Price negotiated from MSRP

[Paultg]

My man, I'm in a similar starting situation: Trying to buy my first truck ever too and I can't believe how difficult they are making it. I'm used to pinging a dealer, getting a starting price nailed down and then we go back and forth until we have an agreed upon OTD (usually all through emails). With Ram, half the time, I can't even get a dealership to respond to the inquiry I make on their website...and when I do, their starting prices is so shrouded in mystery and rebates that I may or may not qualify for, it takes 6-7 mails just to get the actual starting price extracted from them (which is always considerably higher than their "everyman" price on the website). It's incredible...I've never struggled this much to give someone $40K+ in my life.
I just spent two hours and 8+ emails with AutoNation, just to finally nail down their price (which ended up not including a rebate they currently list on their website that is apparently no longer valid (?)). I'm about ready to quit and just walk away for awhile until this market either corrects itself or I develop more patience.

I felt the same way too. I was trying to get a deal on leftover 2019s. It’s ridiculous up here in New England. I just decided to order from Criswell in Maryland. I get the truck I want and pricing is good enough for me. Less expensive than buying local. It might not be the Feb/Mar 2020 pricing but it’s a lot less aggravation. I value my time. It’s an 8hr drive for me. Looking forward to the trip back in the new truck.

 

[Clean13]

Does anyone know anything about this "V8 Engine" retail bonus cash? This is prominently featured on most AutoNation listings, but when I dug into it with a salesman, he stated that one is no longer available for the past couple months (yet it remains advertised and part of their low price calculation nationwide)...which feels kind of, hmmm....what's the word I'm looking for? Obscured in darkness......blocking light? Can't think of the exact word...

 

[Clean13]

I felt the same way too. I was trying to get a deal on leftover 2019s. It’s ridiculous up here in New England. I just decided to order from Criswell in Maryland. I get the truck I want and pricing is good enough for me. Less expensive than buying local. It might not be the Feb/Mar 2020 pricing but it’s a lot less aggravation. I value my time. It’s an 8hr drive for me. Looking forward to the trip back in the new truck.

Yeah, I'm hoping this is more a "Covid19-unprecedented times" kind of thing and not a SOP Ram type thing. I much prefer purchasing a Ram over an F150, but I can tell you if I dip my toe in the Ford pool later today and the Ford dealership acts like they actually, y'know, wanted to sell me a truck...it would be a welcome change and difficult to dismiss regardless of my manufacturer preference.

 

[Brian7]

Guys,
I already received a response back from Koons and it is way better than here in South Florida. I am likely going to do business with them. If you want to order, they are only doing 2021s right now at 6% below invoice. Here, they told me I had to pay MSRP to order. Also, the Koons website has what they call the WOW price which is the actual sale price unlike the dealers here in Florida where the website price is a phony combination of incentives you won't qualify for. Even if I choose to ship it for $1,000, still cheaper than these dishonest dealers where I live.
-B

 

[AK103]

Guys,
I already received a response back from Koons and it is way better than here in South Florida. I am likely going to do business with them. If you want to order, they are only doing 2021s right now at 6% below invoice. Here, they told me I had to pay MSRP to order. Also, the Koons website has what they call the WOW price which is the actual sale price unlike the dealers here in Florida where the website price is a phony combination of incentives you won't qualify for. Even if I choose to ship it for $1,000, still cheaper than these dishonest dealers where I live.
-B

They have sketchy business practices. So be forewarned.
Also their "WOW Price" is factoring in all the rebates you most likely don't apply for.

 

[Paultg]

Guys,
I already received a response back from Koons and it is way better than here in South Florida. I am likely going to do business with them. If you want to order, they are only doing 2021s right now at 6% below invoice. Here, they told me I had to pay MSRP to order. Also, the Koons website has what they call the WOW price which is the actual sale price unlike the dealers here in Florida where the website price is a phony combination of incentives you won't qualify for. Even if I choose to ship it for $1,000, still cheaper than these dishonest dealers where I live.
-B

I worked with Carl at Criswell instead of Koons. They are also in same area as Koons. Be worth checking with Carl too. I got 13% off MSRP, another 1% for a membership when I pick it up, and there fee is only $300. It worked out to be cheaper option to Koons deal which is 6% off invoice + higher fee

Both dealers told me I could order a 2020 thru August. That was back on 6/17. Maybe something has changed since.

