REV vs Ramcharger - who would buy a REV?

[HSKR R/T]

Maybe there is some confusion on your end or I'm not explaining it very well. Engine output will not change...increase or decrease. It's already predetermined.

Power will always come from the battery status that drives the motors in the front and back. Engine has no imput on how much power its putting out of the truck. Any engine power will just go right to the battery. Battery is the one that puts out what it needs. That is the information that I have read.


2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

I dont think you fully understand how the system works. Granted I dont either, but I know it's not going to be constant low los on the ICE all the time. And when accelerating hard, or towing heavy up hills, it will use the ICE engine to supplement the batteries

 

[mikeru82]

I dont think you fully understand how the system works. Granted I dont either, but I know it's not going to be constant low los on the ICE all the time. And when accelerating hard, or towing heavy up hills, it will use the ICE engine to supplement the batteries

Exactly. One detail Ram has released about it is that the generator will be able to apply extra power directly to the motors. The engine would have to throttle up under those conditions.

 

[arod412]

I dont think you fully understand how the system works. Granted I dont either, but I know it's not going to be constant low los on the ICE all the time. And when accelerating hard, or towing heavy up hills, it will use the ICE engine to supplement the batteries

Agree that we need to figure out the entire system. I'm just going by the website that it will have a 130-kilowatt generator that comes from the engine. It converts that mechanical engine power to electric power to the battery.

How the power is transferred (either full 130kw or less) and battery status parameters on when it kicks in...beats me. Whatever the load may be, but we know that's the max output will be.



2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

 

[Darksteel165]

And to be clear, the generator can provide additional power directly to the motors.

Exactly. One detail Ram has released about it is that the generator will be able to apply extra power directly to the motors. The engine would have to throttle up under those conditions.

Where did you see that?
What I saw said the ICE will NEVER be able to power the motors directly and would only charge the battery.

 

[arod412]

Where did you see that?
What I saw said the ICE will NEVER be able to power the motors directly and would only charge the battery.

Correct me if I'm wrong...directly from ram's site

"The generator can also increase the power to the motor and gearbox when serious power is needed."

So it's not direct...it's more like taking generator power to give it a little extra juice. I can imagine that there is a limit to how long it can be like that...because that can drain both battery and engine at the same time.

But again...need to figure out how they both work together.

2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

 

[mikeru82]

Where did you see that?
What I saw said the ICE will NEVER be able to power the motors directly and would only charge the battery.

Electric power to the motors, not mechanical power. And I said the generator will send that power, not the engine.

Correct me if I'm wrong...directly from ram's site

"The generator can also increase the power to the motor and gearbox when serious power is needed."

So it's not direct...it's more like taking generator power to give it a little extra juice. I can imagine that there is a limit to how long it can be like that...because that can drain both battery and engine at the same time.

But again...need to figure out how they both work together.

2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

Yes, that's where I read that.

 

[CUOFFRD]

A lot of what you guys are going back and forth on was covered in the TFL video with the Ramcharger engineer explaining how it worked.

Both the generator and battery connect to a BUS where the motors draw electricity from. The motors do not know or care where the power comes from, it just gets it from the BUS.

They are trying to make the engine act like a conventional ICE where it will rev up and down to simulate regular driving based on throttle input. They want to try and avoid high rpm, low speed situations if possible.

 

[theblet]

I still don’t believe it’s 130kw.

 

[Rick3478]

I still don’t believe it’s 130kw.

Why is that hard to believe? It's possible their specs are optimistic, but on the other hand it's like 218 cubic inches, and in this application doesn't have to change speed rapidly, so it can be tuned for efficiency rather than response. Or did you think it should be more?

I thought the last part of Ram's blurb about "more power" was oddly worded. There is an opportunity, electrically, to couple the phase windings of the alternator and motor directly together, which would allow the ICE to couple its full power to the wheels without having rectifiers, batteries, and motor phase synthesizer circuits between. It's unclear whether they actually do that, but they could.

 

[StuartV]

Maybe there is some confusion on your end or I'm not explaining it very well. Engine output will not change...increase or decrease. It's already predetermined.

Power will always come from the battery status that drives the motors in the front and back. Engine has no imput on how much power its putting out of the truck. Any engine power will just go right to the battery. Battery is the one that puts out what it needs. That is the information that I have read.

