Recall of High Pressure Fuel Pump

[djevox]

I just got a fun present in my mailbox- a hpfp recall notice. It still says no parts available for remedy. FCA is giving me the double barreled family friendly sign language for Christmas. Yaaay.

 

[Rossum]

I've been running VW TDIs since 2012 and now this truck

Look at the bright side. If the HPFP fails, FCA will fix it -- unlike VW, who tried to weasel out of it more often than not.

I've had TDIs since 2009. Two Touaregs and a Passat. No HPFP failures so far. Still have the second Touareg, and it's still rolling invisible coal because I've refused to apply the Dieselgate "fixes".

 

[Rebelguy2020]

Got my recall notice today

 

[tom318]

Look at the bright side. If the HPFP fails, FCA will fix it -- unlike VW, who tried to weasel out of it more often than not.

I've had TDIs since 2009. Two Touaregs and a Passat. No HPFP failures so far. Still have the second Touareg, and it's still rolling invisible coal because I've refused to apply the Dieselgate "fixes".

VW has been great to us since 2012. My buddy had a Touareg that he just beat the **** out of and it was issue free and recently traded it with 160-170k for a 2500 Cummins.
The VW fix wasn’t ideal, got our golf tuned and it’s been awesome. Never had major issues but since the fix in the golf the emissions warranty is nuts, 11yr or 150 or 180k miles on emissions components. Can’t complain!
My only concern with the recall is them not having a fix ready and It would suck on a family trip.

Has anyone had one of these DT trucks die on them at highway speeds? What happens? Does it default to neutral and coast or do things get sketchy with wheels locking up? I’m hoping you can at least coast it out....I didn’t realize this till today but all the cars that have ever died (timing belt failure) on me were manual so I immediately threw them in N without thinking.

 

[2021EcoDiesel]

VW has been great to us since 2012. My buddy had a Touareg that he just beat the **** out of and it was issue free and recently traded it with 160-170k for a 2500 Cummins.
The VW fix wasn’t ideal, got our golf tuned and it’s been awesome. Never had major issues but since the fix in the golf the emissions warranty is nuts, 11yr or 150 or 180k miles on emissions components. Can’t complain!
My only concern with the recall is them not having a fix ready and It would suck on a family trip.

Has anyone had one of these DT trucks die on them at highway speeds? What happens? Does it default to neutral and coast or do things get sketchy with wheels locking up? I’m hoping you can at least coast it out....I didn’t realize this till today but all the cars that have ever died (timing belt failure) on me were manual so I immediately threw them in N without thinking.

I imagine we'd have to whip the shifter dial back to "N" very quickly to coast with no drama at all. But based on my previous experience with diesels injection pumps biting the dust, it would just be an engine brake, not the calmest thing to have happen, but controllable. Unless something on the drive side of the pump were to go, then there'd be some broken timing components I would think.

 

[tom318]

I imagine we'd have to whip the shifter dial back to "N" very quickly to coast with no drama at all. But based on my previous experience with diesels injection pumps biting the dust, it would just be an engine break, not the calmest thing to have happen, but controllable. Unless something on the drive side of the pump were to go, then there'd be some broken timing components I would think.

Id hope it wouldn't be to sketchy. Whipping that dial sifter into N in a panic situation isn't something I've been practicing hahaha. In a manual its been my natural reaction to just clutch if something is off. Surely RAM has sorted this one, failed fuel pump isn't the only thing that can hault a motor.

 

[TSL]

With regard to the engine quiting and not being able to get into neutral, see this post : 33 gal tank
Turns out there's a secret tab you can yank to mechanically put the transmission into neutral. This is more for towing than for coasting though, it's not something you could do on the fly if the motor died. I just had my truck run out of fuel ( by my own incompetence ) and was stuck half on, half off the road for a while in a bad spot because I couldn't figure out how to get it into neutral with the engine dead. A guy offered me a tow but I didn't know how to put it into neutral.

 

[2021EcoDiesel]

With regard to the engine quiting and not being able to get into neutral, see this post : 33 gal tank
Turns out there's a secret tab you can yank to mechanically put the transmission into neutral. This is more for towing than for coasting though, it's not something you could do on the fly if the motor died. I just had my truck run out of fuel ( by my own incompetence ) and was stuck half on, half off the road for a while in a bad spot because I couldn't figure out how to get it into neutral with the engine dead. A guy offered me a tow but I didn't know how to put it into neutral.