Info:
Carl Wilhelm
Viper/SRT Certified Sales Consultant
Criswell Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram
301.748.2053-mobile/text
301.590.8426-office
[email protected]

 

[Brian7]

I worked with Carl at Criswell instead of Koons. They are also in same area as Koons. Be worth checking with Carl too. I got 13% off MSRP, another 1% for a membership when I pick it up, and there fee is only $300. It worked out to be cheaper option to Koons deal.

Info:
Carl Wilhelm
Viper/SRT Certified Sales Consultant
Criswell Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram
301.748.2053-mobile/text
301.590.8426-office
[email protected]

Thanks Paul!

 

[Brian7]

They have sketchy business practices. So be forewarned.
Also their "WOW Price" is factoring in all the rebates you most likely don't apply for.

AK,
Thanks. Craig told me that would be the sale price. What sketchy business practices? Can you be specific please so I know what to look for.

 

[Paultg]

Thanks Paul!

No problem. I edited above too so check it out.

My order for a 2020 was placed on 6/19.
i didnt want to order a 2021 because I’m assuming there won’t be additional rebates or incentives on new models.

 

[SCasey89]

Thanks Paul!

Also to note with Carl at Criswell. They leave it up to you to figure out shipping of the vehicle if you’re purchasing from out of state. I believe they have companies they’ll recommend, but you’ll have to get the shipping aspect all setup (not a deal-breaker in my book).

 

[Brianziggy64]

AK103 said:
They have sketchy business practices. So be forewarned.
Also their "WOW Price" is factoring in all the rebates you most likely don't apply for.

AK,
Thanks. Craig told me that would be the sale price. What sketchy business practices? Can you be specific please so I know what to look for.

I too would like to know about “sketchy business practices.” I have been on this thread for a year now and have been researching and talking to people that have bought from Koons. I’ve not heard of one that claimed any sketchy business practices. One forum member wanted his usual deal of 8% under invoice but also wanted the 0% for 84 mo they were offering a few months back. Koons declined that deal and stated they would do 5% under invoice plus the 0% for 84 mo. That is just negotiations but he was up front about it before any order was ever placed. In fact the forum member declined that deal and never ordered through Koons. He got a better deal elsewhere. There was never any paperwork signed or agreed to by either party. But other than that story, I have not read any sketchy business practices by this dealer. In fact they have a lot of sales from forum members on here that were very happy with the deal and process of the sale. In full disclosure here, I have ordered from Koons also. It is due to arrive at the dealer this coming week. So I will report back if the deal went through as was negotiated, good or bad. But everyone I have heard from on here says he is straightforward and up front with his deals, take or leave it. My deal which he put in writing (most dealers struggle with this part for some reason), was 8% under “invoice” plus TTL and doc fee of $799, minus any rebates at time of delivery. That’s pretty straightforward if you ask me! There are currently about 5-6 of us on here that have a truck order due to come in soon to Koons. So I am sure they too will report out their experiences here. But if you know something more than that I would love to hear about it. Not trying to start any arguments here but if you know something I don’t, I want to know it before mine gets here. Thanks!

 

[Skater]

I bought my first Chevy from Koons Chevrolet in 1993 when I lived on east coast. I have never heard anything negative about any Koons dealerships. Of course, there are some who argue with a hard bargain, but sketchy, not that I am aware since 1993.

 

[Paultg]

Also to note with Carl at Criswell. They leave it up to you to figure out shipping of the vehicle if you’re purchasing from out of state. I believe they have companies they’ll recommend, but you’ll have to get the shipping aspect all setup (not a deal-breaker in my book).

I see that as a good thing to be honest even though it’s an extra step.
I sell commercial equipment and the lines I rep handle freight to my customers. When there is a problem vendor tells me to handle a freight claims which ends up being difficult since I didn’t hire the freight company to begin with.
I think legally it makes much more sense to handle that on your own for a vehicle purchase. Plus by handling it yourself you aren’t paying a dealer mark-up on the cost of the service.