It has been published in a couple of places (at least) that the engine can directly power the EDMs under some conditions. So, no, the power does not always come from the "battery status" (whatever that means).

The Ramcharger engineer also said in the TFL interview that the Ramcharger will have a mode where it preserves the battery and only uses the ICE for driving.

So, ICE output surely does directly correlate to how much power is "putting out of the truck" - at least in some conditions.

Where did you see that?
What I saw said the ICE will NEVER be able to power the motors directly and would only charge the battery.

See above. In some conditions, the ICE definitely can power the motors directly.

 

[theblet]

Why is that hard to believe? It's possible their specs are optimistic, but on the other hand it's like 218 cubic inches, and in this application doesn't have to change speed rapidly, so it can be tuned for efficiency rather than response. Or did you think it should be more?

I thought the last part of Ram's blurb about "more power" was oddly worded. There is an opportunity, electrically, to couple the phase windings of the alternator and motor directly together, which would allow the ICE to couple its full power to the wheels without having rectifiers, batteries, and motor phase synthesizer circuits between. It's unclear whether they actually do that, but they could.

Because I know what a 130kw generator looks like in real life. It’s huge and takes a big engine to spin it. Guess I’m just being skeptical

 

[6of36]

Just think of it like a whole house generator. When the battery gets below a certain level, the gas engine starts up to run the generator. The engine will run at a steady RPM, to turn the generator at optimum power. It should be switchable, to only run on battery, for short trips, when you can charge nightly, and use no gasoline, or to turn on the engine as necessary, for longer trips. The wheels are only turned by electric motors, and the engine only runs the generator.

 

[SpeedyV]

It has been published in a couple of places (at least) that the engine can directly power the EDMs under some conditions. So, no, the power does not always come from the "battery status" (whatever that means).

The Ramcharger engineer also said in the TFL interview that the Ramcharger will have a mode where it preserves the battery and only uses the ICE for driving.

I know you understand the point I’ll make here, and it is a nuance, but I think it would be clearer if you argued that there are certain conditions where the motors draw their power exclusively from the GENERATOR, as opposed to exclusively from batteries or a combination thereof. Yes, of course the ICE powers the generator, and thus indirectly powers the motors, but let’s not confuse anyone into thinking this rig can run without electric motors!

 

[Rick3478]

Because I know what a 130kw generator looks like in real life. It’s huge and takes a big engine to spin it. Guess I’m just being skeptical

I wonder if you're limiting your thinking to 60Hz? If so, it takes a certain amount of steel and copper to be efficient at low frequency. Those amounts become smaller if you go multi-pole at higher frequency. Aircraft used 400 Hz from way back for exactly those reasons. I don't know how many poles the REV is using, but I bet it's more than two.

 

[theblet]

I wonder if you're limiting your thinking to 60Hz? If so, it takes a certain amount of steel and copper to be efficient at low frequency. Those amounts become smaller if you go multi-pole at higher frequency. Aircraft used 400 Hz from way back for exactly those reasons. I don't know how many poles the REV is using, but I bet it's more than two.

Yes basing off of 60hz, the power units I’m familiar with. Good point. I wonder what the ramcharger has

 

[Trooper4]

The 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger delivers innovative performance with a liquid-cooled 92 kWh battery pack and is paired with a 3.6-liter V-6 engine on-board 130 kW generator, sending power to a 250-kW front and 238-kW rear EDM. The EDMs combine the motor, gearbox and inverter along with all-wheel-drive capability. I would speculate that when under light load and easy cruising that only one EDM is used, thus reducing battery draw. However under heavy load the draw would out pace the generator I would think. But I guess the brains behind it have that under control.
Will just have wait and see how it all shakes out.

 

[barrak]

Just bought a HEMI Longhorn. Love my HEMI Longhorn. I'll drive it till it dies. Don't need more power... Don't want less roar.

When the inevitable happens and reasonable V8 choices are depleted, then I will probably look very favorably to the RAMCharger or something similar; 1) Plug-in, 2) Pure EV daily driving, and 3) A capable and well behaved on-board generator with large enough gas tank to sustain long trips and/or heavy hauls.

