REV vs Ramcharger - who would buy a REV?

[6of36]

I just got my 24, so I can wait a couple years for the bugs to work out, but my next truck, will more than likely be the Ramcharger. I don't trust turbos, millions have failed, before the other companies worked out their bugs, so I definitely won't trust Rams first try. I won't buy full electric, because I'm not stopping every 500 miles for 1 1/2 hours to charge, if I haven't used air, heat, wipers, or headlights. I have been asking for years for a hybrid, so I can drive around town, just plugging in at night, but being able to drive unlimited on trips, just stopping for gas.

 

[Darksteel165]

This thread is about the ram rev and the ramcharger. Stick to the subject or post somewhere else. We do love your "positive" attitude towards the future, but this post is about the ramcharger.

2022 Ram Big Horn Back Country
2016 Dodge Charger scat pack
2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara

Looks related to the Ramcharger to me.
People in this thread talk about plugging it in all the time to get it charged.
From what I see this truck only gets 20mpg, which knowing Ram's bull numbers is likely around 16mpg, is not very attractive unless I am missing something.

I do think it's a cool concept, a backwards hybrid, but also not really sure what is the point if you need to plug it in for ANY of these gains. Getting 20 or more MPG on a v6 is the norm in the current market, just not with Ram.
This truck now has gained a massive failure point. Without the v6 engine working you get nothing for miles as the batteries are small, without the EV motors working you don't move whatsoever as the v6 engine is not connected to the wheels You will need oil changes and the typical work on the v6 engine so you don't even save on maintenance, and the batteries will need to be replaced every few years, extremely expensive upkeep for a gain if you drive less then 150 miles a day and can plug in and assume electric is cheap where you live?

It's funny people act like it's a perpetual motion machine, look I can charge the battery while I drive! But you need to put gas in it just like all of our current trucks right now with marginally better mpg.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Looks related to the Ramcharger to me.
People in this thread talk about plugging it in all the time to get it charged.
From what I see this truck only gets 20mpg, which knowing Ram's bull numbers is likely around 16mpg, is not very attractive unless I am missing something.

I do think it's a cool concept, a backwards hybrid, but also not really sure what is the point if you need to plug it in for ANY of these gains. Getting 20 or more MPG on a v6 is the norm in the current market, just not with Ram.
This truck now has gained a massive failure point. Without the v6 engine working you get nothing for miles as the batteries are small, without the EV motors working you don't move whatsoever as the v6 engine is not connected to the wheels You will need oil changes and the typical work on the v6 engine so you don't even save on maintenance, and the batteries will need to be replaced every few years, extremely expensive upkeep for a gain if you drive less then 150 miles a day and can plug in and assume electric is cheap where you live?

It's funny people act like it's a perpetual motion machine, look I can charge the battery while I drive! But you need to put gas in it just like all of our current trucks right now with marginally better mpg.

Another person who is just making excuses not to buy it. Excuses that haven't even been proven. There is less maintenance because it's just the engine. No transmission, transfer case, or differential. The V6 Pentastar is a proven motor with a long life.

You complain about EVs and having to stop and charge for an hour when you can just stop for a few minutes to fuel a tank on your ICE engine. RAM makes an EV that has a ICE engine that you only need to stop for a few minutes to add fuel, but now, all of a sudden having to stop for fuel and keep driving is an negative? Which is it? A positive or a negative? All the benefits of the EV motors with towing and torque, with the benefit of only having to stop for gas. But somehow that's a sticking point for you?

 

[Rammit]

Ram charger is a game changer and is a huge improvement over the lightning that basically cannot do anything well. I still have no interest in this EV shift but at least this truck makes a little sense and is a good stop gap while they figure this out. Nice to see some innovation again

 

[Grape_Ape]

I think alot of the people saying they're missing the point are also missing the fact that they're rating this for 14,000lbs of towing and 2400lbs of payload preproduction. If those numbers are accurate and we get any semblance of that MPG when towing then this is going to be an amazing vehicle. I've not watched/read everything yet so they may have covered it. We'd have to compare the maximum rate of discharge vs recharge on the batteries. 130KW is gonna be cranking out the amps. May be able to handle towing better than we think.

