So I called FCA about Harman Kardon system.

[matty]

I'm happy with the sound quality of my HK system. However, the vibration/rattle coming from the rear is annoying. I know there's another thread created in reference to that problem, but I hope there's a fix that solves this as well. Other than the bass rattle, absolutely love my truck!

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

I cranked my HK to 38 just to see what the issue is. I would have thought that with 19 speakers it would have been louder but it was louder then I would normally listen to it at. I will say that even at 38 the sound was still clear and well balanced.

And there is a clue as to one potential problem....gain structure. The system has a tunable DSP and if not setup optimally, may be underdriving the amps. If the system has no signs of audible distortion, it is not approaching the limits of the amps and could potentially be pushed harder. Maybe it's close to the limits, maybe not.

To those concerned with 3 band equalization, the DSP probably has parametric EQ adjustment internally and should be tuned for flat response based on nodal frequencies (resonant freqs in the cab based on dimensions, physical structures, and surfaces). Once this is done, 3 wideband frequencies are ok, just not optimal, to adust to taste. On a well tuned system, there is no reason to boost/cut a narrow band unless the system has been modified, the recorded material is crap, or the listener wants more emphasis than the recording engineer intended. I'm a pro audio engineer and tune PA systems in different live venues and studios weekly. I don't mod car audio systems so my knowledge is limited to DSP's for studio and live applications. Audio is audio though. I fully acknowledge that many listeners want altered music and that's fine. A custom stereo installation is best suited for that.

I doubt the DSP is well tuned or has proper gain structure at this point based on what I'm hearing reported. I'll offer my opinion first hand when I get my truck in the next week or so. I don't claim to have golden ears. I will, however, make some measurements with a calibrated mic and preamp for frequency response, max spl, etc.

Let's hope a software update CAN in fact tweak the best out of the hardware we paid for.

 

[Agustinacosta]

And there is a clue as to one potential problem....gain structure. The system has a tunable DSP and if not setup optimally, may be underdriving the amps. If the system has no signs of audible distortion, it is not approaching the limits of the amps and could potentially be pushed harder. Maybe it's close to the limits, maybe not.

To those concerned with 3 band equalization, the DSP probably has parametric EQ adjustment internally and should be tuned for flat response based on nodal frequencies (resonant freqs in the cab based on dimensions, physical structures, and surfaces). Once this is done, 3 wideband frequencies are ok, just not optimal, to adust to taste. On a well tuned system, there is no reason to boost/cut a narrow band unless the system has been modified, the recorded material is crap, or the listener wants more emphasis than the recording engineer intended. I'm n pro audio engineer and tune PA systems in different live venues and studios weekly. I don't mod car audio systems so my knowledge is limited to DSP's for studio and live applications. Audio is audio though. I fully acknowledge that many listeners want altered music and that's fine. A custom stereo installation is best suited for that.

I doubt the DSP is well tuned or has proper gain structure at this point based on what I'm hearing reported. I'll offer my opinion first hand when I get my truck in the next week or so. I don't claim to have golden ears. I will, however, make some measurements with a calibrated mic and preamp for frequency response, max spl, etc.

Let's hope a software update CAN in fact tweak the best out of the hardware we paid for.

Why don’t you call FCA applying for a job and help us all here. I bet their engineers are not as good as you for real. Nice to find people here with a lot of knowledge and willing to help. Hope yours sounds like you want and not end like me really disappointed. And thinking I bought the 17 because of the sound system

 

[Bacoviah]

And there is a clue as to one potential problem....gain structure. The system has a tunable DSP and if not setup optimally, may be underdriving the amps. If the system has no signs of audible distortion, it is not approaching the limits of the amps and could potentially be pushed harder. Maybe it's close to the limits, maybe not.

To those concerned with 3 band equalization, the DSP probably has parametric EQ adjustment internally and should be tuned for flat response based on nodal frequencies (resonant freqs in the cab based on dimensions, physical structures, and surfaces). Once this is done, 3 wideband frequencies are ok, just not optimal, to adust to taste. On a well tuned system, there is no reason to boost/cut a narrow band unless the system has been modified, the recorded material is crap, or the listener wants more emphasis than the recording engineer intended. I'm a pro audio engineer and tune PA systems in different live venues and studios weekly. I don't mod car audio systems so my knowledge is limited to DSP's for studio and live applications. Audio is audio though. I fully acknowledge that many listeners want altered music and that's fine. A custom stereo installation is best suited for that.