Even though it is a trickle-down technology from trains and busses, I love the daring of RAMCharger's engineers for introducing this "backward" hybrid setup to the half-tons market. A capable generator working at optimum rpm, no stressful variable mechanical loading, no driveshaft, no transmission, no differentials, generous pure EV range, and best of all; eight years down the road, battery pack replacement will probably cost only half as much, compared to a pure EV truck with a similar overall range (92 kW-hr vs. the promised 170-200 kW-hr /470-500 miles Tesla Cybertruck).

 

[Darksteel165]

Just bought a HEMI Longhorn. Love my HEMI Longhorn. I'll drive it till it dies. Don't need more power... Don't want less roar.

When the inevitable happens and reasonable V8 choices are depleted, then I will probably look very favorably to the RAMCharger or something similar; 1) Plug-in, 2) Pure EV daily driving, and 3) A capable and well behaved on-board generator with large enough gas tank to sustain long trips and/or heavy hauls.

Even though it is a trickle-down technology from trains and busses, I love the daring of RAMCharger's engineers for introducing this "backward" hybrid setup to the half-tons market. A capable generator working at optimum rpm, no stressful variable mechanical loading, no driveshaft, no transmission, no differentials, generous pure EV range, and best of all; eight years down the road, battery pack replacement will probably cost only half as much, compared to a pure EV truck with a similar overall range (92 kW-hr vs. the promised 170-200 kW-hr /470-500 miles Tesla Cybertruck).

The Cybertruck gets nowhere near 470-500 miles of range, it was revised. The regular 2 motor one gets 340. I think it's a very poor thing to compare to.
I would guess the battery tech will of changed in 8 years from now to some other compound making the old one obsolete to allow for faster charging times, that is assuming EV's don't die off from stillbirth.

Oddly enough v8s are super easy to find, it's just getting harder to find them in a pre-built truck that you want.
I wonder if frames will start getting sold and then assembled after sales to whatever engine you want, just like getting a crate engine, or a pickup that doesn't come with a bed from the factory.
I know very unlikely to happen, but could be nice to buy a frame of a car\truck for cheap and just slap the goods inside (all new parts).
As it is now Ram is selling 1500s with MSRPs well over 90k...

 

[barrak]

The Cybertruck gets nowhere near 470-500 miles of range, it was revised. The regular 2 motor one gets 340. I think it's a very poor thing to compare to.
I would guess the battery tech will of changed in 8 years from now to some other compound making the old one obsolete to allow for faster charging times, that is assuming EV's don't die off from stillbirth.

Oddly enough v8s are super easy to find, it's just getting harder to find them in a pre-built truck that you want.
I wonder if frames will start getting sold and then assembled after sales to whatever engine you want, just like getting a crate engine, or a pickup that doesn't come with a bed from the factory.
I know very unlikely to happen, but could be nice to buy a frame of a car\truck for cheap and just slap the goods inside (all new parts).
As it is now Ram is selling 1500s with MSRPs well over 90k...

Yeah... I think Tesla are not even mentioning the Range Extender battery pack anymore.

Current batteries are too bulky and heavy to get to 500+ miles range on their own. I also think any newer, lighter, and faster-charging batteries will come (if they ever materialize) at a premium to recoup R&D expenses. And that's assuming they wont require exotic and rare raw materials.

Modular trucks? I'm glad it is still an option for enthusiasts and overland rig builders. To me this idea always brings to memory Tuco in the gun shop scene. I'll need a benefactor to go that route, willing or otherwise.

 

[theblet]

The Cybertruck gets nowhere near 470-500 miles of range, it was revised. The regular 2 motor one gets 340. I think it's a very poor thing to compare to.
I would guess the battery tech will of changed in 8 years from now to some other compound making the old one obsolete to allow for faster charging times, that is assuming EV's don't die off from stillbirth.

Oddly enough v8s are super easy to find, it's just getting harder to find them in a pre-built truck that you want.
I wonder if frames will start getting sold and then assembled after sales to whatever engine you want, just like getting a crate engine, or a pickup that doesn't come with a bed from the factory.
I know very unlikely to happen, but could be nice to buy a frame of a car\truck for cheap and just slap the goods inside (all new parts).
As it is now Ram is selling 1500s with MSRPs well over 90k...

Hopefully things will change when we get a new administration, and people can just buy the vehicle they want. It’s already pretty evident that trying force people into EVs isn’t working. Ford lost like 4 billion last year and car manufacturers are begging the White House to pull back the regulations they’ve but in place.