Very useful piece of information TSL, thanks for the post!

 

[Brutal_HO]

I imagine we'd have to whip the shifter dial back to "N" very quickly to coast with no drama at all. But based on my previous experience with diesels injection pumps biting the dust, it would just be an engine brake, not the calmest thing to have happen, but controllable. Unless something on the drive side of the pump were to go, then there'd be some broken timing components I would think.

The failure mode of the CP4 is that the internal cam surface and pump bore roller will shred sending metal (aka glitter) into the system, clogging injectors, and fouling the entire fuel system. No other engine or timing component damage should occur (at least it doesn't on a mighty Cummins 6.7). The truck will lose power so anything that runs off the hydro - steering and brakes will "fail" (are ecodiesel Hydroassist?) Hydroassist brakes will typically have enough pressure in the hydro lines/booster for 1-2 applications. That's why it's a safety recall. The engine will continue to rotate so there shouldn't be any wheel lockup or the like. The trans will probably go into limp mode with all the codes that are gonna set.

Assuming the replacement is similar to the HD's in that they will install a new version of the CP3, the internal cam/piston lubrication chamber is separate from the fuel delivery chamber so any failure is contained within that isolated chamber.

 

[2021EcoDiesel]

The failure mode of the CP4 is that the internal cam surface and pump bore roller will shred sending metal (aka glitter) into the system, clogging injectors, and fouling the entire fuel system. No other engine or timing component damage should occur (at least it doesn't on a mighty Cummins 6.7). The truck will lose power so anything that runs off the hydro - steering and brakes will "fail" (are ecodiesel Hydroassist?) Hydroassist brakes will typically have enough pressure in the hydro lines/booster for 1-2 applications. That's why it's a safety recall. The engine will continue to rotate so there shouldn't be any wheel lockup or the like. The trans will probably go into limp mode with all the codes that are gonna set.

Assuming the replacement is similar to the HD's in that they will install a new version of the CP3, the internal cam/piston lubrication chamber is separate from the fuel delivery chamber so any failure is contained within that isolated chamber.

Thanks for the reply Brutal_HO, I've seen a couple of these pumps fail on pieces of equipment at work. I'm the on who gets the privilege of pulling apart the whole fuel system and looking for the glitter! I've only seen this happen once but on a Yanmar 4 banger diesel. The drive gear on the rear of the pump cracked when the pump locked up causing a fair amount of damage to this particular engines timing gears. I'd bet my paycheck that if this machine was brought in when the low fuel pressure warning light came on instead of running it for another hour, we wouldn't have had to replace everything under the timing cover, and maybe could've gotten away with a pump and some fresh injectors. This is by all means a Unicorn of a situation, absolute worst case scenario.

I believe the steering on the 1500's is 100% electric but please correct me if I'm wrong, so that should still be powered after an engine loss of power. Brakes on the other hand, I'm not sure, but I know someone on this forum has that answer.

Fingers crossed they make the right decision and put a good pump in these trucks. I love my EcoDiesel but there's always that tiny little worry in the back of my mind that the pump will let go . Sweet rig by the way! Bet she pulls like a dream! We're also rolling on the same rubber, AT3W 285/65/R20's 25k miles so far and love the tires.

 

[c3k]

Here's a great video showing the differences between a CP3 and CP4.
(I think ecoDiesels have a CP4.2. I'm not sure what ".2" variant means.)

Anyway, this is well worth the 11 minutes:

 

[djevox]

Here's a great video showing the differences between a CP3 and CP4.
(I think ecoDiesels have a CP4.2. I'm not sure what ".2" variant means.)

Anyway, this is well worth the 11 minutes:

That video upsets me. I hope someone comes out with an easy way to retrofit a cp3 for the guys who keep these long term. Sounds like the variants are different configurations, i.e., electric vs. gear driven, head directions, etc. Edit: I just contacted them to see if they plan on making a bypass kit for the ecodiesel. I’m not holding my breath though.
Here’s the cp4.2 vid:

 

[Brutal_HO]

CP4.2 is a 2-piston pump.

