 
monkeypunch said:
My original order did not have the LL1 group and it wasn't even scheduled to be built in late October.
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Right, but based on that guy's post, all it takes is for ONE thing that they don't have on-hand to stop your truck from being built. So the they scheduled you, and when it was time they looked and said, "Nope....don't have the pano roof motor/HUD chip/rear seat ventilator control chip (from your 10th anni)..." just whatever, anything. And they skip over you. And then who knows what happens after that.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's bulls**t that you've had to wait this long. I know it's a tough situation but there's definitely other ways they could have handled this. But as time goes on, it seems more and more like, at least for a particular stretch of time, they were skipping over people that were "fully optioned" or close to it. The real issue now is, why are people who ordered more recently (like September/October) getting built even though they are "fully optioned" when dudes like you are STILL waiting.
 
That theory (excuse) doesn't hold water, based on the data. The problem for RAM is that this is all transparent. People are seeing the trucks being built with all the parts that could have gone to their 6+ month old order.

I don't buy for one second that this is about anything more than a business decision. They can make two trucks with the parts from one. More money. They can make more recently ordered trucks with a higher price point. More money. They can get a truck to a dealer and sold in 30 days instead of 31 days. More money. I don't really even fault them for that, but trying to explain it away doesn't sit right with me.

And I call BS on GM and Toyota are having the "same problems" right now. They're having the same problems as the rest of the industry as far as availability of parts, sure. But they aren't having these problems of people waiting nearly a year for their trucks to be built while watching trucks ordered a week ago hit the line. If I wanted a fully loaded 1794 next month, it'd be mine. I suspect I could have a 22 Denali Ultimate in my driveway before some here will have their RAM they ordered this past summer. That's on RAM.
 
HAG1417 said:
So I finally got a real answer on what’s going on with my build. First of all I am going to put this statement out before I post what I know. I have posted it before. I am a current Stellantis employee. The dealership I am working with is less then five miles from my facility. I will not publicly or privately (so save the pm’s)post where I got the following information. So I at the end of last week went to my dealership and I shook the tree pretty hard. My sales guy is great. He is long time sales guy and has been dealing with employees from my facility for quite sometime. So to cut to the chase. He got the dealership sales manager contact the regional sales manager who in turn got in contact with someone up in corporate. I have the complete email chain from my sales guy. The email included a screenshot of what I would say is part of the scheduling system. It showed Limited builds that are heavily optioned (exact wording from the email chain) like mine broken down listing as the option codes. So there was ten builds that are as heavily optioned as mine listed. Then the list was in order by order date. The it showed promised build date then slotted build date. So before I say what the build dates are keep in mind these are simple facts. I had for some stupid reason didn’t think anyone else had my exact build. Wrong!!!! The screen shot showed ten of my exact build. So the final piece of the puzzle. The heavily optioned Limited like mine at the top of the list has a 5/12/2021 order date. It has a 12/06/2021 promise build date. It has a slotted build date of 1/26/2022. The tenth one on the list (screenshot only shows those ten) has an order date of 6/10/2021 a promise date of 1/24/2022 and a slotted build date of 1/26/2022. The person that sent this then commented on my order date of 7/16/2021 will not get built until sometime in February. So all the talk about them gathering parts is like this. They build what they can build based on options available. They don’t “store your parts” waiting for everything to accumulate. There would not be enough storage space. So me not being a “instant gratification guy” I can wait to get what I want. You can whine all you want and say I am going order a GM or a Toyota. Guess what they all have current option restrictions too. Again don’t ask for the email as I love my job and I am not jeopardizing it period. Sorry for the long winded post but I thought this was important. Also Eighty or Triple B are more qualified to answer this. But the members builds from this forum is just a minor sliver of the sold orders Stellantis has currently. So I don’t expect to see my build sheet until February 2022.
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So it makes sense for a guy like me who ordered March 24th to have a build date of Nov 26th according to my dealer....we will see...not getting too excited until i see a BS and a WS....but there is a light at the end of the tunnel for me....
 
