REV vs Ramcharger - who would buy a REV?

[Rick3478]

If you never plug it in, you won't get 690 miles range.

You might, but only once.

 

[Darksteel165]

You might, but only once.

Once?
Dealerships don't even give you a full tank of gas anymore, you thinking your getting a full charge and tank on a drive away?
I bet it will have 25% EV charge and no fuel ever added LOL

 

[HSKR R/T]

Once?
Dealerships don't even give you a full tank of gas anymore, you thinking your getting a full charge and tank on a drive away?
I bet it will have 25% EV charge and no fuel ever added LOL

Might need to either find a better dealer or negotiate a little better if you aren't getting a full tank of gas with a new car purchase

 

[mikeru82]

Might need to either find a better dealer or negotiate a little better if you aren't getting a full tank of gas with a new car purchase

Agreed! Dealerships in my area are still filling the tanks when you buy a vehicle. I got a full tank of gas when I bought my new Audi three months ago. I got a full tank of gas (36 gallons) when I bought a used work truck earlier this week.

 

[PurpleRT]

Might need to either find a better dealer or negotiate a little better if you aren't getting a full tank of gas with a new car purchase

This

Now if buying used well you get whats in the tank unless say no deal bet they’ll find a company credit card then.

Gotta question the deal if they’re just willing to fill the tank up on a used vehicle haha you might of gotten hosed.


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[Darksteel165]

Might need to either find a better dealer or negotiate a little better if you aren't getting a full tank of gas with a new car purchase

I bought my truck from Mark Dodge.
Only reason they went and filled it up was they felt bad because they forgot to pick me up and weren't answering the phones and I had to walk a mile or 2 there from the hotel to get there.

How is a dealership even going to charge an EV if they sell it?
I guess chargers yet to be installed at all the dealerships...

Ford lost a law suit requiring their dealerships in Illinois to install EV chargers

Illinois Ford dealers win ruling against automaker’s EV certification program requiring pricey fast chargers

A group of 26 Illinois Ford dealers won a legal battle last week that could short-circuit the automaker’s national EV certification program, challenging required fast charger installation and…

www.chicagotribune.com

I don't think it's going to be a very common thing.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I bought my truck from Mark Dodge.
Only reason they went and filled it up was they felt bad because they forgot to pick me up and weren't answering the phones and I had to walk a mile or 2 there from the hotel to get there.

How is a dealership even going to charge an EV if they sell it?
I guess chargers yet to be installed at all the dealerships...

Ford lost a law suit requiring their dealerships in Illinois to install EV chargers

Illinois Ford dealers win ruling against automaker’s EV certification program requiring pricey fast chargers

A group of 26 Illinois Ford dealers won a legal battle last week that could short-circuit the automaker’s national EV certification program, challenging required fast charger installation and…

www.chicagotribune.com

I don't think it's going to be a very common thing.

Most dealers around me, that sell any type of EV or plug in hybrid, have installed fast chargers. I have done remodels on four different dealers in the last two years that included EV charging stations, and two brand new ones that also had EV charging stations. Seems like your local dealers need to get their act together.

As far as Mark Dodge and filling your tank, once again, if you failed to negotiate that as part of the deal, initially, that's in you and a buyer.

 

[habu987]

I find the debate over whether the Ramcharger is a PHEV or EV to be pretty funny. It's a PHEV by all commonly accepted definitions of a PHEV, including that of the US Department of Energy and the EPA.

Ram calling it an EV doesn't make it any more of one than did the dude in my old neighborhood putting a Mercedes hood emblem on his ratty mid-90s Civic make it a Mercedes.

ETA: Absolutely nothing wrong with it being a PHEV, I just find Ram's insistence, and that of the really strident pro-EV crowd, that it's an EV to be humorous.

 

[StuartV]

Not sure which way I will go when time to trade in the eco diesel for some kind of electric truck probably plug in hybrid as we have a massive solar array but very few public chargers within 300 miles. Just got a plug in hybrid Santa Fe but it only has 35 mile range on battery alone and on the highway it never seems to keep up with the charging unless there is a setting I haven't found yet to just let it charge and not use up battery on hills etc.