 

[Brianziggy64]

I see that as a good thing to be honest even though it’s an extra step.
I sell commercial equipment and the lines I rep handle freight to my customers. When there is a problem vendor tells me to handle a freight claims which ends up being difficult since I didn’t hire the freight company to begin with.
I think legally it makes much more sense to handle that on your own for a vehicle purchase. Plus by handling it yourself you aren’t paying a dealer mark-up on the cost of the service.

Agree 100%! I would rather pick the carrier to ship my truck than let the dealer pick the cheapest and then mark it up 500%! I would gladly take on that responsibility!!

 

[AK103]

AK103 said:
They have sketchy business practices. So be forewarned.
Also their "WOW Price" is factoring in all the rebates you most likely don't apply for.

AK,
Thanks. Craig told me that would be the sale price. What sketchy business practices? Can you be specific please so I know what to look for.

I too would like to know about “sketchy business practices.” I have been on this thread for a year now and have been researching and talking to people that have bought from Koons. I’ve not heard of one that claimed any sketchy business practices. One forum member wanted his usual deal of 8% under invoice but also wanted the 0% for 84 mo they were offering a few months back. Koons declined that deal and stated they would do 5% under invoice plus the 0% for 84 mo. That is just negotiations but he was up front about it before any order was ever placed. In fact the forum member declined that deal and never ordered through Koons. He got a better deal elsewhere. There was never any paperwork signed or agreed to by either party. But other than that story, I have not read any sketchy business practices by this dealer. In fact they have a lot of sales from forum members on here that were very happy with the deal and process of the sale. In full disclosure here, I have ordered from Koons also. It is due to arrive at the dealer this coming week. So I will report back if the deal went through as was negotiated, good or bad. But everyone I have heard from on here says he is straightforward and up front with his deals, take or leave it. My deal which he put in writing (most dealers struggle with this part for some reason), was 8% under “invoice” plus TTL and doc fee of $799, minus any rebates at time of delivery. That’s pretty straightforward if you ask me! There are currently about 5-6 of us on here that have a truck order due to come in soon to Koons. So I am sure they too will report out their experiences here. But if you know something more than that I would love to hear about it. Not trying to start any arguments here but if you know something I don’t, I want to know it before mine gets here. Thanks!

The sketchy part was Craig saying there is no buyer protection on 0% 84 months.
Which was untrue.
When called out on it, Craig said "oh okay we can do 5% and buyer protection, instead of 8%"

My assumptipn is they're hoping on making money off you on the loan when 0% isn't offered anymore or banking on keeping your $1000 deposit if you decide not to take the truck when there's no good incentives months later. Either way he wins.
What other reason would they not want to abide by buyer protection on rebates and incentives when those said incentives aren't coming out of their pocket.

Just shady business practice.

 

[Brianziggy64]

The sketchy part was Craig saying there is no buyer protection on 0% 84 months.
Which was untrue.
When called out on it, Craig said "oh okay we can do 5% and buyer protection, instead of 8%"

My assumptipn is they're hoping on making money off you on the loan when 0% isn't offered anymore or banking on keeping your $1000 deposit if you decide not to take the truck when there's no good incentives months later. Either way he wins.
What other reason would they not want to abide by buyer protection on rebates and incentives when those said incentives aren't coming out of their pocket.

Just shady business practice.

Because no dealer is ”required” to abide by the incentives at time of the order even though it may be legal and allowed. His offer has always been 8% under invoice plus any rebates “at time of delivery.” He’s not forcing anyone to take his deal. That’s not being shady at all. And locking up the 0% for 84 mo at time of order is now up for debate. The forum member that initially called RAM chat to see if that could be done, was told yes indeed it could. However, his truck has now come in and been at the dealer for about a week now because the dealer (not Koons) And RAM have been arguing back and forth whether you can lock that 0% for 84 mo in at time of order. They have not allowed him to buy the truck even though he has it in writing at the time of order that he would get the 0% for 84 mo. RAM told the forum member that it was not allowed after all this time. So now after a week RAM is reluctantly gonna give it to him because the dealership and RAM “worked it out,” whatever that means. So now I’m not convinced it’s allowed. So Craig at Koons May have been accurate after all.

I’m not defending Koons, just want to make sure the facts are out there accurately. The forum member and myself have been messaging back and forth and he’s been letting me know how all this has been going down.

 

[Paultg]

His offer has always been 8% under invoice plus any rebates “at time of delivery.” He’s not forcing anyone to take his deal. That’s not being shady at all. And locking up the 0% for 84 mo at time of order is now up for debate.