SnowBlaZR2 said:
That theory (excuse) doesn't hold water, based on the data. The problem for RAM is that this is all transparent. People are seeing the trucks being built with all the parts that could have gone to their 6+ month old order.

I don't buy for one second that this is about anything more than a business decision. They can make two trucks with the parts from one. More money. They can make more recently ordered trucks with a higher price point. More money. They can get a truck to a dealer and sold in 30 days instead of 31 days. More money. I don't really even fault them for that, but trying to explain it away doesn't sit right with me.

And I call BS on GM and Toyota are having the "same problems" right now. They're having the same problems as the rest of the industry as far as availability of parts, sure. But they aren't having these problems of people waiting nearly a year for their trucks to be built while watching trucks ordered a week ago hit the line. If I wanted a fully loaded 1794 next month, it'd be mine. I suspect I could have a 22 Denali Ultimate in my driveway before some here will have their RAM they ordered this past summer. That's on RAM.
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Again, it seems to me that for a specific period of time, this is what they were doing; skipping over more fully optioned trucks cause they didn't have all the parts all at once, and mine wasn't fully optioned. I kept my original price point, they didn't make extra money on me. And mine was D1 well before trucks started showing up on lots.

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you here, the bulls**t came in when they obviously started getting in the parts they needed for older orders, but chose to "make two trucks with parts from one" instead, as you said. To process newer orders for more profit, like you said. I think you're right about that.

Aslo, it's apparently going to take at least 4 months to get a new Tundra, and over a year to get a TRD Pro. I'd link the article but I can't find it right now. And if you drop buy the Tunrda forums, people are already having issues placing orders, and getting priced gouged.
 
AngelPhoenix said:
Cue @Eighty rollin in with his data shotgun for my latest clay pigeon theory lol.
Click to expand...
Lol, you make me sound like a party pooper (ok, I am).
I'm not going to blast any statistics right now, but the trouble I have with the explanation above is the same trouble I have with all of the explanations. The data just doesn't support it. Virtually every "part" that is blamed as a holdup is being steadily put into other vehicles. No one can provide an example of a part that is "just not available". I'll use my Rebel as an example. The order with VIN 101976 is just sitting there being ignored. But somehow, Ram can find the parts to build my re-order with VIN 215271. This isn't a parts problem - it's a messed-up scheduling problem.
 
HAG1417 said:
I was given a list of the specific options holding up many orders.
GWJ Dual-Pane Panoramic Sunroof
DMH 3.92 Rear axle ratio
A69 Limited Level 1 Equipment Group
ADE Cold Weather Group
MWK Multi-Function Tailgate

are the specific options holding up my build. If they don’t have them all at once they build what they can at the time. So the fascination with VIN numbers is pretty much irrelevant at this point based on what I have seen.
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Could explain why a Truck like this one gets built with Tow Mirrors and a 3.21 axle... https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6SRFHT6NN181445
 
Eighty said:
Lol, you make me sound like a party pooper (ok, I am).
I'm not going to blast any statistics right now, but the trouble I have with the explanation above is the same trouble I have with all of the explanations. The data just doesn't support it. Virtually every "part" that is blamed as a holdup is being steadily put into other vehicles. No one can provide an example of a part that is "just not available". I'll use my Rebel as an example. The order with VIN 101976 is just sitting there being ignored. But somehow, Ram can find the parts to build my re-order with VIN 215271. This isn't a parts problem - it's a messed-up scheduling problem.
Click to expand...
I understand, I'm just combining my personal experience with the info from HAG. My order was placed and went to D1 before the price increase, before Stellantis did the big trim change-up, and before any trucks for dealer lots were even scheduled/built. So the idea that they wanted to grab parts from mine to make two dealer trucks, or hold me up to try and force the price increase on me, etc. doesn't really hold up because...they built mine. It was just easier for them to push it out not fully optioned vs people who ordered before me but were fully optioned. And then, once they did the trim-change up and price increase they started screwing people over.