I fully expect the Ramcharger to draw from the battery in any high load situation. Accelerating up a steep hill. Accelerating while pulling a heavy load. Maybe even just going full throttle on flat ground with an unloaded truck.

But, I also expect there will be a setting where, even though it does that, it only draws the battery down during that high load period and then charges it right back up. The net effect being that the battery is never drawn down more than a very few percent.

I mean, there is no way you're getting from 0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds by only using electricty from a 130kW (174HP) generator...

But, if your Santa Fe is experiencing a net draw on the battery over an extended period of highway driving, I wonder if that is because, either, the onboard generator just isn't beefy enough, or, the car is designed to - by default - use the battery in a situation like that until the battery drops to a low threshold level, and then it will shift to running purely on the ICE alone, and not draw from the battery at all.

If you drive on the highway long enough, will the battery level drop below 20%? What about below 10%? While still having gas in the gas tank, of course.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I fully expect the Ramcharger to draw from the battery in any high load situation. Accelerating up a steep hill. Accelerating while pulling a heavy load. Maybe even just going full throttle on flat ground with an unloaded truck.

But, I also expect there will be a setting where, even though it does that, it only draws the battery down during that high load period and then charges it right back up. The net effect being that the battery is never drawn down more than a very few percent.

I mean, there is no way you're getting from 0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds by only using electricty from a 130kW (174HP) generator...

But, if your Santa Fe is experiencing a net draw on the battery over an extended period of highway driving, I wonder if that is because, either, the onboard generator just isn't beefy enough, or, the car is designed to - by default - use the battery in a situation like that until the battery drops to a low threshold level, and then it will shift to running purely on the ICE alone, and not draw from the battery at all.

If you drive on the highway long enough, will the battery level drop below 20%? What about below 10%? While still having gas in the gas tank, of course.

The Santa Fe isn't designed to use the ICE to charge the battery.

 

[Rick3478]

Once?
Dealerships don't even give you a full tank of gas anymore, you thinking your getting a full charge and tank on a drive away?
I bet it will have 25% EV charge and no fuel ever added LOL

AFAIK you still get a full tank around here, don't know about the charge. Local RAM dealer also has a car wash you can run through for free during the warranty period, although it's one of the rag beaters.

 

[StuartV]

I just think it's hilarious anyone ever thought they bought a new vehicle, it came with a full tank of fuel, AND THAT FUEL WAS FREE.

LOLOLOL!!!!

 

[theblet]

I fully expect the Ramcharger to draw from the battery in any high load situation. Accelerating up a steep hill. Accelerating while pulling a heavy load. Maybe even just going full throttle on flat ground with an unloaded truck.

But, I also expect there will be a setting where, even though it does that, it only draws the battery down during that high load period and then charges it right back up. The net effect being that the battery is never drawn down more than a very few percent.

I mean, there is no way you're getting from 0 to 60 in 4.4 seconds by only using electricty from a 130kW (174HP) generator...

But, if your Santa Fe is experiencing a net draw on the battery over an extended period of highway driving, I wonder if that is because, either, the onboard generator just isn't beefy enough, or, the car is designed to - by default - use the battery in a situation like that until the battery drops to a low threshold level, and then it will shift to running purely on the ICE alone, and not draw from the battery at all.

If you drive on the highway long enough, will the battery level drop below 20%? What about below 10%? While still having gas in the gas tank, of course.

It has to draw from the batteries in every situation doesn’t it?

 

[StuartV]

It has to draw from the batteries in every situation doesn’t it?

I have read/seen explicit statements that the ICE/generator can directly power the EDMs under some conditions.

In my mind, that translates as "no".

Also, in the interview with the Ramcharger lead engineer, he said it would have a mode where it uses no battery while you're driving. The idea is that, apparently, in Europe they have (or, by legislation, WILL have) ICE-free zones in some places. So, the Ramcharger will let you drive there on gas, conserving your battery for when you get to that zone, then you can switch to electric-only, so that you can still drive your Ramcharger in that ICE-free zone.

