RAM Payload Definition in Regards to Towing

[HAL9001]

Yes, I'm aware that a WDH can shift some of the weight to the trailer axles. However, it's hard to verify and I don't know if I would want to count on it. It would be much better to start off with the proper specs as if no WDH was going to be used. I will, of course, definitely use a WDH to transfer some of the load off of the truck's rear axle and onto the front axle, which is its primary purpose. If it also shifts some of the weight onto the trailer's axles, which it probably will, so much the better, but again it's hard to verify and count on that.

When I brought up the issue of payload with the RV dealer, he said that without WD hitches he couldn't sell half as many trailers. He said half-ton pickups wouldn't be able to tow nearly as many trailers without them. He assured me that the 27RB trailer I was considering would be fine with a WDH given my payload. Of course, I'm not going to take just his word on that.

I'm looking into exactly what WDH's can and cannot do. Like most trailing aspects, opinions vary wildly and it's hard to know exactly who to believe. I'd like to see some rock-hard evidence to convince me. I'll be digging into that this weekend when I have some time.

I do like this WDH though. At least it gives you some indication of what's going on. The others are more or less hit or miss when you set them up.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Yes, I'm aware that a WDH can shift some of the weight to the trailer axles. However, it's hard to verify and I don't know if I would want to count on it.
I'm looking into exactly what WDH's can and cannot do. Like most trailing aspects, opinions vary wildly and it's hard to know exactly who to believe. I'd like to see some rock-hard evidence to convince me. I'll be digging into that this weekend when I have some time.

It’s not hard to verify, just need to spend $20 and hit a weight scale for 3 passes. Here is my “rock-hard evidence”

Pass 1: Vehicle only
Pass 2: Vehicle w/ TT and WDH disengaged
Pass 3: Vehicle w/ TT and WDH engaged

My Durango is rated at
7,100 lbs GVWR
3,200 lbs front GAWR
3,900 lbs rear GAWR
13,100 lbs GCWR

As you can see without the WDH and the full tongue weight, I’m over my rear axle rating. With it engaged, it shifts 500 lbs off the rear; 360 lbs to the front axle and 140 lbs back to the trailer axles.

 

[HAL9001]

It’s not hard to verify, just need to spend $20 and hit a weight scale for 3 passes. Here is my “rock-hard evidence”

Pass 1: Vehicle only
Pass 2: Vehicle w/ TT and WDH disengaged
Pass 3: Vehicle w/ TT and WDH engaged

My Durango is rated at
7,100 lbs GVWR
3,200 lbs front GAWR
3,900 lbs rear GAWR
13,100 lbs GCWR

As you can see without the WDH and the full tongue weight, I’m over my rear axle rating. With it engaged, it shifts 500 lbs off the rear; 360 lbs to the front axle and 140 lbs back to the trailer axles.

View attachment 84516
View attachment 84514

View attachment 84515

Excellent info! Thanks!

 

[Willwork4truck]

3 things:
"1500 trucks are payload limited..." Could be changed to "Limited trim 1500 trucks are payload limited..." Ha ha

Maybe look at this YT video:

"DIY Trailer Tongue Weight Scale (bathroom scale)

"Hook and go, add airbags like 95% of people do."
See the thread "How big have you towed?" on this forum, 16 pages, 313 posts... Me thinks a few of those who posted just might be a "red hair" over the 1100#'s.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Also this current thread will give you some ideas what others are doing and saying:

Ram 1500 Limited, HemiV8, 8spd, 3:21 (Air Suspension) Please show or tell what you haul or Tow ?​

 

[HAL9001]

3 things:
"1500 trucks are payload limited..." Could be changed to "Limited trim 1500 trucks are payload limited..." Ha ha

Maybe look at this YT video:

"DIY Trailer Tongue Weight Scale (bathroom scale)

"Hook and go, add airbags like 95% of people do."
See the thread "How big have you towed?" on this forum, 16 pages, 313 posts... Me thinks a few of those who posted just might be a "red hair" over the 1100#'s.

Thanks for that video, that's a great trick. It's sure a lot more convenient than always having to go to a CAT scale, especially for me since the nearest one is an hour and a half away. I'll rig that up when I buy a trailer.

 

[HAL9001]

Also this current thread will give you some ideas what others are doing and saying:

Ram 1500 Limited, HemiV8, 8spd, 3:21 (Air Suspension) Please show or tell what you haul or Tow ?​

Thanks!

 

[JJRamTX]

Hence why I still have my motorhome because bringing this...



and still having a vehicle to get around after camp is setup... requires this...



And also requires this...

 

[Willwork4truck]

And just a wee bit of this:

 

[JJRamTX]

And just a wee bit of this: View attachment 84556

Since you can't take it with you, and my kids and grandkids have enough!

 

[HAL9001]

Here is another very interesting video showing the effects of a Weight Distributing Hitch. This video demonstrates the advantage of a WDH over airbags, but it also shows the advantage of a WDH over not using one, as well as what precisely occurs concerning all the weights involved.

There are some very interesting takeaways from this video that the producers did not fully expand on.

