Rough Downshifting Coming to a Stop

[TBMSport]

I am reminded of a story one of my subcontractors once shared about his ownership experience with Land Rover. I won't go into the details but he had a number of issues with his LR3(go figure, it's British) but he said that the dealership always bent over backwards trying to fix the problems. What kept him as a loyal customer of notoriously unreliable brand was that 1. the vehicle was top of the class luxury and capability(like RAM), and 2. regardless of how many issues there were with the vehicle, he was treated like royalty: the loaner they gave him was a nicer model than what he drove, his rig was detailed after the service, he got free oil changes, etc. If there were problems, they made it right. Years ago I took my old Mercedes to the dealer for a few (expensive) oil changes, but I had a nice lounge to sit in, free latte's and my car was always washed. Exemplary customer service, where you are treated the same if you have a $150,000 car or a $5,000 car like mine.

I will ring the bell that FCA needs to step up their customer service if they want to retain customers or move into the "premium" market. I think about the new Grand Wagoneer coming out... $100k vehicle that will have dealer support that is suited to $25k vehicles. That may all read a bit elitist, but I think it's a fair appraisal of a mediocre dealership network that has definite room for improvement.

Agreed. Sadly, while I am very much committed to buying American brand vehicles (save for a Supra I HAD to have), when it comes to recommending vehicles to my mother and female friends, it's only Honda, Lexus, or Toyota. PERIOD. After my mother got her Lexus, she has rejected the notion of buying any other vehicle. The "kiss my a$$" feature is a very nice feature of foreign (and Lincoln) luxury brands. My local Lexus dealer is so friggin' awesome (and Lexus's are so reliable) that they encouraged us to bring in our other vehicles for service. They offer free emissions inspection sticker cost, wash the car each visit, offer juice and fresh local gourmet bagels and muffins in the lounge AND a brand new RX or NX loaner for ANY service that you can't wait for. WHAAAAAT??? I started taking my Volt (and mom's second vehicle; Honda Element) there before I traded it in on this RAM! And guess what. Basic maintenance service on this RAM is going there. It is truly sad how legacy domestic brand dealerships have not stepped up their game with regards to understanding how to show appreciation to their customers, regardless of their vehicle price. I too wonder how dealerships will be able to satisfy buyers who are cross shopping this Grand Wagoneer against BMW X8, LR's, Escalades, and 'Gators if they can't even take care of high end SRT and RAM owners. Time will tell.

A bit back on thread subject, I think I may have found my/our trucks issues. (I feel like the boy crying wolf saying that now lol). But I decided to once again review my notes and diagnose the problem based on the symptoms. My theory that the truck may have been UNDERfilled with trans fluid led me to pick up some ATF+4 and top off the trans, if necessary. Even though I have an appointment with a second dealership on Tuesday, I'm going on a trip this weekend and just didn't want the frustration of the clunking, delayed downshifts, lurching, etc. Not to mention a more recent event where the trans makes this unsettling intermittent clunk the moment I start it up. As if it forgot to position itself before I shut her down. Even though the techs said the diag system came back that the fluid level was ok, the fact that they didn't physically confirm it was a bit frustration. After letting the truck cool down from a quick around-the block drive, I used the air ride feature to raise the truck to OFF ROAD 2 and I could slide me and my creeper underneath (Boy it was nice for a change to be under a brand new clean vehicle without 20+ yrs/400k miles of grime and dirt like my project truck '99 Silverado). Getting all my tools and stuff ready to squeeze fluid into it, I loosened the bolt and SPLOOSH. No, I didn't have it running, like it should as I was working alone and didn't want/need the exhaust pipes roasting me or the air ride deciding to lower itself. Trans fluid came GUSHING out so fast I had to shove the bolt back in immediately. Looked like about a half cup. Hmmm.

So I took it for a drive to do some errands and guess what? No shuddering when coming to a stop. At all. Not even a little. The start-stop restart got smoother at each stop light. Mashing the throttle while rolling gave me instant downshifts (not the rev up, wait, wait some more, still waiting, NOW downshift). I let it sit a few hours then went into the city for a few hours with a friend expecting the old symptoms to come back. NOPE. Off the line throttle was getting even better. I will take it out for a ride later today to make sure it's not going to trigger a low fluid code or return to its old shenanigans. But I think this may have been the simple "fix", especially after I came across this: Symptoms of excessive-transmission-fluid (Main takeaway being "when you have too much transmission fluid, the pressure builds within the transmission. This increased pressure allows air to contaminate the fluid. When mixed with air, the fluid then becomes frothy, which then increases the pressure even more. ")

A fix that could have been easily determined and resolved with a friggin' dipstick or techs who know how to do more than just follow a TSB. Sadly, many are and will end up hating their truck and doing damage for tens of thousands of miles bc of the service interval due to such a simple matter.

