ROUGH starts on cold starts?

[Dusty1948]

Awesome. Thanks for posting.

Did you take the TSB #/printout in with you when you brought it to their attention "rough idle on cold start".

or

Did the tech find the TSB based off the concern?

I mentioned something about this before, but I didn't have an appointment. service advisor was unwilling to look up anything related.

No, I wasn't even aware of the TSB went I went in for service.

I talked to the technician directly after he asked me a question regarding the symptom. During my presence he went into the diagnostic routine to check on things, and he followed a thread in the diagnostic that led to a symptom/problem area of the procedure. He found the symptom even though the symptom or the TSB did not apply to my DT based on VIN. Intuitive thinking led him to flash the PCM based on the symptom (He's got 20+ years servicing Mopars.).

You are correct, this particular TSB does address a number of issues and I don't remember if rough idle was actually spelled out in the TSB, but it was on the diagnostic screen.

As an aside I asked the tech. why he applied the flash since my VIN fell outside the range of affected vehicles. I have to paraphrase, but basically he said that sometimes they miss VINs because they were held back on the line, or at the particular assembly line station the PCM (or other modules) didn't get the full download.

All I can tell you is it fixed the issue.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 039706 miles.

 

[User_3336]

Thanks for that detailed info. Got that annoying rough idle at cold start.

Its like I'm sort of 'bobbing' up and down in my seat a bit. Its weird. Idle is sort of rough as well.

I talked to the technician directly after he asked me a question regarding the symptom. During my presence he went into the diagnostic routine to check on things, and he followed a thread in the diagnostic that led to a symptom/problem area of the procedure. He found the symptom even though the symptom or the TSB did not apply to my DT based on VIN. Intuitive thinking led him to flash the PCM based on the symptom (He's got 20+ years servicing Mopars.).

You are correct, this particular TSB does address a number of issues and I don't remember if rough idle was actually spelled out in the TSB, but it was on the diagnostic screen.

As an aside I asked the tech. why he applied the flash since my VIN fell outside the range of affected vehicles. I have to paraphrase, but basically he said that sometimes they miss VINs because they were held back on the line, or at the particular assembly line station the PCM (or other modules) didn't get the full download.

All I can tell you is it fixed the issue.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 039706 miles.

 

[COSPILOT]

I have an occasional fluctuation in engine rpm at idle after start that started a few weeks ago. It goes away after about a minute or so, and doesn’t happen all the time. It doesn’t get cold here (Maui). I don’t drive it much, a tank of gas will last me a month easily. This began at about 3/4 tank.
Thoughts?

 

[Dusty1948]

I have an occasional fluctuation in engine rpm at idle after start that started a few weeks ago. It goes away after about a minute or so, and doesn’t happen all the time. It doesn’t get cold here (Maui). I don’t drive it much, a tank of gas will last me a month easily. This began at about 3/4 tank.
Thoughts?

Do you routinely overfill the fuel tank, by that I mean after the nozzle clicks off you continue to push fuel into the tank?

If so, you might have gotten raw fuel into the charcoal canister and getting excessive fuel during the EVAP purge cycle.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 039706 miles.

 

[COSPILOT]

Do you routinely overfill the fuel tank, by that I mean after the nozzle clicks off you continue to push fuel into the tank?

If so, you might have gotten raw fuel into the charcoal canister and getting excessive fuel during the EVAP purge cycle.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 039706 miles.

Admittedly yes. Will it go away?

 

[Dusty1948]

Admittedly yes. Will it go away?

Hard to say. In theory it should, at least on most systems. But over the years I've known some cases where the charcoal canister had to be replaced. Depending on how much raw fuel is in the cannister, it may take many, many purge cycles to draw the fuel out.

I would recommend having the dealer's service folks look at it. It's possible there could be another problem in the EVAP, although it should throw a CEL if that were the case.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 039706 miles.

 

[drsmitty74]

RAM Stalls

Here is a recent video of this ongoing problem - first two days flat our stall, 3rd day an almost stall tach drops from 1100 to 200 before recovering and then it progressivley gets better and better where only a little dip in the tach is noticed. This usuallys happen over a period of couple of weeks, then dissappears for months and months before becoming an issue again. Usaully with the change of seasons. It's like something is in the line, it affects the fuel injectorss for a few days and then either works it's way out or receeds back into the line. Of course each time I get it to the dealer the issue does not present itself and throws no codes. So on and on we go.

