RAM Payload Definition in Regards to Towing

[devildodge]

From my CAT scale slip...my truck has a payload need of 2418 pounds for a 5700lb trailer.

Sure. I can get rid of the wood...but we love campfires. I can get rid of the bikes. But we love to bike. We do not always take the Kayaks...but we love to kayak. I could take off my side steps...i hate them...wife and kids need them. I can leave my toolbox at home...i have tools in the camper.

I want a REBEL od BTS in the worst way.

My camper is well under a 1500s towing...if I ride by myself. I hate using walkie talkies to communicate on a trip.

So a 2500 it is. I also enjoy having it as a daily driver...guess I am odd.

Frustrating it is...also why I am not an owner of a Powerwagon.

 

[HAL9001]

You got two choices.

Hook and go, add airbags like 95% of people do.

Or understand the capacities, and drive yourself crazy trying to stay under them.

My pet peeve for 1500s is...you can haul or tow...but you can not haul while towing.

Well, my Limited came with airbags, but as you know that only helps a bit with the leveling and not with the tow specs.

You're so right, I am driving myself crazy trying to stay within the capacities. If I was blissfully ignorant then I would just buy what I wanted and properly get away with it as many people do. But I won't do that. Sometimes too much knowledge can be a tough burden.

 

[Finn5033]

You're so right, I am driving myself crazy trying to stay within the capacities. If I was blissfully ignorant then I would just buy what I wanted and properly get away with it as many people do. But I won't do that. Sometimes too much knowledge can be a tough burden.

I’m with you, I’m not willing to tow/haul over my trucks capacity. I actually have a custom ordered RV fish house being built right now. It’s a tandem axle 20’ aluminum frame with 4’ v-nose so it will end up around 27-28’ total length. The builder told me it shouldn’t weigh more than 6000lbs but he doesn’t know that for sure. All they do is customer orders and they don’t have the opportunity to weight them very often because people pick them up the day they are done. I think it will be within my trucks payload capacity to haul but the first thing I’m going to do when I pick it up is hit a CAT scale. Long story short if I have to I’ll be getting a bigger truck.

 

[LaxDfns15]

I know it doesn't help, and hindsight is 20/20, but that's why you don't buy a fully loaded truck to tow a travel trailer. Or if you do, you go HD.

As shown by a lot of questions and anger on this and many other forums, a half ton is entry level for a lot of new truck owners that get sold by a salesman thinking "tow capacity" is the end-all, be-all of towing. Payload is king, especially with half tons.

 

[devildodge]

The hardest part on the education side of this...is getting past how capable a truck is. The 2021 RAM 1500 Tradesman 2wd with dana super 60 is nearly as capable as my 99 Dodge RAM 2500 4X4 with V10 Magnum.

The issue is...these trucks will tow quite well overload. And that is all fine and good, until you are in a situation it isn't

Sure...you can go over payload a few hundred pounds. Sure you can add air bags and remove the sag that is telling you, hey...we are overloaded. But when it comes time to stop and steer in the rain...not gonna be fun. Or you are 350 miles into your 400 mile trek and the wind picks up. Not gonna be fun.

Sorry for the frustration of building a safe tow platform...but I am so relieved to find more people trying

 

[devildodge]

I know it doesn't help, and hindsight is 20/20, but that's why you don't buy a fully loaded truck to tow a travel trailer. Or if you do, you go HD.

As shown by a lot of questions and anger on this and many other forums, a half ton is entry level for a lot of new truck owners that get sold by a salesman thinking "tow capacity" is the end-all, be-all of towing. Payload is king, especially with half tons.

You should see how surprised people are when they buy a 2500 mega cab diesel limited and see it only has a 1700lb payload...good times

 

[LaxDfns15]

You should see how surprised people are when they buy a 2500 mega cab diesel limited and see it only has a 1700lb payload...good times

I literally had to explain all this to my old boss why his fully loaded Platinum F250 wasn't going to safely tow the trailer he was showing me. He was so mad.

 

[IvoryHemi]

This, of course, is absolutely true and that's exactly where the problem lies for someone looking to buy an RV.

What does someone like me do? I'm currently looking for a travel trailer that I can safely tow with my 2021 RAM 1500 Limited. My VIN came back with a Maximum Payload of 1,156 lbs and a Maximum Towing weight of 11,056 lbs, and it has a Class IV hitch with a maximum tongue weight of 1100 lbs. So, that's the best case of what I have to work with. A RAM 2500 or larger was out of the cards for me for many practical reasons.

Even travel trailers classified as "Lightweight", "Featherweight", "Ultralight", "Half-Ton Towable", etc. come with a dry tongue weight of 500-950+ lbs. And that's before the options most people want or need. And, if that wasn't bad enough, they almost always put the big external storage compartment, the propane tanks, and usually the batteries right directly over the trailer hitch.