 

[My1stHemi]

Great info there!

The company I work for recently bought a gmc 2500 that was a few quarts low on tranny fluid. Factory filled on a Friday.

 

[My1stHemi]

I took my truck back to have the brake light installed this morning. Dealer confirmed that they checked the trans fluid condition and level during the last inspection. According to the invoice, they also plugged in a “black box” on a trial drive/run when diagnosing the tranny. No faults found.

 

[TBMSport]

I took my truck back to have the brake light installed this morning. Dealer confirmed that they checked the trans fluid condition and level during the last inspection. According to the invoice, they also plugged in a “black box” on a trial drive/run when diagnosing the tranny. No faults found.

Just curious. Did they PHYSICALLY check the fluid or just go off the sensors. Sensors will only tell you if you're low, not OVER full.

 

[My1stHemi]

I pressed them on that and the service advisor said they checked the actual fluid level. My trust level is low right now in this relationship, but I did see on the invoice (no charge) that they were billing FCA for a quart of ATF (68218925AB).

 

[Phoeuth]

My truck is also having the same issue of hard downshifting when coming to a stop. If I don’t come to a complete stop and have to get back on the gas then I would get the clunk noise. Took it to the dealership three times and of course they can’t reproduce the issue but they would do the TSB updates for me. Open up a case with RamCare and took it in for a fourth time to get the TSB 18-010-20 REV A. I told the shop manager to take my truck home and see if he can reproduce the issue. I got a call the next day and he was able to reproduce the issue but he said it is normal and my PCM is up to date. I told him the last update I got back in March was for 18-010-20 and now there is a REV A that came out in August. He said the REV A is the same file so there is nothing new. Just got off the phone with RamCare and they are closing my case since the dealership said that this is normal and I won’t go out of my way to take it to another dealership to have it look at.

 

[Lil'Mike]

My truck is also having the same issue of hard downshifting when coming to a stop. If I don’t come to a complete stop and have to get back on the gas then I would get the clunk noise. Took it to the dealership three times and of course they can’t reproduce the issue but they would do the TSB updates for me. Open up a case with RamCare and took it in for a fourth time to get the TSB 18-010-20 REV A. I told the shop manager to take my truck home and see if he can reproduce the issue. I got a call the next day and he was able to reproduce the issue but he said it is normal and my PCM is up to date. I told him the last update I got back in March was for 18-010-20 and now there is a REV A that came out in August. He said the REV A is the same file so there is nothing new. Just got off the phone with RamCare and they are closing my case since the dealership said that this is normal and I won’t go out of my way to take it to another dealership to have it look at.

I’m sorry to hear that, your experience sounds very sounds familiar. Submit a claim with NCDS to see if they can help. That’s the next step in the process advertised on FCA’s site.

Dealer >> FCA Customer Care >> NCDS

Lemon Law, Warranty and Repair Help | Mopar®

Get lemon law, warranty and repair assistance for your Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep®, Ram and FIAT®. We will work with you directly to resolve your problem.

www.mopar.com

 

[Phoeuth]

I’m sorry to hear that, your experience sounds very sounds familiar. Submit a claim with NCDS to see if they can help. That’s the next step in the process advertised on FCA’s site.

Dealer >> FCA Customer Care >> NCDS

Lemon Law, Warranty and Repair Help | Mopar®

Get lemon law, warranty and repair assistance for your Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep®, Ram and FIAT®. We will work with you directly to resolve your problem.

www.mopar.com

I love my truck but if they tell me that it’s normal because they can’t fix the issue then I will probably try to get it lemon.

 

[My1stHemi]

Phoeuth,
Maybe you can use this info from my invoice when talking with the service rep? "We're in this together!"

 

[TBMSport]

My truck is also having the same issue of hard downshifting when coming to a stop. If I don’t come to a complete stop and have to get back on the gas then I would get the clunk noise. Took it to the dealership three times and of course they can’t reproduce the issue but they would do the TSB updates for me. Open up a case with RamCare and took it in for a fourth time to get the TSB 18-010-20 REV A. I told the shop manager to take my truck home and see if he can reproduce the issue. I got a call the next day and he was able to reproduce the issue but he said it is normal and my PCM is up to date. I told him the last update I got back in March was for 18-010-20 and now there is a REV A that came out in August. He said the REV A is the same file so there is nothing new. Just got off the phone with RamCare and they are closing my case since the dealership said that this is normal and I won’t go out of my way to take it to another dealership to have it look at.