So maybe the aggregate data doesn't support my theory being a common practice, but everything I'm seeing/experienced seems to point to that being the case for at least my build specifically (i.e. I got mine quickly because they had all my parts on-hand at once more easily). If this isn't the reason than the only other real explanations are either my dealer has serious pull or absolute blind luck, and I think both of those are less likely than my truck having less options made it easier to get out.

Okay, I will shut up now. I feel terrible for people waiting since May/June and I would absolutely consider jumping ship to GMC/Toyota/whoever if that was the case for me.
 
AngelPhoenix said:
Again, it seems to me that for a specific period of time, this is what they were doing; skipping over more fully optioned trucks cause they didn't have all the parts all at once, and mine wasn't fully optioned. I kept my original price point, they didn't make extra money on me. And mine was D1 well before trucks started showing up on lots.

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you here, the bulls**t came in when they obviously started getting in the parts they needed for older orders, but chose to "make two trucks with parts from one" instead, as you said. To process newer orders for more profit, like you said. I think you're right about that.

Aslo, it's apparently going to take at least 4 months to get a new Tundra, and over a year to get a TRD Pro. I'd link the article but I can't find it right now. And if you drop buy the Tunrda forums, people are already having issues placing orders, and getting priced gouged.
Click to expand...

Sure, and that was all fine and well when people had only been waiting for a month or two. As this process has gone on, that excuse has lost any validity. If this excuse is what they're going with, whatever group of people is in charge of scheduling should be immediately fired and replaced by a bunch of millennials who know how to use a database.

I don't know what to tell you about the Tundras. I have the text from my dealer asking me if I want to get the ball rolling on a 1794 that would be in my driveway next month. He said if I wanted to order something else, it'd be about 10-12 weeks. Many of the delays they're having aren't really manufacturing delays. They aren't even releasing the iForce Max until April, I think. I think the biggest thing I'd say about Toyota, is that they're at least being up front.

I have little doubt that I wouldn't be waiting a year to get an ordered 1794. The reason I passed on the Tundra is because they weren't willing to negotiate the price at all, and were actually adding a markup above MSRP. I also want to wait for the iForce Max.
 
SnowBlaZR2 said:
Sure, and that was all fine and well when people had only been waiting for a month or two. As this process has gone on, that excuse has lost any validity. If this excuse is what they're going with, whatever group of people is in charge of scheduling should be immediately fired and replaced by a bunch of millennials who know how to use a database.

I don't know what to tell you about the Tundras. I have the text from my dealer asking me if I want to get the ball rolling on a 1794 that would be in my driveway next month. He said if I wanted to order something else, it'd be about 10-12 weeks. Many of the delays they're having aren't really manufacturing delays. They aren't even releasing the iForce Max until April, I think. I think the biggest thing I'd say about Toyota, is that they're at least being up front.

I have little doubt that I wouldn't be waiting a year to get an ordered 1794. The reason I passed on the Tundra is because they weren't willing to negotiate the price at all, and were actually adding a markup above MSRP. I also want to wait for the iForce Max.
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I'm sure people that ordered Rams early on were told something similar.

And as far as the price, that blows my mind honestly, they could make an absolute killing if they undercut the big three right now, especially with GMC releasing fancy new models that are even *more* expensive that the current top end.
 
AngelPhoenix said:
I'm sure people that ordered Ram's early on were told something similar.

And as far as the price, that blows my mind honestly, they could make an absolutely killing if they undercut the big three right now, especially with GMC releasing fancy new models that are even *more* expensive that the current top end.
Click to expand...
People who ordered RAM trucks in June were told it would be a year before theirs was built? I'd be surprised to hear that.

I mean, they already are undercutting them. A fully loaded 1794 is right around the same price as my modestly optioned Laramie. I chose RAM for a reason, but I do understand why people are looking to jump to another manufacturer right now.

And honestly, most of this is directed at the nonsense comment the Stellantis employee made about "whining" and "jumping to GM or Toyota." He's wrong.
 