I have an appointment with the dealer next Wed. to address this same issue. My 19 Limited has almost 33K miles and it just started doing this. Really, it's been since it started getting cooler at night here in Central IL.

 

[My20BTS]

Hello,

New to this forum, this is a great place to gather information.

I recently purchased a Patriot Blue: Built to Serve RAM 1500 and have experienced the "cold start" flu since purchase. First "start" of the day the engine starts/idles rough then works its way into a smooth idle. Seems to work fine the remainder of the day. The next morning, the rough start/idle repeats itself, every time so far.

Took it to the dealer, told them this only occurs first thing every morning. Of course, when I called them to get a heads up on the progress, they explained that they could not get the problem to occur after the first incident. I again had to repeat what I had told them the day before; it only happens first thing in the morning.

So, they have my BTS one more night. I explained to them what I have been reading on this forum and communicated some of the problems experienced so far in this thread. I am hoping for a better outcome tomorrow.

I will update this post if results are positive.

 

[RamCares]

Hello,

New to this forum, this is a great place to gather information.

I recently purchased a Patriot Blue: Built to Serve RAM 1500 and have experienced the "cold start" flu since purchase. First "start" of the day the engine starts/idles rough then works its way into a smooth idle. Seems to work fine the remainder of the day. The next morning, the rough start/idle repeats itself, every time so far.

Took it to the dealer, told them this only occurs first thing every morning. Of course, when I called them to get a heads up on the progress, they explained that they could not get the problem to occur after the first incident. I again had to repeat what I had told them the day before; it only happens first thing in the morning.

So, they have my BTS one more night. I explained to them what I have been reading on this forum and communicated some of the problems experienced so far in this thread. I am hoping for a better outcome tomorrow.

I will update this post if results are positive.

I apologize for the frustration you have had to endure! Please do not hesitate to follow up with us via private message, as we are more than willing to escalate your situation to a case specialist who can work alongside both you and your dealer while your truck is in service.

Mark
RamCares

 

[My20BTS]

I apologize for the frustration you have had to endure! Please do not hesitate to follow up with us via private message, as we are more than willing to escalate your situation to a case specialist who can work alongside both you and your dealer while your truck is in service.

Mark
RamCares

Okay, thanks.

They did more testing today after talking to "headquarters" and the service guy said he re-flashed the PCM as a possible cure (due to the conversation we had about this site). My BTS will be there one more night to see what happens.

I will keep you in the loop.

Thanks again...

 

[RamCares]

Okay, thanks.

They did more testing today after talking to "headquarters" and the service guy said he re-flashed the PCM as a possible cure (due to the conversation we had about this site). My BTS will be there one more night to see what happens.

I will keep you in the loop.

Thanks again...

Thank you for taking the time to keep me posted, I look forward to your next update!

Mark
RamCares

 

[My20BTS]

Thank you for taking the time to keep me posted, I look forward to your next update!

Mark
RamCares

Received another call from my RAM dealer about the rough first start. He told me that the Re-flash of the PCM did not help the symptom and that FCA told them this issue is now in their sights and are working on the "fix". The BTS Truck was sent home w/o resolution. The service guy stated he will get a hold of me when headquarters finds the cure.

Regards.

 

[Landrover1]

I’ve had the same issue with rough idling after sitting overnight. Never bothered me that much, just annoying. I started reading the forum about this issue to see if others had the same problem. After my last fill up I put a 16 oz bottle of seafoam in the tank. After a couple days of circulating the rough idle on start up has disappeared. It revs up smoothly to about 1200 rpm for a few seconds and then drops back to 800-900, with no hesitation or hiccups. We’ll see if this continues. A side note, I always put in 93 octane and not always the same gas station. I currently have 16k miles on truck.

 

[Landrover1]

It’s been a couple weeks since adding sea foam. Occasionally the engine still surges and has a rough idle when starting in the mornings. Definitely not as often as it used to.Today I got the tank to almost empty and added gumout. I filled the tank with real gas, there is only one station 20 minutes from where I live that still carries gas with no ethanol. We’ll see if this helps even more. I’ve got a service coming up and see if I can get the dealer to flash pcm for TSB 21-009-20

 

[PowerJrod]

It’s been a couple weeks since adding sea foam. Occasionally the engine still surges and has a rough idle when starting in the mornings. Definitely not as often as it used to.Today I got the tank to almost empty and added gumout. I filled the tank with real gas, there is only one station 20 minutes from where I live that still carries gas with no ethanol. We’ll see if this helps even more. I’ve got a service coming up and see if I can get the dealer to flash pcm for TSB 21-009-20

When my Hemi Charger was surging right after start up I ended up putting new Iridium spark plugs in...solved both issue including the slightly rough idling.