Find another dealership. Why the hell would ANY program be an update if it's the exact same file?? I got both updates from my dealer and a 2nd local dealer was willing to run it again just to make sure it took. They are just lazy. Also keep in mind, many dealerships can't or don't want to file warranty claims bc they are already in trouble with the OEM/Regional because of low sales, fraudulent/rejected warranty claims (parts and/or service). So plain and simple, if they don't want to perform a legitimate warranty TSB, don't use them for anything.

 

[Phoeuth]

Phoeuth,
Maybe you can use this info from my invoice when talking with the service rep? "We're in this together!"


View attachment 71866

This is my invoice. Basically they told me there is nothing they can do and there is no fix for it.

 

[Phoeuth]

Find another dealership. Why the hell would ANY program be an update if it's the exact same file?? I got both updates from my dealer and a 2nd local dealer was willing to run it again just to make sure it took. They are just lazy. Also keep in mind, many dealerships can't or don't want to file warranty claims bc they are already in trouble with the OEM/Regional because of low sales, fraudulent/rejected warranty claims (parts and/or service). So plain and simple, if they don't want to perform a legitimate warranty TSB, don't use them for anything.

I asked the same question. Took it to another dealership and they told me that's just how the 8 speed transmission work and there is no fix for it.

 

[My1stHemi]

I’d try another dealer, that’s not right.
This is a very common transmission used in many platforms where this behavior is not acceptable or normal. Bentley, BMW, Rolls Royce and many more companies wouldn’t sell cars that had this bump trait.
ZF 8HP Series Transmission Wikipedia

 

[My1stHemi]

Alright. Got my truck into the dealer by 8am and it had a valvebody transplant and was out of surgery by 2:30pm. First impressions are that this may have solved the problem but I will give it more time and I will need to drive it in higher temps to replicate worst case scenario.

Fingers crossed.

 

[2019bighorn_crew]

Alright. Got my truck into the dealer by 8am and it had a valvebody transplant and was out of surgery by 2:30pm. First impressions are that this may have solved the problem but I will give it more time and I will need to drive it in higher temps to replicate worst case scenario.

Fingers crossed.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one having this issue. I've been to two different dealerships now,the first one felt the bump between downshifts and updated tcm and didn't help. Second one updated PCM still no help. When I brought it back to road test with the guy he told kind of laughed and said he didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. He said all he can do is a quick learn and see if that helps

I'm not sure what to do I spent over $50000 on a truck and now they don't want to fix this issue that drives me nuts everyone I drive it. If they can't fix this I'm going to have to pursue lemoning this truck before I even have the first oil change done. Very disappointing

 

[brian42]

I'm in the same boat but it only clunks sometimes. Dealership already did the TCM flash which tamed most of the abruptness but not the underlying issue.

I developed a coastdown issue (truck would stay in 3rd until I come to a complete stop for several seconds) so took it back in. They could not reproduce it so I took them for a drive and they agreed that there was an issue.

Left it with their tranny specialist that could find no issue (no codes, no unusual diagnostics, and good fluid level). Checking fluid level is not as easy as the old dipstick method. From what I understand it's a fairly involved process of draining, getting it up to temp, then topping off all within a specific temp range. I miss being able to check it in my driveway. So much easier.

In the end I got the truck back with the same "that's what this transmission does and FCA says it's normal". Apparently the Service Manager also has a DT as has the same issue.

Found another post on here where someone recommended resetting the TPS. Thought it was a longshot but, what the heck, it's free. I did that and 90% of my problem went away.

For anyone that's interested this is from another thread (https://5thgenrams.com/community/threads/extreme-throttle-delay-at-stops.24462/#post-354428):

Try this, it did wonders for my truck:
RESET TPS & ACCELERATOR PEDAL
1-Foot OFF of the brake and accelerator pedal
2-Press the START BUTTON until the RUN position is achieved but DO NOT start the vehicle. (If you do, turn off, open door and let everything reset before restarting).
3-Wait until all the instrument panels idiot/cycle lights go OUT (Check Engine light may stay on)
4-Slowly press the accelerator pedal all the way to the floor and then slowly let off. I think a steady and consistent motion is best.
5-Press START BUTTON again to turn everything off. (Open Door?) Start the truck as normal. That should recalibrate the pedal so that you are using its full range of motion in synch with the throttle body's opening.

 

[Rototerrier]

If you guys are going to do the Lemon law thing, check with your state. Most require 3 attempts and then notifying the Mfg that you are requesting a final attempt. Most folks think it's 3 attempts and done...but it's actually 4.