CP3.3 is a 3 piston pump. FWIW, the new nomenclature on these pumps are CP-ISB21S3 (CP-ISB19S3 for the 19-20 HD's because we're "special").

I see a pattern... </hint>

I don't know if the Eco is a CP4.1 or a CP4.2. Pretty sure the VW used a CP4.1.

 

[c3k]

After watching some of the videos at the S&S Diesel Motorsports website, I =really= prefer the CP3 design.

 

[Brutal_HO]

That video upsets me. I hope someone comes out with an easy way to retrofit a cp3 for the guys who keep these long term. Sounds like the variants are different configurations, i.e., electric vs. gear driven, head directions, etc. Edit: I just contacted them to see if they plan on making a bypass kit for the ecodiesel. I’m not holding my breath though.
Here’s the cp4.2 vid:

He planned to, but dropped the RAM CP4.2 bypass kit and they (and Industrial Injection) only offered a CP3.3 retrofit.

Almost all HD owners that did their own kits received reimbursement when submitted but likely have lost all or part of their drivetrain warranty. At the very least, the fuel system part. RAM/FCA/Stellantis won't issue a response to any inquiries.

 

[djevox]

He planned to, but dropped the RAM CP4.2 bypass kit and they (and Industrial Injection) only offered a CP3.3 retrofit.

Almost all HD owners that did their own kits received reimbursement when submitted but likely have lost all or part of their drivetrain warranty. At the very least, the fuel system part. RAM/FCA/Stellantis won't issue a response to any inquiries.

I got a response back from S&S saying “it’s on our radar and follow on social media for updates”. So in non-diplomatic plain talk, seems to me that ecodiesel owners aren’t getting anything.

The Ram ecodiesels have the 4.2.

 

[c3k]

Meantime, I'll keep using my Amsoil lubricity additive and make sure to prime the HPFP should I need to change the fuel filter.

It seems aeration of the fuel can be one of the ways the spring cups rotate on the cam.

The more I see/learn, the less I like the CP4 series. WTH were they thinking???

 

[Rebelguy2020]

CP4.2 is a 2-piston pump.

CP3.3 is a 3 piston pump. FWIW, the new nomenclature on these pumps are CP-ISB21S3 (CP-ISB19S3 for the 19-20 HD's because we're "special").

I see a pattern... </hint>

I don't know if the Eco is a CP4.1 or a CP4.2. Pretty sure the VW used a CP4.1.

The eco has the CP4.2
I’m bringing my wife’s 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk Elite for warranty work, I think it’s the driveline hanger bearing, it’s noisy, it had happened to her 2014 Jeep.
While I’m there I will ask the dealer if they have more info about the recall, the recall does not affect 2022 Rams built since July 2022, there must have been a modification to the pump, or maybe it was a flaw in the pump manufacturing process, I know that the original part number was 68211269AA and is now 6850144AA. It is not a CP3 replacement pump. I will also ask them if they encountered pump failure repairs at there dealership, we are at 45,000 population in my town.

 

[djevox]

Meantime, I'll keep using my Amsoil lubricity additive and make sure to prime the HPFP should I need to change the fuel filter.

It seems aeration of the fuel can be one of the ways the spring cups rotate on the cam.

The more I see/learn, the less I like the CP4 series. WTH were they thinking???

My thoughts exactly, and I have zero faith in that pump. On a related note, I had 3 extended cranks after changing my fuel filter. That means a decent amount of air went through the cp4 and now I’m more freaked out about it. One extended crank I would’ve been ok with and feel is unavoidable, but 3 seems too much to me.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

My thoughts exactly, and I have zero faith in that pump. On a related note, I had 3 extended cranks after changing my fuel filter. That means a decent amount of air went through the cp4 and now I’m more freaked out about it. One extended crank I would’ve been ok with and feel is unavoidable, but 3 seems too much to me.

The low pressure fuel pump primes the high pressure fuel pump, it’s on a loop and returns to tank, so the air is bled off after a few seconds, the air in the fuel lines going to the injectors has to be bled off so it requires the engine to crank, or cracking the lines at the injectors which is not required on the eco diesel.