Okay, so the first rebuttal to this is "just buy a 2500 and get a diesel." Fair - but if this is marketed as a 1500 and has those numbers I'm inclined to believe the ride quality may be superior to the diesel plus you don't have to deal with BS emissions stuff. That's huge especially when you consider this is intended for short daily commutes (150 miles and less) with the OCCASIONAL heavy towing/hauling session - AKA the common American truck owner.

So far there's a bunch of people who A.) can't grasp the fact that you don't have to plug this in all the time and B.) are making conclusions about a vehicle that has not had any real world tests yet.

 

[theblet]

I wonder how towing will work. As in, you have gobs of torque with a fully charged battery plant. It will get depleted pretty quick if you are towing something like a camper.
So the V6 kicks in to charge the batteries, but do you lose some of your towing capacity until the batteries charge to a certain level?

Guess we won't know until it's tested.

 

[Grape_Ape]

Yea I'd need to watch the engineering videos. I wonder what the possibility of the generator just supplying the electricity straight to the motors while towing.

 

[Jimmy07]

I wonder how towing will work. As in, you have gobs of torque with a fully charged battery plant. It will get depleted pretty quick if you are towing something like a camper.
So the V6 kicks in to charge the batteries, but do you lose some of your towing capacity until the batteries charge to a certain level?

Guess we won't know until it's tested.

There are different configurable EV and drive modes, one of them being tow mode. When in tow mode, it will know how to balance generator power between charging and putting power on the high voltage bus to the drive motors. It’ll disconnect the front drive motor when it’s not needed, use down grades to send more power to charge the batteries, only use enough power to the drive motors to keep the load moving at a given speed in the flats, etc.

 

[Cygnus A]

The EV concept was AMAZING looking. The production one? Nah. Boring.

 

[LaxDfns15]

I think alot of the people saying they're missing the point are also missing the fact that they're rating this for 14,000lbs of towing and 2400lbs of payload preproduction. If those numbers are accurate and we get any semblance of that MPG when towing then this is going to be an amazing vehicle. I've not watched/read everything yet so they may have covered it. We'd have to compare the maximum rate of discharge vs recharge on the batteries. 130KW is gonna be cranking out the amps. May be able to handle towing better than we think.

Okay, so the first rebuttal to this is "just buy a 2500 and get a diesel." Fair - but if this is marketed as a 1500 and has those numbers I'm inclined to believe the ride quality may be superior to the diesel plus you don't have to deal with BS emissions stuff. That's huge especially when you consider this is intended for short daily commutes (150 miles and less) with the OCCASIONAL heavy towing/hauling session - AKA the common American truck owner.

So far there's a bunch of people who A.) can't grasp the fact that you don't have to plug this in all the time and B.) are making conclusions about a vehicle that has not had any real world tests yet.

This is what makes it exciting for me. My dad just got a gas Titan XD Pro4X. It has the same VK56 that my old Titan did, and guess what? He gets 14mpg highway cause it's a heavy truck with a big V8. If I can somehow scrape out 1900 pounds of payload versus my current 1500 with a Rebel trim Ramcharger I'd be ecstatic, especially if I can also do 99% of my daily driving on just electric power. And yeah, when we load up and drive the family 400-800 miles on a road trip you're in diesel range territory when stopping for fuel/breaks. I currently get 400 miles plus or minus on my 26 gallon tank with the Hemi and driving 70-80. Increase that range theoretically by 50% with a more capable truck? Sign me up.

How many people consistently drive more than 120 miles a day? Being on this forum you'd think a lot. But this forum is a small percentage of Ram owners, and an even smaller percentage of all truck/car owners. 145 electric miles would be more than enough for 90% or more of the population's daily driving needs.