Usually that 4th and final attempt gets them going. Just keep taking it in and giving them a stab at it and saving those service receipts. It might require making that request for the final and 4th attempt to really get their attention. At that point you might end up with a couple scenarios.

1) They just outright offer to lemon/buy the truck back on the spot without any further attempts to repair.
2) They go for the 4th attempt, fail and play nice and offer to buy it back.
3) They go for the 4th attempt and fail and continue to play hardball and force you to then have to send the final letter requesting a buy back. From here they will either do it or force you into arbitration. Just more wasted time, but no big deal since you will have all the documentation. But you could still lose if the arbitrator sides with RAM and doesn't consider your issue valid. But I don't see this happening as you've already indicated that someone felt it...but that would need to be documented so you can prove it.

It's easy to say you'll lemon the truck, but it takes a lot of time and patience. I've done it several times and it does take a bit of work. If you are a normal 9-5er with limited time off, they count on you not having the time to actually follow thru. And with Covid causing delayed service times, it's making it even harder to do. Takes a long time to stack up 3 service visits now days.

Most folks are forced to live with the issues since they can't risk losing their job over such things. If you only have a week or less off per year....clearly you can't be wasting too much time on lemon lawing your truck and that's where they have most folks by the cahunas.

 

[TBMSport]

If you guys are going to do the Lemon law thing, check with your state. Most require 3 attempts and then notifying the Mfg that you are requesting a final attempt. Most folks think it's 3 attempts and done...but it's actually 4.

Usually that 4th and final attempt gets them going. Just keep taking it in and giving them a stab at it and saving those service receipts. It might require making that request for the final and 4th attempt to really get their attention. At that point you might end up with a couple scenarios.

1) They just outright offer to lemon/buy the truck back on the spot without any further attempts to repair.
2) They go for the 4th attempt, fail and play nice and offer to buy it back.
3) They go for the 4th attempt and fail and continue to play hardball and force you to then have to send the final letter requesting a buy back. From here they will either do it or force you into arbitration. Just more wasted time, but no big deal since you will have all the documentation. But you could still lose if the arbitrator sides with RAM and doesn't consider your issue valid. But I don't see this happening as you've already indicated that someone felt it...but that would need to be documented so you can prove it.

It's easy to say you'll lemon the truck, but it takes a lot of time and patience. I've done it several times and it does take a bit of work. If you are a normal 9-5er with limited time off, they count on you not having the time to actually follow thru. And with Covid causing delayed service times, it's making it even harder to do. Takes a long time to stack up 3 service visits now days.

Most folks are forced to live with the issues since they can't risk losing their job over such things. If you only have a week or less off per year....clearly you can't be wasting too much time on lemon lawing your truck and that's where they have most folks by the cahunas.

Also check with a your state attorney general and an lemon law attorney. I have had to lemon law to GM vehicles (still not as bad as this experience with my RAM). In the state of PA, the manufacturer is responsible for the your attorney fees and attorneys will work on contingency. If they think you have a case, they'll take it and do all the work. If they don't think you have a case, they won't take it. But lemon law thresholds are pretty cut and dry and the biggest issue is what will be the offer.

 

[budevbudev]

Hi CodeTHR33,

Sorry to hear of the trouble you are experiencing with your truck! I have gone ahead and attached the TSB in reference here. To ensure this TSB applies, we would like to get you back into the dealer to have a qualified technician review the details of the TSB and specifics of your vehicle. Once reviewed, the technician can then perform the repair procedure that best matches the symptoms and diagnosis of your vehicle.

If you’d like an additional layer of assistance as you work with your dealer, please do not hesitate to send us a PM. We’d be happy to help.

Mark
Ram Social Care Specialist

View attachment 34408

Hey Mark,
does this bulletin apply to 2019 1500 Rebel with v6 etorque 4x4? Im having the same issues with mine and also I noticed oil leak from the transfer case. Scheduled an appointment with the local dealer in Naples FL on Jan 2nd 2021 and was wondering if I can show them the bulletin.
Thank you
Emil

 

[RamCares]

Hey Mark,
does this bulletin apply to 2019 1500 Rebel with v6 etorque 4x4? Im having the same issues with mine and also I noticed oil leak from the transfer case. Scheduled an appointment with the local dealer in Naples FL on Jan 2nd 2021 and was wondering if I can show them the bulletin.
Thank you
Emil

Hi Emil, this TSB is applicable to all 2019 Rm 1500 models. We would also be happy to look into this further for you and provide any TSB's that are directly associated to your vehicle build. Please feel free to send us a private message for additional support during your dealer visit if needed!

Kathryn
RamCares