I doubt the DSP is well tuned or has proper gain structure at this point based on what I'm hearing reported. I'll offer my opinion first hand when I get my truck in the next week or so. I don't claim to have golden ears. I will, however, make some measurements with a calibrated mic and preamp for frequency response, max spl, etc.

Let's hope a software update CAN in fact tweak the best out of the hardware we paid for.

I was fixing to break out my laptop and mic as we speak. Let y’all know what I find out.

 

[Jstadick]

Stupid question....how did you get to the System Information Screen? My 12" settings screen doesn't list a System or System Info option as the manual references. Also couldn't find it in any of the sub menus.

 

[Edwards]

Stupid question....how did you get to the System Information Screen? My 12" settings screen doesn't list a System or System Info option as the manual references. Also couldn't find it in any of the sub menus.

While running hold down the two outside icons on the bottom of the 12" (doesn't matter which ones you've set, just the 2 outside ones) for ~10 seconds until the dealer mode appears. Then choose the top option and then audio and Bob's your uncle.

 

[Jordan2929]

Can someone with a newer build date and a HK system with the 8.4NAV screen post a pic of their software, hardware, and all of the other numbers

These are my numbers and I'm having the very low volume problem.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

What we need is the software tool for tuning the DSP. I have no idea if that is available or not but THAT would be the ticket for tuning the system.

 

[Jstadick]

While running hold down the two outside icons on the bottom of the 12" (doesn't matter which ones you've set, just the 2 outside ones) for ~10 seconds until the dealer mode appears. Then choose the top option and then audio and Bob's your uncle.

Awesome..Thanks!

 

[Agustinacosta]

Do you recall what the vol level was with bluetooth? Just curious. I have not tried BT, but I usually have my vol at a 7 or 8 for SAT or FM.

How can I upload a video as an attachment?

 

[Agustinacosta]

I bought an infinity Q50 a few years ago. That had the Bose 13 or 16 (I forget) speaker system in it with 3 10” woofers. At the time, it was regarded as the best stereo system ever put into a car. It sounded great, dynamic, tuned, crystal clear at all volumes BUT you just couldn’t “feel” it.

I think you guys with the HK system are hearing the type of system I described above and it is something you are not use to because it lacks “feel”. I’d wager that if you installed a sub that moves some air, you’d regard it as the best system you’ve ever heard.

That of course doesn’t solve your current problem but I think the design is not by mistake but by intent. I think Ram views the type of buyer who buys this system to be the sophisticated classical / opera type listener like infinity did.

I think you really hit the nail bro. That’s exactly how I describe this, you hear the music but when you want to feel it you can’t.

 

[Agustinacosta]

I realize this is anecdotal, but I had an issue with the HK system on my early-build '15 Charger Hellcat as well. I'm fortunate enough to live near Chrysler's Quality Engineering Center, and I volunteered to "donate" my car to them for a few weeks so they could figure out the issue. It turns out there was a wiring issue on all of the Chargers that reversed the orientation of the wires in the amp harness. This caused tweeters and woofers to be swapped, as well as phase issues. They were able to remap the outputs on the amp with software and it made a huge improvement in the sound. This update was later applied to all chargers that complained of audio issues. Anyway, the point of the story is that there *is* hope here. They've succeeded at fixing issues like this with software in the past.

I'll let someone else "donate" their truck to the QEC this time, to get it figured out. Lol. The HK system in my limited actually sounds very, very good except for the door panel vibration with hard bass hits.

Here is the weird thing with that vibration, you know there’s something there loud enough to make vibrate the door but you still can’t feel the music or the low notes.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

I think you really hit the nail bro. That’s exactly how I describe this, you hear the music but when you want to feel it you can’t.

"Feeling it" is usually "hyped" bass which, unless specifically mixed that way in the studio and mastering process, is not a accurate reproduction of the original recording regardless of the music type. Today, many listeners prefer hyped up bass. Nothing wrong with that. I suspect the HK system is designed to deliver an accurate reproduction. The design goal was "full range and flat response". In the proaudio world that's what we want. I like a little extra bass for non-critical listening and adding an extra sub or upgrading may be the ticket.