 

[theblet]

I have read/seen explicit statements that the ICE/generator can directly power the EDMs under some conditions.

In my mind, that translates as "no".

Also, in the interview with the Ramcharger lead engineer, he said it would have a mode where it uses no battery while you're driving. The idea is that, apparently, in Europe they have (or, by legislation, WILL have) ICE-free zones in some places. So, the Ramcharger will let you drive there on gas, conserving your battery for when you get to that zone, then you can switch to electric-only, so that you can still drive your Ramcharger in that ICE-free zone.

Oh ok that’s possible then.

ICE free zones? If that’s not govt overreach I dont know what is. How ludicrous

 

[Trooper4]

Define "worth it".

690 miles range and 4.4 second 0-to-60 is "worth" something to me - even if I never plug it in.

The overall miles is a good selling point, but the 0-60, MEHHH. All that acceleration does is eat up tires.

 

[Trooper4]

I have read/seen explicit statements that the ICE/generator can directly power the EDMs under some conditions.

In my mind, that translates as "no".

Also, in the interview with the Ramcharger lead engineer, he said it would have a mode where it uses no battery while you're driving. The idea is that, apparently, in Europe they have (or, by legislation, WILL have) ICE-free zones in some places. So, the Ramcharger will let you drive there on gas, conserving your battery for when you get to that zone, then you can switch to electric-only, so that you can still drive your Ramcharger in that ICE-free zone.

And, if it can't drive on generator to electric motor, th

Yep...



^ this.

They said the Ramcharge ICE drives a 130kW generator. 130kW is 174 HP.

As long as you are driving where it takes less than 174 HP to do what you're doing, then the rest is (or can be) charging the battery. And 174 HP is a fair bit of motivation...

And a quick Google search suggests that it probably takes 50 HP or less for our trucks to maintain highway speed on flat ground. So, it seems like it's not much of a stretch to believe that the onboard generator can let you drive around while also keeping the battery topped up. At least, as long as you are not continually drag racing up hill.

HP of the ICE is irrelevant in this application, as it does nothing more than run a generator. The generator needs torque to overcome electrical loading. It in no way propels the truck, other than energize an electric motor. The only HP that is relevant in this case is that which is produced by the electric motor.

 

[Redz72]

I just think it's hilarious anyone ever thought they bought a new vehicle, it came with a full tank of fuel, AND THAT FUEL WAS FREE.

LOLOLOL!!!!

Nothing is free. It was a courtesy for as long as I can remember though. It also helped when gas was more affordable and greed wasn’t so prevalent and obvious

 

[theblet]

The overall miles is a good selling point, but the 0-60, MEHHH. All that acceleration does is eat up tires.

Accelerating an EV quickly or under high loads also drains the crap out of the batteries. That’s why there are so many EV towing fails.

 

[StuartV]

Oh ok that’s possible then.

ICE free zones? If that’s not govt overreach I dont know what is. How ludicrous

I *think* it's in Europe, not here in the US.

The overall miles is a good selling point, but the 0-60, MEHHH. All that acceleration does is eat up tires.

And as my grandmother used to say, that is why there's chocolate and vanilla...

And, if it can't drive on generator to electric motor, th

No idea what "th" is supposed to mean.

HP of the ICE is irrelevant in this application, as it does nothing more than run a generator.

Have you met my friend, Mister Physics? He told me that HP and Watts are just different units to describe the same thing. They are both units that quantify Power. And he said that a generator cannot produce more power than the power that is put in to spin it.

So, if the HP of the ICE were only, say 100 HP, then the generator could not output the full 130kW that is claimed. And, of course, in reality, the generator is not 100% efficient. So, if the ICE only puts out 174HP/130kW, then the generator still won't be able to put out a full 130kW.

In other words, the HP of the ICE is ABSO-farkin-LUTELY relevant. It is a hard limit on how much juice the generator can produce, which determines all kinds of things, like how quickly the battery can be recharged while driving, for example. How quickly the battery can recover from a long, hard pull up a hill. How hard the truck can accelerate if the battery is depleted. Etc.