They first show the Baseline weight measurements:



Then they show the trailer mounted without a WDH:



Then with a WDH:



What all of this shows is very interesting. Here is a summary:



It very interesting to note that even without a WDH, the full 1000 lb tongue weight was not fully transferred to the truck as a payload. It appears that 895 lbs of it was, while 215 lbs were distributed to the trailer's axle. This is surprising, at least to me, as I thought all of it would become truck payload. This may change with different towing rigs, but I think it can be fairly assumed that not all of the tongue weight should necessarily be considered truck payload. This should also act as a caution to anyone measuring the trailer tongue weight directly and thinking that measurement directly applies to the minimum 10% of gross trailer weight (GTW) that you should have as tongue weight on the tow vehicle for safety. You may be underweight in that area.

With a WDH, things changed considerably. The front axle weight improved as expected, which is the primary and intended purpose of a WDH, but additionally, even more payload weight was transferred to the trailer's axle. The 1000 lb tongue weight of the trailer appears to result in a 775 lb payload to the truck and a 365 lb payload to the trailer. This should all be properly accounted for when you attempt to determine the truck payload, the trailer's gross axle weight, and the proper tongue weight of 10-15% of the gross trailer weight (GTW).

So, this apparently confirms that weights may not necessarily be distributed as they might first appear and that accurate, real-world measurements are vital to determine what really happens.

 

[Finn5033]

The most surprising thing to me was that airing up the bags actually made the situation with the weight transfer even worse. I know that Air bags don’t have a WDH effect but I wouldn’t have expected it to add more wight to the rear axle and remove more weight from the front axle.

 

[HAL9001]

The most surprising thing to me was that airing up the bags actually made the situation with the weight transfer even worse. I know that Air bags don’t have a WDH effect but I wouldn’t have expected it to add more wight to the rear axle and remove more weight from the front axle.

The airbags are simply lifting the rear of the truck causing the trailer tongue to rise, thus picking up a bit more weight from the trailer.

The WDH is shifting the weight distribution point back toward the trailer distributing a bit more weight away from the rear of the truck onto both the front end and the trailer.

 

[Finn5033]

The airbags are simply lifting the rear of the truck causing the trailer tongue to rise, thus picking up a bit more weight from the trailer.

The WDH is shifting the weight distribution point back toward the trailer distributing a bit more weight away from the rear of the truck onto both the front end and the trailer.

Yeah I understand what a WDH does, I just would have thought raising the rear back to level would at least transfer some weight back to the front of the truck and the trailer axle. But in fact it somehow took more weight off of the front of the truck

 

[HAL9001]

Yeah I understand what a WDH does, I just would have thought raising the rear back to level would at least transfer some weight back to the front of the truck and the trailer axle. But in fact it somehow took more weight off of the front of the truck

Yea, it would have been great if the airbags worked for that, they came with my Limited and a good WDH is expensive.

 

[JJRamTX]

Here is another very interesting video showing the effects of a Weight Distributing Hitch. This video demonstrates the advantage of a WDH over airbags, but it also shows the advantage of a WDH over not using one, as well as what precisely occurs concerning all the weights involved.

There are some very interesting takeaways from this video that the producers did not fully expand on.

They first show the Baseline weight measurements:

View attachment 84709

Then they show the trailer mounted without a WDH:

View attachment 84711

Then with a WDH:

View attachment 84712

What all of this shows is very interesting. Here is a summary:

View attachment 84713

It very interesting to note that even without a WDH, the full 1000 lb tongue weight was not fully transferred to the truck as a payload. It appears that 895 lbs of it was, while 215 lbs were distributed to the trailer's axle. This is surprising, at least to me, as I thought all of it would become truck payload. This may change with different towing rigs, but I think it can be fairly assumed that not all of the tongue weight should necessarily be considered truck payload. This should also act as a caution to anyone measuring the trailer tongue weight directly and thinking that measurement directly applies to the minimum 10% of gross trailer weight (GTW) that you should have as tongue weight on the tow vehicle for safety. You may be underweight in that area.

With a WDH, things changed considerably. The front axle weight improved as expected, which is the primary and intended purpose of a WDH, but additionally, even more payload weight was transferred to the trailer's axle. The 1000 lb tongue weight of the trailer appears to result in a 775 lb payload to the truck and a 365 lb payload to the trailer. This should all be properly accounted for when you attempt to determine the truck payload, the trailer's gross axle weight, and the proper tongue weight of 10-15% of the gross trailer weight (GTW).

So, this apparently confirms that weights may not necessarily be distributed as they might first appear and that accurate, real-world measurements are vital to determine what really happens.

A WDH definitely can improve handling and allow for a little more payload ability putting some of the tongue weight back on the trailer. The part I don't understand about the three pictures is how the total weight changes. 11,585Lbs, Then 11,695Lbs, then 11,725Lbs when it is depicting the same truck and trailer. (one of the weight changes makes sense adding the weight of the WDH but not three different ones. Thoughts?