This article details the hiring of a studio producer to tune the Ram HK system. It has a bunch of crap about country music...ignore that...the point being that a proaudio guy tuned the system for accurate reproduction not a hyped EQ for extra feel.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebu...e-cobb-to-fine-tune-audio-in-cab-of-new-1500/

 

[Agustinacosta]

"Feeling it" is usually "hyped" bass which, unless specifically mixed that way in the studio and mastering process, is not a accurate reproduction of the original recording regardless of the music type. Today, many listeners prefer hyped up bass. Nothing wrong with that. I suspect the HK system is designed to deliver an accurate reproduction. The design goal was "full range and flat response". In the proaudio world that's what we want. I like a little extra bass for non-critical listening and adding an extra sub or upgrading may be the ticket.

This article details the hiring of a studio producer to tune the Ram HK system. It has a bunch of crap about country music...ignore that...the point being that a proaudio guy tuned the system for accurate reproduction not a hyped EQ for extra feel.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebu...e-cobb-to-fine-tune-audio-in-cab-of-new-1500/

But how can you explain that some systems have better bass and loud notes than this HK. I think that crossover here Is key. I can realize there’s a lack of certain frequency on low notes.

 

[Phiefer]

Can someone with a newer build date and a HK system with the 8.4NAV screen post a pic of their software, hardware, and all of the other numbers

These are my numbers and I'm having the very low volume problem.

These are my numbers with a very good sounding system at a volume level of 7 to 9. Looks like you have the smaller display and a few older versions of things.

 

[SpeedyV]

These are my numbers with a very good sounding system at a volume level of 7 to 9. Looks like you have the smaller display and a few older versions of things.View attachment 5774

Mine matches yours. Volume 7 is pretty low...background music level. I usually am in the 8-10 range for casual listening. Anything above 11 or 12 is "I want to jam out" level.

 

[Jordan2929]

These are my numbers with a very good sounding system at a volume level of 7 to 9. Looks like you have the smaller display and a few older versions of things.View attachment 5774

Yeah I'm pretty sure (but not positive) the differences in versions is due to you having the larger screen, thats why I was hoping someone was in the same situation as me.

 

[ExcursionDiesel]

But how can you explain that some systems have better bass and loud notes than this HK. I think that crossover here Is key. I can realize there’s a lack of certain frequency on low notes.

It's all relative to how you like your music. Many listeners want a hyped up bass. Headphone manufacturers make "extended bass" headphones that are NOT flat response and true to the original recording. Everybody wants bass boost. That's fine but it it's not accurate reproduction. I am totally going by what I read as the design goals for the Ram HK system in the link I posted earlier. If someone wants more bump and boom, an add-on or upgraded sub may be the ticket.

I'm due to pickup my Limited any day now and then I'll have a better idea of what the HK's charactoristics are. My current Grand Cherokee has the Alpine 9 speaker and it has a boomy sub that sounds "good", but the other speakers lack clarity above 4k. I usually run the treble at +4 but then it gets a bit harsh in the mid-highs.

Keep in mind that I am listening to music that I performed and recorded myself and I'm always attempting to get the EXACT same sound from the Alpine. I know exactly what my guitar and vocals sounds like. I prefer a system that does not color the sound....but I am the minority. Most people set the EQ to a "smiley face" (boosted bass, scooped mids, boosted highs) and turn it up. I'm not an "audiophile" who pretends to hear differences like oxygen free cables and other nonsense. I'm just a musician and proaudio engineer that understands audio systems. To each their own....whatever sounds good to the listener sounds good. Period. I prefer accurate reproduction.

 

[Phiefer]

Mine matches yours. Volume 7 is pretty low...background music level. I usually am in the 8-10 range for casual listening. Anything above 11 or 12 is "I want to jam out" level.

I agree with your vol level numbers, with wife out of the truck, I'm getting a little more bold with the volume. Seeing more levels of 9 & 10.

 

[19RamLimited]

The 8.4 21.9 update cause audio quality issues. Its got several threads about it. They stopped pushing the update because of it. The 8.4 and 12.1 have different software.