 

[theblet]

This is what makes it exciting for me. My dad just got a gas Titan XD Pro4X. It has the same VK56 that my old Titan did, and guess what? He gets 14mpg highway cause it's a heavy truck with a big V8. If I can somehow scrape out 1900 pounds of payload versus my current 1500 with a Rebel trim Ramcharger I'd be ecstatic, especially if I can also do 99% of my daily driving on just electric power. And yeah, when we load up and drive the family 400-800 miles on a road trip you're in diesel range territory when stopping for fuel/breaks. I currently get 400 miles plus or minus on my 26 gallon tank with the Hemi and driving 70-80. Increase that range theoretically by 50% with a more capable truck? Sign me up.

How many people consistently drive more than 120 miles a day? Being on this forum you'd think a lot. But this forum is a small percentage of Ram owners, and an even smaller percentage of all truck/car owners. 145 electric miles would be more than enough for 90% or more of the population's daily driving needs.

I’m around 40 to 50 a day. So running EV only would work for me most of the time, but at least you won’t have to worry about finding a charging station with this truck. That’s a big plus

 

[Grape_Ape]

Further proof that towing may not cut the range in half like previously considered.

"The 3.6-liter V-6 is a natural fit as it offers the capability and durability needed while towing," Dorchies said. "In the case of a heavy load (towing) or wide-open throttle, both battery and generator power are used."

Dorchies also added that noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) concerns were part of Ram's decision – meaning, engineers wanted to provide an experience that felt smooth and seamless. I can't blame them there; the range-extended BMW i3 used a tiny 647cc two-cylinder gasoline engine as backup, and it sounded like a piece of industrial equipment when it was running hard.

"The 3.6-liter V-6 and on-board generator were the best fit for matching the power output of the engine to the power needed to be put out by the generator," Dorchies said. "We also recognized that the 3.6-liter V-6 was the best choice for NVH and aligns better for smooth, quiet operation even with the generator running."

 

[mikeru82]

I'll add one more thing to this which makes the Ramcharger appeal to me. While it's not likely that many people will be doing this, the Ramcharger can act as a generator for your home when the power goes out. And unlike the Ford Lightning, it can recharge itself. I can't speak for anyone else, but it seems like since the beginning of the pandemic, I've see a lot more power outages for longer duration. So much so that I bought a 3500 watt generator. That's fine for powering a few things in the house, but the Ramcharger could power the entire house.

 

[Grape_Ape]

@LaxDfns15 Agreed. This truck is sounding better and better by the day as more information gets out.

As you mentioned - the average American is putting around 15,000 miles a yr on their vehicle. If they drive every day that equates to 40 miles a day. So theoretically you could charge the truck twice a week and never use gas.

 

[Grape_Ape]

I'll add one more thing to this which makes the Ramcharger appeal to me. While it's not likely that many people will be doing this, the Ramcharger can act as a generator for your home when the power goes out. And unlike the Ford Lightning, it can recharge itself. I can't speak for anyone else, but it seems like since the beginning of the pandemic, I've see a lot more power outages for longer duration. So much so that I bought a 3500 watt generator. That's fine for powering a few things in the house, but the Ramcharger could power the entire house.

I had not even considered that. I don't want to be a guinea pig on brand new tech but I want this truck even more now lol.

 

[HSKR R/T]

The only people the Ramcharger doesn't sound like a good deal to are the V8 purists, who need the sound to feel macho, and those making excuses to not like it because it's the bad EV that the government is pushing on everyone. Even if there wasn't a government push for green power and EV, this truck should be a dream for anyone that tows heavier loads, for a half ton truck, like travel trailers. Can you imagine driving to your campgrounds, setting up camp, using your truck as your generator, then driving home. You wouldn't need a separate, big, noisy generator. If it's just a weekend, could probably do the whole weekend with the camper on just the battery power from the truck.