With my truck, the tongue weight is obviously going to be the first and foremost limiting factor. So, what do I have on hand to figure out what I can purchase that will be in spec? Nothing more than a probably fudged dry tongue weight from the RV manufacturer. Everything else is pure speculation. Even if I choose one with a dry tongue weight of say only 600 lbs, I have no idea what the actual tongue weight will be once I add all the cargo. It could easily go out of spec. That depends upon many factors such as the axle position, the number of axles, the weight placement and distribution of the options and cargo, the locations of the water tanks, and any cargo weight I can try to use in the back of the trailer as a possible offset. Without actually having the trailer in my possession and experimenting, I can't realistically try out or weigh anything. I can only guess. No dealer is going to let me order a trailer, have it built, and then give it to me to experiment and weigh it before I agree to buy it. They won't even do that with the few they have left in stock. I can only make my best guess and hope for the best. Even if I try to choose one with the lowest dry tongue weight, it may in fact end up worse than one with a higher dry weight due to the configuration and weight distribution of each specific trailer. There is nothing for me to do but make my best guess.

Everyone else is in the same boat if they attempt to try and closely match a tow vehicle with a trailer. It's just hit or miss.

I completely understand, my travel trailer (7,000 lb GVWR) has a dry tongue weight listed at 585 lbs, but actual turned out to be around 960 lbs lightly loaded.

 

[HAL9001]

I know it doesn't help, and hindsight is 20/20, but that's why you don't buy a fully loaded truck to tow a travel trailer. Or if you do, you go HD.

As shown by a lot of questions and anger on this and many other forums, a half ton is entry level for a lot of new truck owners that get sold by a salesman thinking "tow capacity" is the end-all, be-all of towing. Payload is king, especially with half tons.

You're right of course. I was coming from an SUV and the RAM 1500 Limited had double the towing capacity. Still, it's never enough. I can go to the 2500 end of the forum and people there are being told to move up to a 3500.

But even if I didn't buy a loaded Limited and had the full 1800 lb payload of the Tradesman, the Class IV hitch on it is still only rated for 1100 lbs. tongue weight. Same limit, different reason.

For me, the 1500 will have to do, as I can't even fit a 2500 in my garage. I'll just have to live with a smaller trailer.

 

[devildodge]

1800 lb payload of the Tradesman, the Class IV hitch on it is still only rated for 1100 lbs.

But you could put 700lbs in the truck and still use 1100lbs of tongue weight.

Rather than with 1100lb payload you put 700lbs in the truck you can only use 400lbs tongue weight.

Just picking


Every truck with the same configuration has the same capacities. Every trucks options take away those capacities.

We have some guys on the HeftyDuty site that have 3500 dually Limited trucks that still do not have enough capacity for their large (read humongous) trailers.

It does not end til you decide that the best plan is to buy a tailer and a truck that match lol.

Some of those guys really need a Semi...hahahaha

 

[HAL9001]

But you could put 700lbs in the truck and still use 1100lbs of tongue weight.

Rather than with 1100lb payload you put 700lbs in the truck you can only use 400lbs tongue weight.

Just picking


Every truck with the same configuration has the same capacities. Every trucks options take away those capacities.

We have some guys on the HeftyDuty site that have 3500 dually Limited trucks that still do not have enough capacity for their large (read humongous) trailers.

It does not end til you decide that the best plan is to buy a tailer and a truck that match lol.

Some of those guys really need a Semi...hahahaha

True, but what I want to do, and I suppose most others, is to simply be able to tow the trailer we want to buy, not load up the truck with hundreds of pounds. Either truck is limited to 1100 lbs. or less tongue weight. You can't practically and conveniently put the propane tanks and the dual RV batteries in the truck, well at least you shouldn't.

Lol, I was going to say, what do the 3500 guys do when they run out of capacity, buy a semi? At least we 1500 and 2500 owners have options to upgrade.

 

[GTLimited]

True, but what I want to do, and I suppose most others, is to simply be able to tow the trailer we want to buy, not load up the truck with hundreds of pounds. Either truck is limited to 1100 lbs. or less tongue weight. You can't practically and conveniently put the propane tanks and the dual RV batteries in the truck, well at least you shouldn't.

Lol, I was going to say, what do the 3500 guys do when they run out of capacity, buy a semi? At least we 1500 and 2500 owners have options to upgrade.

Great discussion here. Out of curiosity, what travel trailer are you considering that is limited by a 1,100lb tongue weight?

 

[HAL9001]

Great discussion here. Out of curiosity, what travel trailer are you considering that is limited by a 1,100lb tongue weight?