I just want to clarify that is not the Koons deal anymore. They have reduced it to 6% under invoice. That was my only interaction with them and it just rubbed me the wrong way since their post on the forum here still says 8%. I’m not on here saying they are shady though. I just moved on. Would have paid more somewhere else because of it, but ended up with a better deal anyway.

With my Criswell deal I have it all in writing and know that the rebates at the time I ordered will be honored, or if better at time of delivery we can apply the better ones. I’m not doing any FCA financing though. When I spoke with FCA before ordering they encouraged me to ask the dealer if the order is protected. It made me think some dealers do this and some don’t, but I’m not sure.
And if my process with Criswell goes south for some reason I’ll be sure to share here with the facts. I’m hopefully that won’t be the case.

I’m glad the member here you mention is getting what he/she was told. I’d be pretty upset to lose any rebate/incentive while waiting for a vehicle. But what I typically see is that the finance deals are for “in stock” vehicles so I think he is getting lucky here and that the dealer probably made a mistake at the time of the order.

 

[Brian7]

Paul and BZ64,
I appreciate the insights. Personally, I have been so beaten up by these dealers here in South Florida, that I am just looking for what I have always found to look fair on paper. I am not looking to squeeze every last dollar out of the deal at this point and in fact, I have no car at the moment because of this stupidity as my leased vehicle went back. I share with my wife and daughter which is OK because work is actually 1 mile from my house. I am not looking for the 84-month financing. I will likely write a check for half the cost and finance the rest over 36 months just because that is how my mind works. I have ordered cars with BMW before and they do not lock in any incentives either, it is what it is when the car arrives. I am OK with that.
All of you guys have been unbelievably helpful and I am grateful!
-B

 

[Paultg]

Paul and BZ64,
I appreciate the insights. Personally, I have been so beaten up by these dealers here in South Florida, that I am just looking for what I have always found to look fair on paper. I am not looking to squeeze every last dollar out of the deal at this point and in fact, I have no car at the moment because of this stupidity as my leased vehicle went back. I share with my wife and daughter which is OK because work is actually 1 mile from my house. I am not looking for the 84-month financing. I will likely write a check for half the cost and finance the rest over 36 months just because that is how my mind works. I have ordered cars with BMW before and they do not lock in any incentives either, it is what it is when the car arrives. I am OK with that.
All of you guys have been unbelievably helpful and I am grateful!
-B

I felt the same way working with dealers up here. It’s why I just waved the flag and ordered from a high volume dealer. It won’t be the best deal but it will be good enough for me. I was going to wait longer (wife and I can share and I have a summer car to use now). I decide I’d really like something before winter up here so that pushed me a bit to order when I did. Good luck with your search!

 

[Brianziggy64]

I just want to clarify that is not the Koons deal anymore. They have reduced it to 6% under invoice. That was my only interaction with them and it just rubbed me the wrong way since their post on the forum here still says 8%. I’m not on here saying they are shady though. I just moved on. Would have paid more somewhere else because of it, but ended up with a better deal anyway.

With my Criswell deal I have it all in writing and know that the rebates at the time I ordered will be honored, or if better at time of delivery we can apply the better ones. I’m not doing any FCA financing though. When I spoke with FCA before ordering they encouraged me to ask the dealer if the order is protected. It made me think some dealers do this and some don’t, but I’m not sure.
And if my process with Criswell goes south for some reason I’ll be sure to share here with the facts. I’m hopefully that won’t be the case.

I’m glad the member here you mention is getting what he/she was told. I’d be pretty upset to lose any rebate/incentive while waiting for a vehicle. But what I typically see is that the finance deals are for “in stock” vehicles so I think he is getting lucky here and that the dealer probably made a mistake at the time of the order.

Yes I heard his deal of 8% went down to 6%, though I don’t know why. I suspect it is due to the low inventories that some members here are reporting and the mentality of the dealers and FCA right now of not making good deals and not offering good rebates. The question is why is Ford & GM offering decent rebates and deals but RAM is not? That’s the golden question here!

I and others that ordered from Koons got the 8% below invoice a couple of months back. I now wonder if those of us that ordered from Koons will have the 8% honored. We will soon know as the wait continues.................