Power Steering Failure! Super Dangerous

[Whois502]

Happened to me today while out of town. Made it back home okay. Strange thing was power steering kicked back on for about 3 miles while on the highway pulled the truck to the right and centered back up. Then off again. Cant really drive it in town. I opened a case with fca on drive back. See what happens next week. New year going to slow things down so im without the use of my truck for a bit. Hope the dealer can get it fixed fairly quickly.

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[Electrical]

Why is this not a recall yet?

I see people mentioning the same problem on Audi, Ford, and GM...

 

[Bram2019]

Why is this not a recall yet?

I see people mentioning the same problem on Audi, Ford, and GM...

That power steering system has been out for many years. There will be a few failures like any equipment. Hopefully no one gets into an accident because of it. The vehicle will still steer, except it will be stiff. Until we see tons of failures, I doubt you will see a recall. What makes this tricky is it is on the computer bus. A simple pin fit in a wire can cause the power assist to go out. If it was totally standalone, it would probably never fail. But because customers want the steering to react one way at high speed and another at low speed, it is on the bus to control how much assist is available.

 

[Dontfront82]

Bump

 

[mr22]

To every 2019 (DT) RAM owner who has posted in this thread,
I am a level 3 certified FCA (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, RAM) tech working in NYS. I joined this forum a few minutes ago to be able to respond to this particular thread. I was informed by a couple of sources that they had seen others talking about this issue in the forums. In the past two days I have spent quite a few hours working on two separate DT RAM trucks with identical issues to what you are all experiencing. It is an intermittent loss of electronic power steering and disabling the air suspension (if equipped). There may be other noticeable symptoms depending on the build configuration of the truck. I found the cause/issue (confirmed identical cause/issue) in both trucks I have in our shop currently. From what I have read, the actual cause of the condition is not what anyone has attempted to repair to this point. Working to notify the proper channels of what I have found.

 

[Steveo]

What was the actual cause?

 

[DSOOBY]

To every 2019 (DT) RAM owner who has posted in this thread,
I am a level 3 certified FCA (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, RAM) tech working in NYS. I joined this forum a few minutes ago to be able to respond to this particular thread. I was informed by a couple of sources that they had seen others talking about this issue in the forums. In the past two days I have spent quite a few hours working on two separate DT RAM trucks with identical issues to what you are all experiencing. It is an intermittent loss of electronic power steering and disabling the air suspension (if equipped). There may be other noticeable symptoms depending on the build configuration of the truck. I found the cause/issue (confirmed identical cause/issue) in both trucks I have in our shop currently. From what I have read, the actual cause of the condition is not what anyone has attempted to repair to this point. Working to notify the proper channels of what I have found.

I'm curious to hear what your findings were. Would you care to share?

 

[Quicker10u]

Electronic Power Steering is notorious for failing suddenly. I had this exact problem in our 2015 Honda Accord Sport. After 3 dealer visits, I ended up just trading the car in....It was a scary situation. They make it so hard to push through the electronic motor to steer the car. Glad I wasn't an elderly woman or Id have been in REAL trouble.

 

[Electrical]

Is EPS on the CAN bus?

 

[Bram2019]

Is EPS on the CAN bus?

YES

 

[Dontfront82]

I had issues with my challenger r/t on electric power steering. Pump kept leaking all the fluid 3 times. Hope truck don't do this

 

[mr22]

DSOOBY, the actual issue us that the generator is overcharging causing the EPS to shut itself down. The body ground near the battery is becoming weak internally (under the nut between the cable and stud). Outward appearance is clean and in the cases I have seen it is completely tight. What most don't see is that it is arcing at the stud area. The PCM case is also grounded there. It is sending over 10 amps and 2.0v to the PCM case. This is causing the PCM to see system voltage as 14.5 instead of what it is actually charging at (roughly 16.5v). It doesn't throw any PCM overcharge DTC's because it doesn't see it. Only certain systems see the actual system voltage. EPS being one of them.

 

[Vespid]

DSOOBY, the actual issue us that the generator is overcharging causing the EPS to shut itself down. The body ground near the battery is becoming weak internally (under the nut between the cable and stud). Outward appearance is clean and in the cases I have seen it is completely tight. What most don't see is that it is arcing at the stud area. The PCM case is also grounded there. It is sending over 10 amps and 2.0v to the PCM case. This is causing the PCM to see system voltage as 14.5 instead of what it is actually charging at (roughly 16.5v). It doesn't throw any PCM overcharge DTC's because it doesn't see it. Only certain systems see the actual system voltage. EPS being one of them.