 

[HAL9001]

A WDH definitely can improve handling and allow for a little more payload ability putting some of the tongue weight back on the trailer. The part I don't understand about the three pictures is how the total weight changes. 11,585Lbs, Then 11,695Lbs, then 11,725Lbs when it is depicting the same truck and trailer. (one of the weight changes makes sense adding the weight of the WDH but not three different ones. Thoughts?

I noticed that too. I'm a test engineer and we see those kinds of discrepancies all the time. They're generally caused by accumulations of errors, rounding numbers, measuring device tolerance inaccuracies, and subtle physics that takes complex formulas to understand. Generally, up to 10% plus or minus errors can be expected in informal tests such as this.

 

[ramblin'man]

I guess we see why they call it a Limited...

That is hilarious !

I agree the single best thing a person can do is get the CAT scale App and go weigh there truck and then truck and trailer.

That one comment alone should be sticky'd in the Towing section in CAPS.

This, of course, is absolutely true and that's exactly where the problem lies for someone looking to buy an RV.

What does someone like me do? I'm currently looking for a travel trailer that I can safely tow with my 2021 RAM 1500 Limited. My VIN came back with a Maximum Payload of 1,156 lbs and a Maximum Towing weight of 11,056 lbs, and it has a Class IV hitch with a maximum tongue weight of 1100 lbs. So, that's the best case of what I have to work with. A RAM 2500 or larger was out of the cards for me for many practical reasons.

Even travel trailers classified as "Lightweight", "Featherweight", "Ultralight", "Half-Ton Towable", etc. come with a dry tongue weight of 500-950+ lbs. And that's before the options most people want or need. And, if that wasn't bad enough, they almost always put the big external storage compartment, the propane tanks, and usually the batteries right directly over the trailer hitch.

With my truck, the tongue weight is obviously going to be the first and foremost limiting factor. So, what do I have on hand to figure out what I can purchase that will be in spec? Nothing more than a probably fudged dry tongue weight from the RV manufacturer. Everything else is pure speculation. Even if I choose one with a dry tongue weight of say only 600 lbs, I have no idea what the actual tongue weight will be once I add all the cargo. It could easily go out of spec. That depends upon many factors such as the axle position, the number of axles, the weight placement and distribution of the options and cargo, the locations of the water tanks, and any cargo weight I can try to use in the back of the trailer as a possible offset. Without actually having the trailer in my possession and experimenting, I can't realistically try out or weigh anything. I can only guess. No dealer is going to let me order a trailer, have it built, and then give it to me to experiment and weigh it before I agree to buy it. They won't even do that with the few they have left in stock. I can only make my best guess and hope for the best. Even if I try to choose one with the lowest dry tongue weight, it may in fact end up worse than one with a higher dry weight due to the configuration and weight distribution of each specific trailer. There is nothing for me to do but make my best guess.

Everyone else is in the same boat if they attempt to try and closely match a tow vehicle with a trailer. It's just hit or miss.

I'm in a slightly different boat, or trailer rather, as I need to purchase both. This is why I'm getting the camper before purchasing a truck - I have that option.
(I would of course like to stay with the 1500, but if must be I'll get a 2500 -- I feel your pain @devildodge)

I've made up an entire spreadsheet calculating out the weights and ratings of various trucks and campers but that will only get me so far. So, get the camper first and load it up with gear, water, bikes and new rack in back and take it over to a CAT scale with a rental truck to get the finals. Oh, and I'll be throwing that spare tire into the camper too - thanks @JF19Longhorn - what a great idea. I may even get a caddy for it on the rear bumper so I can play against the hitch weight if balance allows.


IS there anyway to get real RAM weight with options prior to ordering? I ask because I am having a hard time finding a truck with just the features I want without getting listings that have all the nose bleed options. I've used population density maps to find a few 'hot' zip-codes for the 250 mile search limit on the ramtrucks - find inventory site. So I'm getting a good search field of over 6,000 trucks on each.

 

[IvoryHemi]

IS there anyway to get real RAM weight with options prior to ordering? I ask because I am having a hard time finding a truck with just the features I want without getting listings that have all the nose bleed options.

Based on your signature of needing 1,450 lb payload....

TBD: Ram 1500, Payload sticker >=1,450lbs (NEEDS) | 5.7 Hemi eTorque | 3.92 Gearing | 4-Corner Air Susp | MFT | Technology Grp | Tow Grp | Trailer Brake | Adv Safety | 8.4 Uconnect |33g Tank | (WANTS, if payload allows) |CrewCab | DualPano | Rambox (now restricted for 2021) | 4x4 | Bed Ult Grp | Trailer Reverse |Trailer Cam Prep | Pwr runners | Your thoughts?

I can tell you a loaded Laramie/Longhorn/Limited Crew Cab 4x4 5’7” bed are all around 1,400 lbs payload without eTorque, MFT or Ram Box.

Payload hit for Torque is 80-90lbs, MFT is 65-75 lbs and Ram Box is 150 lbs.

 

[Dragonmaster13]

Pano and ram box take off almost 100lbs each. The list of options s on your list for a Laramie or limited would put payload below 1300lbs, and as low as 970 on a full load limited.

Best thing for you to do would be find a truck that is close and run the vin to show what the real world numbers are.