Start of 2022 Production.

[Usmc041127]

I believe that is the honest truth. The COO of Toyota was on the radio saying exactly what you explained. Its the mangled supply chain. Toyotas parts time was down to 8 minutes prior to being installed on the new vehicle.

So I finally got a real answer on what’s going on with my build. First of all I am going to put this statement out before I post what I know. I have posted it before. I am a current Stellantis employee. The dealership I am working with is less then five miles from my facility. I will not publicly or privately (so save the pm’s)post where I got the following information. So I at the end of last week went to my dealership and I shook the tree pretty hard. My sales guy is great. He is long time sales guy and has been dealing with employees from my facility for quite sometime. So to cut to the chase. He got the dealership sales manager contact the regional sales manager who in turn got in contact with someone up in corporate. I have the complete email chain from my sales guy. The email included a screenshot of what I would say is part of the scheduling system. It showed Limited builds that are heavily optioned (exact wording from the email chain) like mine broken down listing as the option codes. So there was ten builds that are as heavily optioned as mine listed. Then the list was in order by order date. The it showed promised build date then slotted build date. So before I say what the build dates are keep in mind these are simple facts. I had for some stupid reason didn’t think anyone else had my exact build. Wrong!!!! The screen shot showed ten of my exact build. So the final piece of the puzzle. The heavily optioned Limited like mine at the top of the list has a 5/12/2021 order date. It has a 12/06/2021 promise build date. It has a slotted build date of 1/26/2022. The tenth one on the list (screenshot only shows those ten) has an order date of 6/10/2021 a promise date of 1/24/2022 and a slotted build date of 1/26/2022. The person that sent this then commented on my order date of 7/16/2021 will not get built until sometime in February. So all the talk about them gathering parts is like this. They build what they can build based on options available. They don’t “store your parts” waiting for everything to accumulate. There would not be enough storage space. So me not being a “instant gratification guy” I can wait to get what I want. You can whine all you want and say I am going order a GM or a Toyota. Guess what they all have current option restrictions too. Again don’t ask for the email as I love my job and I am not jeopardizing it period. Sorry for the long winded post but I thought this was important. Also Eighty or Triple B are more qualified to answer this. But the members builds from this forum is just a minor sliver of the sold orders Stellantis has currently. So I don’t expect to see my build sheet until February 2022.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

So, The improvement could be the elimination of custom orders?

The improvement could be don't allow orders that you can't handle.

I think we're seeing RAM attempt to do just that with the endless changes to available options and what's included in certain trims and packages.

 

[KWKSLVR]

You are getting more response from MD then I am. It just been told "it is what it is". No dates or following up with anyone...

To be fair to them, I pushed hard for them to seek out an explanation because I'm being pressured to move on from inside my household.

For Toyota related stuff with their production, I do not know about the Tundra, but I have a friend seeking to trade in his Tacoma for a 4Runner. When I suggested he reach out to several dealers, as well as a volume dealer here in our state, he was told, "Toyota is not doing custom orders for the 4Runner at this time". Now, I don't know if that's dealer speak for, "we've used up our allotments already and want to sell you one of the lot at an inflated price" but it's what he's been told.

He's pursuing a lot truck off of our volume dealership's lot and I'll let everyone know if he gets any info about new vehicle ordering. Look, everyone is hammered, it's just the degree they're affected. BMW has pulled touch screens. Tesla has pulled heated seats and rear USB-C ports. Subaru is hammered so hard they cannot keep up at all.

 

[Usmc041127]

Sure they are building them with the limited parts on hand but the stars may not align at the exact right time. They may be building what they can with the parts they have available at that specific moment. Like the Toyota COO said their supply chain time for certain parts was down to 8 minutes prior to being installed.

Lol, you make me sound like a party pooper (ok, I am).
I'm not going to blast any statistics right now, but the trouble I have with the explanation above is the same trouble I have with all of the explanations. The data just doesn't support it. Virtually every "part" that is blamed as a holdup is being steadily put into other vehicles. No one can provide an example of a part that is "just not available". I'll use my Rebel as an example. The order with VIN 101976 is just sitting there being ignored. But somehow, Ram can find the parts to build my re-order with VIN 215271. This isn't a parts problem - it's a messed-up scheduling problem.

 

[KWKSLVR]

The way I look at all this is simply do I want my truck much later than I thought or not at all. Frankly, I want my truck as ordered. If that means it's December or January then I guess it is what it is. It seems clear that no amount of pressure is going to change things.

 

[Scott_R]

The improvement could be don't allow orders that you can't handle.

Here is one they could handle. It even has your Tan Interior... Sitting at a Dealer in Muncy PA... No Tow group, however you could get it by next month.

https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6SRFJT7NN170979

Same dealer has this on the way... A bit of an upgrade to the Laramie, but you have eveything but the trailer reverse steering.

https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6SRFKT6NN139463

My point is that if you are willing to search and match incoming inventory to what you want, Ram is doing no worse then Toyota.