 

[Darksteel165]

The only people the Ramcharger doesn't sound like a good deal to are the V8 purists, who need the sound to feel macho, and those making excuses to not like it because it's the bad EV that the government is pushing on everyone.

V8 purists? So you mean people who like muscle cars style vehicles? You just can't believe people have options and like what they pay for.
My Ram is my muscle car.
The first definition of muscle cars is defined by having a large V8.


So yes, they are completely differnet things, and when 1 is replacing another it will cause problems

Even if there wasn't a government push for green power and EV, this truck should be a dream for anyone that tows heavier loads, for a half ton truck, like travel trailers.

This isn't an EV, it has a gas engine.
This does sound like a pretty decent hybrid setup depending on how much regen it can charge (is that estimated 20mpg just the gas engine alone or also including regen from other sources? IE what will this truck get if you NEVER plug it in.

This is also going to be a very cost prohibitive truck for most people. I expect this to have a starting tag of over 80k for a base trim. The up front cost directly affects any "savings" you think might be there.

I would take the Ramcharger over the REV anyway, and the Ramcharger sounds too good on paper to be true and I suspect the product we end up getting to be far differnet. The REV was suppose to essentially have this as an option, so why are they announcing a completely different truck line for what was marketed as a "range extender" for the REV? Doesn't add up to me.

This is right up there with the Cybertruck, need to wait until these hit production and someone can buy it with real money before any of these specs or features matter. Kinda like how the REV is still nowhere to be seen even after all those fools spent $100 to join some exclusive club. Ram is testing its buyers.

 

[StuartV]

Looks related to the Ramcharger to me.
People in this thread talk about plugging it in all the time to get it charged.
From what I see this truck only gets 20mpg, which knowing Ram's bull numbers is likely around 16mpg, is not very attractive unless I am missing something.

I do think it's a cool concept, a backwards hybrid, but also not really sure what is the point if you need to plug it in for ANY of these gains. Getting 20 or more MPG on a v6 is the norm in the current market, just not with Ram.
This truck now has gained a massive failure point. Without the v6 engine working you get nothing for miles as the batteries are small, without the EV motors working you don't move whatsoever as the v6 engine is not connected to the wheels You will need oil changes and the typical work on the v6 engine so you don't even save on maintenance, and the batteries will need to be replaced every few years, extremely expensive upkeep for a gain if you drive less then 150 miles a day and can plug in and assume electric is cheap where you live?

Have you heard of the Hemi w/eTorque?

You get a Hemi gas engine coupled to a generator that is connected to a battery pack in the truck. The battery pack helps accelerate the truck in some scenarios and gets some charge from regen braking in other situations.

For a 4WD/AWD, it has a gas engine, a generator, a torque converter, a transmission, a transfer case, two differentials, auto-locking wheel hubs, a conventional battery and a battery pack. With no eTorque, you just drop the battery pack, but you still have all the rest.

The Ramcharger has a simpler, cheaper gas engine, a stouter generator, 2 electric motors, and a battery pack.

If you don't drive more than 145 miles between charges, the Ramcharger NEVER uses gasoline, at all. You could get 100,000 miles per gallon of gas. Normal driving will get less than that, but normal driving (and plugging in to charge) will net WAY better than 20 MPG overall. 20 is what you get AFTER the battery is depleted and you are running on gas alone. Regardless, if all you do with your truck is drive it on gas and never plug in, not even at night, then the Ramcharger is probably not your best option and you should probably be looking at a Chevy Minimax.

It has been reported in several places that the Ramcharger can directly power the electric motors from the Pentastar generator in some scenarios.

The Hemi w/eTorque is well-known to be taken out easily and often by battery problems. So is the non-eTorque, for that matter.

Explain to us all how the Ramcharger is more complicated and inherently more prone to failure?

It's funny people act like it's a perpetual motion machine, look I can charge the battery while I drive! But you need to put gas in it just like all of our current trucks right now with marginally better mpg.