Wow, that's.....just.....shocking. No pun intended. So the primary ground for the entire system is failing? Considering how "electronically" advanced and dependent the DT's are, to say that's a cause for concern is a huge understatement. What do you think is the cause for the arc on a tight clean connection? Surely there's a relatively easy mechanical fix for this. Actually, that's a positive that it could be a physical connection issue rather than a piece of code.

 

[Bram2019]

DSOOBY, the actual issue us that the generator is overcharging causing the EPS to shut itself down. The body ground near the battery is becoming weak internally (under the nut between the cable and stud). Outward appearance is clean and in the cases I have seen it is completely tight. What most don't see is that it is arcing at the stud area. The PCM case is also grounded there. It is sending over 10 amps and 2.0v to the PCM case. This is causing the PCM to see system voltage as 14.5 instead of what it is actually charging at (roughly 16.5v). It doesn't throw any PCM overcharge DTC's because it doesn't see it. Only certain systems see the actual system voltage. EPS being one of them.

Read my post #98. What you are describing is nothing new. If you discovered the ground being the issue in the trucks you looked at, if you would have looked through this thread you would have seen my post describing the fix for this in most cases. You would have found the problem in 5 minutes.

 

[Rich]

DSOOBY, the actual issue us that the generator is overcharging causing the EPS to shut itself down. The body ground near the battery is becoming weak internally (under the nut between the cable and stud). Outward appearance is clean and in the cases I have seen it is completely tight. What most don't see is that it is arcing at the stud area. The PCM case is also grounded there. It is sending over 10 amps and 2.0v to the PCM case. This is causing the PCM to see system voltage as 14.5 instead of what it is actually charging at (roughly 16.5v). It doesn't throw any PCM overcharge DTC's because it doesn't see it. Only certain systems see the actual system voltage. EPS being one of them.

Seems like some photos of a failing unit would clear this up. Does FCA know about this yet?

 

[202snowman]

To every 2019 (DT) RAM owner who has posted in this thread,
I am a level 3 certified FCA (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, RAM) tech working in NYS. I joined this forum a few minutes ago to be able to respond to this particular thread. I was informed by a couple of sources that they had seen others talking about this issue in the forums. In the past two days I have spent quite a few hours working on two separate DT RAM trucks with identical issues to what you are all experiencing. It is an intermittent loss of electronic power steering and disabling the air suspension (if equipped). There may be other noticeable symptoms depending on the build configuration of the truck. I found the cause/issue (confirmed identical cause/issue) in both trucks I have in our shop currently. From what I have read, the actual cause of the condition is not what anyone has attempted to repair to this point. Working to notify the proper channels of what I have found.

Where in NYS do you work?

 

[Electrical]

Read my post #98. What you are describing is nothing new. If you discovered the ground being the issue in the trucks you looked at, if you would have looked through this thread you would have seen my post describing the fix for this in most cases. You would have found the problem in 5 minutes.

Boom. Good call Bernie.

 

[mr22]

Bram2019, you are correct. That ground being an issue for most systems on these trucks is nothing new. There has been a TSB in regard to securing that ground for "stiff steering" out since late October. I apologize I missed post #98 in the middle of skimming 6 pages of this thread prior to my first post on this forum to try to give guys a little insight on what I have seen. It appears that bothered you to some extent. My bad. In any case, the real issue in these situations of overcharge goes well beyond simply cleaning this particular ground. Doing so will for sure temporarily cure the symptoms. However, a permanent fix needs to go far beyond that. This particular issue is a return circuit architectural problem, not just a clean it up once every 5k miles problem. Not getting into specifics was intentional.

 

[Electrical]

I'd hope nobody was bothered. I think we all really appreciate your input.

 

[DSOOBY]

Bram2019, you are correct. That ground being an issue for most systems on these trucks is nothing new. There has been a TSB in regard to securing that ground for "stiff steering" out since late October. I apologize I missed post #98 in the middle of skimming 6 pages of this thread prior to my first post on this forum to try to give guys a little insight on what I have seen. It appears that bothered you to some extent. My bad. In any case, the real issue in these situations of overcharge goes well beyond simply cleaning this particular ground. Doing so will for sure temporarily cure the symptoms. However, a permanent fix needs to go far beyond that. This particular issue is a return circuit architectural problem, not just a clean it up once every 5k miles problem. Not getting into specifics was intentional.

Interesting info. Have you heard of this becoming more widespread than what’s on the forums, or have you just handled and seen the two aforementioned trucks? I would imagine anything that can cut power steering needs to be seriously looked at and considered for a recall.