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Here is one they could handle. It even has your Tan Interior... Sitting at a Dealer in Muncy PA... No Tow group, however you could get it by next month.

https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6SRFJT7NN170979

Same dealer has this on the way... A bit of an upgrade to the Laramie, but you have eveything but the trailer reverse steering.

https://www.jeep.com/hostd/windowsticker/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=1C6SRFKT6NN139463

My point is that if you are willing to search and match incoming inventory to what you want, Ram is doing no worse then Toyota.

Both of those trucks have multiple options missing that are deal breakers for me.

I mean, if your point is that I could get a truck right now if only I found something I don't want...then sure. I could go with any manufacturer if I wanted that...

 

[Gr8dane]

So I finally got a real answer on what’s going on with my build. First of all I am going to put this statement out before I post what I know. I have posted it before. I am a current Stellantis employee. The dealership I am working with is less then five miles from my facility. I will not publicly or privately (so save the pm’s)post where I got the following information. So I at the end of last week went to my dealership and I shook the tree pretty hard. My sales guy is great. He is long time sales guy and has been dealing with employees from my facility for quite sometime. So to cut to the chase. He got the dealership sales manager contact the regional sales manager who in turn got in contact with someone up in corporate. I have the complete email chain from my sales guy. The email included a screenshot of what I would say is part of the scheduling system. It showed Limited builds that are heavily optioned (exact wording from the email chain) like mine broken down listing as the option codes. So there was ten builds that are as heavily optioned as mine listed. Then the list was in order by order date. The it showed promised build date then slotted build date. So before I say what the build dates are keep in mind these are simple facts. I had for some stupid reason didn’t think anyone else had my exact build. Wrong!!!! The screen shot showed ten of my exact build. So the final piece of the puzzle. The heavily optioned Limited like mine at the top of the list has a 5/12/2021 order date. It has a 12/06/2021 promise build date. It has a slotted build date of 1/26/2022. The tenth one on the list (screenshot only shows those ten) has an order date of 6/10/2021 a promise date of 1/24/2022 and a slotted build date of 1/26/2022. The person that sent this then commented on my order date of 7/16/2021 will not get built until sometime in February. So all the talk about them gathering parts is like this. They build what they can build based on options available. They don’t “store your parts” waiting for everything to accumulate. There would not be enough storage space. So me not being a “instant gratification guy” I can wait to get what I want. You can whine all you want and say I am going order a GM or a Toyota. Guess what they all have current option restrictions too. Again don’t ask for the email as I love my job and I am not jeopardizing it period. Sorry for the long winded post but I thought this was important. Also Eighty or Triple B are more qualified to answer this. But the members builds from this forum is just a minor sliver of the sold orders Stellantis has currently. So I don’t expect to see my build sheet until February 2022.

Gm, Toyota, Ford are having the same issues yes but, they are still building in sequence. I ordered my Ram in April. Best friend ordered a Denali less than a month later. He has over 5000km on his my truck is still sitting in Detroit.

 

[herddogg]

Just checked in with Ram chat and it sounds like I've gone to D1! After pushing the issue with my dealer about a week ago the factory rep told him estimated build date was 12/8 so this gives me hope now that I've stepped up to D1.

According to RamChat code language, my original order for a backcountry bighorn(120759) is in D1 now.

 

[Scott_R]

Both of those trucks have multiple options missing that are deal breakers for me.

I mean, if your point is that I could get a truck right now if only I found something I don't want...then sure. I could go with any manufacturer if I wanted that...

Exactly. And, isn't that what the Toyota guy is saying? If you want that 1794, you could have it. And, that is no different from numerous '22 Rams now sitting on lots.

If your concern with Ram is that their custom orders are taking longer then estimates that is fair. To say that they are doing worst then Toyota that is not even allowing custom orders, seems to me to be a apples to nashi comparison. And, I think it misses the point at the very start of this thread where @HAG1417 illustrated that highly custom options were driving many of the delays.

 

[x50]

I'd be looking at the refreshed GMC/Chevy

Before I ordered the RAM I was shopping Silverados, Sierras, and F150s. The trims/packages needed to get both an auto-dimming exterior and an interior review view mirror are a joke at the price point.

 

[Gr8dane]

Gm, Toyota, Ford are having the same issues yes but, they are still building in sequence. I ordered my Ram in April. Best friend ordered a Denali less than a month later. He has over 5000km on his my truck is still sitting in Detroit.

Also the only holdup on my build was the Pano roof which they said none available. I go to my dealer last Sunday and ask how they have 4 trucks that just arrived with a Vin number wayyyy higher than mine. The first thing he mumbled to his co worker was we need underground parking and then they just happened to find those ones. At that point ill admit i lost my ****. While i dont work with cars or trucks i did spend years in supply management for 2 different passenger train companies and we worked pretty closely with Porsche. Their whole stance on shortages is bs. All they are doing is trying to maximize profits

 

[Scott_R]

Gm, Toyota, Ford are having the same issues yes but, they are still building in sequence. I ordered my Ram in April. Best friend ordered a Denali less than a month later. He has over 5000km on his my truck is still sitting in Detroit.