 

[HSKR R/T]

It’s been a couple weeks since adding sea foam. Occasionally the engine still surges and has a rough idle when starting in the mornings. Definitely not as often as it used to.Today I got the tank to almost empty and added gumout. I filled the tank with real gas, there is only one station 20 minutes from where I live that still carries gas with no ethanol. We’ll see if this helps even more. I’ve got a service coming up and see if I can get the dealer to flash pcm for TSB 21-009-20

I run mostly ethanol free 91 Oct. My truck just started doing this the last few days. Started before my last fill up, so it's not just a bad tank of gas. Only does it on first cold start of the day. I feel it may be a fueling issue, and was actually thinking either a leaking injector, or anti-drsinback valve allowing fuel to run out of fuel rails while sitting. As I have had similar issues with my 00 Dakota when I don't "prime" the fuel pump at least twice prior to starting it

 

[Dusty1948]

I run mostly ethanol free 91 Oct. My truck just started doing this the last few days. Started before my last fill up, so it's not just a bad tank of gas. Only does it on first cold start of the day. I feel it may be a fueling issue, and was actually thinking either a leaking injector, or anti-drsinback valve allowing fuel to run out of fuel rails while sitting. As I have had similar issues with my 00 Dakota when I don't "prime" the fuel pump at least twice prior to starting it

Do you have a tendency to continue adding fuel until it comes to the top of the fill neck?

My Hemi's have all been glass-like smooth idlers. Around 25K miles I started to perceive a slight roughness in the idle, although no one else could feel it. Then on random mornings, initial start, the engine developed a skip which cleared in about 6-8 seconds. Within about 3,000 miles I got a check engine light which turned out to be a P-441. Took it to the dealer and they found that the Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor/Recirculation Tube Assembly (52029939AC) was defective. Since the replacement it's been fine.

There may even be a TSB for this issue.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 050308 miles.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Do you have a tendency to continue adding fuel until it comes to the top of the fill neck?

My Hemi's have all been glass-like smooth idlers. Around 25K miles I started to perceive a slight roughness in the idle, although no one else could feel it. Then on random mornings, initial start, the engine developed a skip which cleared in about 6-8 seconds. Within about 3,000 miles I got a check engine light which turned out to be a P-441. Took it to the dealer and they found that the Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor/Recirculation Tube Assembly (52029939AC) was defective. Since the replacement it's been fine.

There may even be a TSB for this issue.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 050308 miles.

No, I do not and am a huge proponent of educating people about how that is a bad practice.

 

[Landrover1]

I always assumed it was better to fuel up with the highest octane. After driving 20 k miles I decided to read the owners manual and see if I could find anything about fuel requirements. For 2019 Ram 1500 owners manual there is one small sentence pertaining to fuel requirements on page 249. It states 89 octane recommended, 87 acceptable. Also, on page 187, it talks about using “Top Tier” detergent gasoline and that indiscriminate use of fuel system cleaning agents should be avoided. When I googled “top tier” mostly Shell stations popped up. Wish I had known that from the beginning. Don’t know if that’s played a part in occasional surging in the mornings. We’ll see if there’s any difference when I stick with 89, it’ll save me a few bucks anyways.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I always assumed it was better to fuel up with the highest octane. After driving 20 k miles I decided to read the owners manual and see if I could find anything about fuel requirements. For 2019 Ram 1500 owners manual there is one small sentence pertaining to fuel requirements on page 249. It states 89 octane recommended, 87 acceptable. Also, on page 187, it talks about using “Top Tier” detergent gasoline and that indiscriminate use of fuel system cleaning agents should be avoided. When I googled “top tier” mostly Shell stations popped up. Wish I had known that from the beginning. Don’t know if that’s played a part in occasional surging in the mornings. We’ll see if there’s any difference when I stick with 89, it’ll save me a few bucks anyways.

There are many "top tier" fuels out there. Even Costco is top tier. As for octane, I doubt it has anything to do with the issue. I doubt it's a fuel issue as I've been running mostly the same fuel for months and mine didn't start doing it with fuel.