I can drive it all week and never use ANY gas. How do you figure that is only "marginally" better MPG?

 

[HSKR R/T]

V8 purists? So you mean people who like muscle cars style vehicles? You just can't believe people have options and like what they pay for.
My Ram is my muscle car.
The first definition of muscle cars is defined by having a large V8.
View attachment 170978

So yes, they are completely differnet things, and when 1 is replacing another it will cause problems

Other than having a V8, your truck doesn't fit into any of the other parts of the definition of a muscle car. Nice try. So you pick out and highlight ONE item that matches your truck, and that's the thing you want to argue about? Totally ignoring the fact that your truck doesn't match anything else on that list.

This isn't an EV, it has a gas engine.
This does sound like a pretty decent hybrid setup depending on how much regen it can charge (is that estimated 20mpg just the gas engine alone or also including regen from other sources? IE what will this truck get if you NEVER plug it in.

This is also going to be a very cost prohibitive truck for most people. I expect this to have a starting tag of over 80k for a base trim. The up front cost directly affects any "savings" you think might be there.

I would take the Ramcharger over the REV anyway, and the Ramcharger sounds too good on paper to be true and I suspect the product we end up getting to be far differnet. The REV was suppose to essentially have this as an option, so why are they announcing a completely different truck line for what was marketed as a "range extender" for the REV? Doesn't add up to me.

This is right up there with the Cybertruck, need to wait until these hit production and someone can buy it with real money before any of these specs or features matter. Kinda like how the REV is still nowhere to be seen even after all those fools spent $100 to join some exclusive club. Ram is testing its buyers.

Nobody knows for sure what the range is on just the ICE, as it hasn't been released in the realm world yet. Either way, even if it's the 500+ mile range quoted in article, once you subtract the Range on battery alone, it's still better than 90% of the trucks on the road today. Plus has a higher towing and payload rating, more torque, better acceleration......... Other than not having a V8, what's not to like?

 

[StuartV]

This isn't an EV, it has a gas engine.

It's not an EV? You are aware you could drive it for the life of the truck without ever putting gas in it, right?

This does sound like a pretty decent hybrid setup depending on how much regen it can charge (is that estimated 20mpg just the gas engine alone or also including regen from other sources? IE what will this truck get if you NEVER plug it in.

20 MPG is the math of 690 mile range and 27 gallon tank. 145 mile electric range means 545 miles on gas. 545 miles divided by 27 gallons gives 20.2 MPG. So, if you never plug it in, and you run it in a mode that does not charge the battery (which I think is an operating mode it is supposed to have), you should get 20 MPG. On paper.

Maybe even if you let it charge while you're diving, you can keep driving after the gas runs out, using the charge you generated, and still get 545 miles. I don't know. Probably depends completely on the driving conditions.

This is also going to be a very cost prohibitive truck for most people. I expect this to have a starting tag of over 80k for a base trim. The up front cost directly affects any "savings" you think might be there.

We're all eager to see pricing. My guess is that the Ramcharger "option" (if you will) will not be more than $10K over a base model of the equivalent trim. In other words, I kind of expect to see a Big Horn Ramcharger that is not really cost prohibitive. I.e. maybe $10K more than a base Big Horn. Maybe there will even be a Tradesman Ramcharger.

But, that is all just pure speculation.

I would take the Ramcharger over the REV anyway, and the Ramcharger sounds too good on paper to be true and I suspect the product we end up getting to be far differnet. The REV was suppose to essentially have this as an option, so why are they announcing a completely different truck line for what was marketed as a "range extender" for the REV? Doesn't add up to me.

My suspicion is this came down to realizing that it was a MUCH easier (and therefore, less expensive final price tag) design exercise to change the existing DT design to sit on a new frame and hold a Pentastar with gas tank and a battery pack, then to figure out how to add a Pentastar and fuel tank to the REV design.

I will not be surprised at all if the REV production gets delayed and then delayed again and doesn't come out until 2027 or later.