The Jayco White Hawk 27RB. Here are the specs:

 

[devildodge]

Another thing to consider when getting a travel trailer is length. Not just because a long trailer becomes a sail...but for when trying to find a spot.

Camping is very popular right now. And alot of campgrounds are set up for 28 and under.

We camp every weekend. We never had much issue with getting our favorite sites. But this past year...and so far this year...places are booked

Now, we mainly stay in state parks...but we would have missed 3 weekends had our camper not been in the 26 foot range.

There are so many things to concern yourself with when camping and towing. And if you will fit is one if them.

Good times

 

[HAL9001]

Another thing to consider when getting a travel trailer is length. Not just because a long trailer becomes a sail...but for when trying to find a spot.

Camping is very popular right now. And alot of campgrounds are set up for 28 and under.

We camp every weekend. We never had much issue with getting our favorite sites. But this past year...and so far this year...places are booked

Now, we mainly stay in state parks...but we would have missed 3 weekends had our camper not been in the 26 foot range.

There are so many things to concern yourself with when camping and towing. And if you will fit is one if them.

Good times

Yes, I am quite concerned about all of that. It's amazing how stressful trying to have a little fun can be, lol.

I won't be a weekend camper, my plans are to head south each winter (soon-to-be-retired Snow Bird). I'm getting too old for a constant 3 feet of snow and 15-degree weather for months where I live. So, I would be booking a campground 6-8 months or more in advance and then stay there for three months. I've been checking all the online booking sites and all looks good for such advanced reservations and a 33' trailer. It does not look so good for the State and National parks where trailer size is paramount and the smaller the trailer the better as you say. But this is going to be my actual home for 25% of the year, so I'd like it to be fairly nice. I was going to buy a condo down south, but I don't want to be stuck in one location year after year.

So, my driving will be only to get to the destination, and then stay put for months.

I haven't yet decided on any trailer. Basically, I find one I like, run all the numbers, and then talk myself out of it, lol. I've been searching for well over a year now and the RAM is the second tow vehicle I bought for this purpose. Pretty soon I'm going to need to make up my mind and just get on with it. I'm definitely overthinking everything as you mentioned before.

 

[devildodge]

Yes, I am quite concerned about all of that. It's amazing how stressful trying to have a little fun can be, lol.

I won't be a weekend camper, my plans are to head south each winter (soon-to-be-retired Snow Bird). I'm getting too old for a constant 3 feet of snow and 15-degree weather for months where I live. So, I would be booking a campground 6-8 months or more in advance and then stay there for three months. I've been checking all the online booking sites and all looks good for such advanced reservations and a 33' trailer. It does not look so good for the State and National parks where trailer size is paramount and the smaller the trailer the better as you say. But this is going to be my actual home for 25% of the year, so I'd like it to be fairly nice. I was going to buy a condo down south, but I don't want to be stuck in one location year after year.

So, my driving will be only to get to the destination, and then stay put for months.

I haven't yet decided on any trailer. Basically, I find one I like, run all the numbers, and then talk myself out of it, lol. I've been searching for well over a year now and the RAM is the second tow vehicle I bought for this purpose. Pretty soon I'm going to need to make up my mind and just get on with it. I'm definitely overthinking everything as you mentioned before.

Well, now knowing your plan. I would be a bit more inclined to go a bit over payload since it seems you will be driving to a known destination with no real hurry to get there. You will also be doing most of that in rather flat areas.

Are you going to be traveling by yourself?

If so...i would use the available payload as your tongue weight of 1100 max.

Your weight in driver's seat will not cause any concern

When I think about camping I obviously think about passengers and equipment and wood.

Your getting ready to lice a pretty laid back and free lifestyle...i still got 15 more years...not wishing my life away...but I am a bit jealous lol

 

[LoNeStAr]

Keep in mind when you use a wdh some of that tongue weight will be moved to the front axles and the trailer axles.

@devildodge I know we have talked about this before but the FCA towing document dated 10/14/19 says when using a wdh the class IV hitch is rated at 1290 max Hope all is well bro.

 

[devildodge]

Thanks. Yeah. I forgot about that. I knew someone was paying attention.

Thanks. @LoNeStAr

 

[IvoryHemi]

Keep in mind when you use a wdh some of that tongue weight will be moved to the front axles and the trailer axles.

Shifting tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle only helps to stay under GAWR, it doesn’t change GVWR.

Yes a little weight gets kicked back to the trailer axles, this weight shift can help reduce payload. But it typically isn’t much

 

[LoNeStAr]

Shifting tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle only helps to stay under GAWR, it doesn’t change GVWR.

Yes a little weight gets kicked back to the trailer axles, this weight shift can help reduce payload. But it typically isn’t much

I agree. OG poster was concerned about the 1100 tongue weight so just pointing that out.