Sorry, I do not believe this for a second. Your friend may have different options, or GMC had the parts they needed first, however no modern factory with just-in-time parts management builds in strict sequence. And, I assume we are talking about a 2021 Denali...

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Exactly. And, isn't that what the Toyota guy is saying? If you want that 1794, you could have it. And, that is no different from numerous '22 Rams now sitting on lots.

If your concern with Ram is that their custom orders are taking longer then estimates that is fair. To say that they are doing worst then Toyota that is not even allowing custom orders, seems to me to be a apples to nashi comparison. And, I think it misses the point at the very start of this thread where @HAG1417 illustrated that highly custom options were driving many of the delays.

No, not at all. He said the truck we talked about is built and ready and it's mine if I want it. It's quite literally the exact truck I want. Not "kind of if you don't care about any of the options you picked and go with whatever volume build RAM dealers have sitting on their lots."

And I don't think it illustrates his point at all. RAM has made a decision here. It isn't an outcome of the circumstances as much as they and their employees want to claim. They could resolve this issue, and in my opinion they could do it somewhat easily.

 

[Werfs Flammen]

Speaking about the Toyota talk, someone shared with me something I found interesting. Almost all manufacturing has been working on a "Just in time" building method. Get the parts and instantly start assembly. The cuts down on storage space for materials and extra capital. This has worked good for the industry for years as they can forecast delivery and other manufacturing times backwards. But during the tsunami that wrecked Japan in 2011 they started to reevaluate that strategy. They began to make a small buffer of back logged materials. So when the more global supply strain happened they were more prepared than some of the others.

I also believe it isn't a direct comparison when you can't exactly pick and choose your build like you can here. IMO JDM vehicles cut that down to allow for their manufacturing to be quicker/simpler. They then just shuffle incoming vehicles to dealers who ask for a specific vehicle. This was my experience when we were buying a Subaru once a year for my wife.

 

[Gr8dane]

Sorry, I do not believe this for a second. Your friend may have different options, or GMC had the parts they needed first, however no modern factory with just-in-time parts management builds in strict sequence. And, I assume we are talking about a 2021 Denali...

2021 denali yes but i also ordered a 2022 Ram. It was my brother in law that sold it to him. Did a custom built for me as well with more options than my Ram same as my buddies. However i couldn't resist rams interior in comparison and ram offer 0% while they were 4.9% like i said in a later post trucks are in the lot in my hometown with more options and higher vins than mine.

 

[Eighty]

Sure they are building them with the limited parts on hand but the stars may not align at the exact right time. They may be building what they can with the parts they have available at that specific moment. Like the Toyota COO said their supply chain time for certain parts was down to 8 minutes prior to being installed.

Well, I guess my point here is: The stars are somehow aligning for my NEW Rebel order (dealer just told me it has an estimated ship date of 12/4), but the stars are magically NOT aligning for the old order. Same truck, basically. Ram is mismanaging this.

 

[Scott_R]

No, not at all. He said the truck we talked about is built and ready and it's mine if I want it. It's quite literally the exact truck I want. Not "kind of if you don't care about any of the options you picked and go with whatever volume build RAM dealers have sitting on their lots."

And I don't think it illustrates his point at all. RAM has made a decision here. It isn't an outcome of the circumstances as much as they and their employees want to claim. They could resolve this issue, and in my opinion they could do it somewhat easily.

Reads like Toyota just matched to your needs better out of the gate without the need to customize.

With that being the case, seems like you have a tough decision to make. Switch to a volume built Ram, wait for your custom build, or switch to the volume built 1794. All the best with the decision.

 

[Gr8dane]

Speaking about the Toyota talk, someone shared with me something I found interesting. Almost all manufacturing has been working on a "Just in time" building method. Get the parts and instantly start assembly. The cuts down on storage space for materials and extra capital. This has worked good for the industry for years as they can forecast delivery and other manufacturing times backwards. But during the tsunami that wrecked Japan in 2011 they started to reevaluate that strategy. They began to make a small buffer of back logged materials. So when the more global supply strain happened they were more prepared than some of the others.

I also believe it isn't a direct comparison when you can't exactly pick and choose your build like you can here. IMO JDM vehicles cut that down to allow for their manufacturing to be quicker/simpler. They then just shuffle incoming vehicles to dealers who ask for a specific vehicle. This was my experience when we were buying a Subaru once a year for my wife.

Toyota does do that. Lean manufacturing its called. Get rid of warehouses and goto a scheduled delivery system except for parts used for all. (Nuts, bolts etc run on a Kan Ban system).

 

[SnowBlaZR2]

Reads like Toyota just matched to your needs better out of the gate without the need to customize.

With that being the case, seems like you have a tough decision to make. Switch to a volume built Ram, wait for your custom build, or switch to the volume built 1794. All the best with the decision.

I mean, I don't see how it reads that way. I'm telling you that I am getting literally the truck that I asked my dealer for. Toyota does it differently, but it's exactly the truck I requested.