Eighty said:
Lol, you make me sound like a party pooper (ok, I am).
I'm not going to blast any statistics right now, but the trouble I have with the explanation above is the same trouble I have with all of the explanations. The data just doesn't support it. Virtually every "part" that is blamed as a holdup is being steadily put into other vehicles. No one can provide an example of a part that is "just not available". I'll use my Rebel as an example. The order with VIN 101976 is just sitting there being ignored. But somehow, Ram can find the parts to build my re-order with VIN 215271. This isn't a parts problem - it's a messed-up scheduling problem.
Click to expand...

This is what is so frustrating. Just yesterday, my dealer received feedback from their Stellantis Rep that this combination is what is holding up my June 119xxx order:

Air Ride Suspension
Trailer Towing
Bed Utility Group
Off Road Group

It's clear the first 3 are bull#$%t because we are seeing BS/WS every day with these options. I haven't seen much here about the ORG lately. @Eighty, is it possible to see how many trucks have been produced recently with the ORG?
 
SnowBlaZR2 said:
People who ordered RAM trucks in June were told it would be a year before theirs was built? I'd be surprised to hear that.

I mean, they already are undercutting them. A fully loaded 1794 is right around the same price as my modestly optioned Laramie. I chose RAM for a reason, but I do understand why people are looking to jump to another manufacturer right now.

And honestly, most of this is directed at the nonsense comment the Stellantis employee made about "whining" and "jumping to GM or Toyota." He's wrong.
Click to expand...
No, I mean that early Ram orderers were told "oh yeah, like 12-14 weeks from when production starts, you'll have your truck!" and we see how that turned out.

I was tempted to wait for the new Tundra to place my Ram order, but once I heard they were dropping the V8 completely (why not still have it as an option??) I was like nah, not for me. Glad I didn't wait honestly, just my personal opinion but the exterior and the interior are...not good. Payload went the Ram route. Too much plastic on the outside. Engine reliability unknown. If I were jumping, I'd be looking at the refreshed GMC/Chevy.
 
milrad said:
This is what is so frustrating. Just yesterday, my dealer received feedback from their Stellantis Rep that this combination is what is holding up my June 119xxx order:

Air Ride Suspension
Trailer Towing
Bed Utility Group
Off Road Group

It's clear the first 3 are bull#$%t because we are seeing BS/WS every day with these options. I haven't seen much here about the ORG lately. @Eighty, is it possible to see how many trucks have been produced recently with the ORG?
Click to expand...

Well I can tell you that one of the trucks with a build sheet today had ORG, because it's similar to mine from the same dealer.
 
SnowBlaZR2 said:
People who ordered RAM trucks in June were told it would be a year before theirs was built? I'd be surprised to hear that.

I mean, they already are undercutting them. A fully loaded 1794 is right around the same price as my modestly optioned Laramie. I chose RAM for a reason, but I do understand why people are looking to jump to another manufacturer right now.

And honestly, most of this is directed at the nonsense comment the Stellantis employee made about "whining" and "jumping to GM or Toyota." He's wrong.
Click to expand...
I'm a June order and was told 12 weeks
 
AngelPhoenix said:
No, I mean that early Ram orderers were told "oh yeah, like 12-14 weeks from when production starts, you'll have your truck!" and we see how that turned out.

I was tempted to wait for the new Tundra to place my Ram order, but once I heard they were dropping the V8 completely (why not still have it as an option??) I was like nah, not for me. Glad I didn't wait honestly, just my personal opinion but the exterior and the interior are...not good. Payload went the Ram route. Too much plastic on the outside. Engine reliability unknown. If I were jumping, I'd be looking at the refreshed GMC/Chevy.
Click to expand...

I don't have a reason to doubt Toyota, when they've laid out the issues that they are having so plainly.

I have a hard time believing that Toyota is going to have issues with quality based on past history and they're overall philosophy with engineering, manufacturing, etc.

Dropping the V8 as an option was a killer for sure. And yeah, the Denali Ultimate is on my list if I'm still waiting for a RAM in the spring.
 
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