Please post your Tire and Loading sticker

go-ram

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There was no math I could do. I asked and kept getting the generic “Tow cap is 11340lbs, payload is 1840lbs” from 3 separate sales departments. I asked when I finally decided to build it and they said the computer is not that sophisticated to find out the true payload while taking add-ons into consideration.
Yeah, I understand, that's typical of most sales people. It's not right, but it's typical.

I think it's a load of crap that when the order is put into the dealer's ordering program, the manufacturer can't give the customer a payload estimate that's within 5% of what the ultimate ratings will be once the truck is built. For pity's sake, they know everything about every component a customer orders, how much it weighs, etc. IMO it's lame that at the time the order is input they don't provide a decent estimate of payload...even if they only guarantee the estimates to be within +/- 10%, that would be good enough to make a buying decision based on payload & towing capacities the buyer expects they'll need.

The only thing I could suggest is find one or two trucks on the lot that are fairly close to what a person will be ordering, and look at the ratings placard on those similar trucks (by similar I mean cab type, bed length, engine size, 4WD/2WD, high-end trim or entry-level trim, heavily optioned or not, panoramic roof, etc.) Not 100% accurate, but a lot closer than just being given the maximum payload and towing figures from the advertising brochures/ads for the stripped-down, max towing configuration.
 

thabiiighomie

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Yeah, I understand, that's typical of most sales people. It's not right, but it's typical.

I think it's a load of crap that when the order is put into the dealer's ordering program, the manufacturer can't give the customer a payload estimate that's within 5% of what the ultimate ratings will be once the truck is built. For pity's sake, they know everything about every component a customer orders, how much it weighs, etc. IMO it's lame that at the time the order is input they don't provide a decent estimate of payload...even if they only guarantee the estimates to be within +/- 10%, that would be good enough to make a buying decision based on payload & towing capacities the buyer expects they'll need.

The only thing I could suggest is find one or two trucks on the lot that are fairly close to what a person will be ordering, and look at the ratings placard on those similar trucks (by similar I mean cab type, bed length, engine size, 4WD/2WD, high-end trim or entry-level trim, heavily optioned or not, panoramic roof, etc.) Not 100% accurate, but a lot closer than just being given the maximum payload and towing figures from the advertising brochures/ads for the stripped-down, max towing configuration.
I regret not looking at a single door jam sticker before purchasing mine. Buy hey, it is my first truck. Lesson learned.
 

Rustydodge

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That "built in" 400 lbs is "built in" to the calculated towing capacity, not the vehicles payload, or either of the GVWR or GCWR numbers. He does not have an extra 400 lbs of capacity hidden in those numbers.
Understood, that's why i stated the 400 lbs within the sentence that begins with "the tow rating for your truck". Technically though, it is built into the GCWR as calculated per j2807.
 

riccnick

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Understood, that's why i stated the 400 lbs within the sentence that begins with "the tow rating for your truck". Technically though, it is built into the GCWR as calculated per j2807.
Yes, maybe we're saying the same thing, but I wanted to specifically say that it being included means that you have to reduce the GCVWR or GVWR by that amount to get the true calculated payload and towing numbers. It being hidden does not help your GCVWR or GVWR, it only helps the calculated tow rating. The G-numbers are static totals. Period.
 

SilverSurfer15

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It immediately went off topic by the guys trying to defend their half ton towing. See that WASNT even the point of the post above mine or mine, it’s not about what these trucks can or can’t do. It’s about how we are NOW trying to design these 1500 series trucks to do way too much. 450 horsepower, tow 12k, be as big as a suburban, get 20+ mpg, etc.

First negative is price. Second is it will never do all those things well. It’s just not possible. And the only thing that’s really happening is the price is sky rocketing and the trucks are now the size of older 2500s.

To answer your boat question without further details, you are probably fine. 8k is kind of the upper limit to gas motor towing IMO, regardless of truck. Once you step off into the 10-12k range, you are really just hurting yourself not being in a diesel.

And then depending on size and rolling resistance as well, you need to just move into a 3/4 ton diesel.

As mentioned, boats are a little different than the goober who is towing some giant travel or enclosed trailer behind a small half ton truck and talking about how awesome it is. You see them, trailer is 10ft+ longer than f150 (they seem to be the number 1 offenders) and it’s slow, can’t brake, all over road.
 

Willwork4truck

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It depends on who is suing who, and for how much. As soon as any attorneys get involved, each one will look for whatever crack in the armor they can find to either get their client off, or limit their client's liability, depending on which side of the suing they are. If anyone involved went over the manufacturer's rated weight limits, it's an easy target for an attorney. It might not happen often, I'm just saying no one wants to be that guy that gets accused of going over the manufacturer's ratings if someone else got hurt.

I agree that the insurance companies should be more diligent in educating their customers about vehicle ratings/capacities and asking pointed questions in order to limit their liability. Then again, I've never read the fine print on any of my vehicle insurance policies, maybe the insurance company has a disclaimer in there somewhere about limiting their liability in the event the insured operates the vehicle in an unsafe manner, which would broadly include overloading the vehicle.
No fine print to that effect existed when I was in that job. Things can always change, so best read contracts! There are some states that require “easy to read” laymans language.
The only claims that were even questionable back when i was working were anything using the car as a weapon, and even then the courts overrulled us. Courts can nullify clauses and basically order coverage.
Im nor giving any legal advice, just saying that “unsafe operation” is one reason you have liability coverage.
A lot of accidents are caused by drowsyness, excess speed, dangerous conditions, unsafe vehicle components, driver inattention, taking the right a way or something else that is “unsafe”. They (almost) all get paid. Even DWI wrecks, and thats one of the most obvious things a person does...
 

devildodge

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An interesting read, about payload, GVWR, GCWR, exceeding capacity and the salesman experience.
 

J-Cooz

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Mine is 1180. Limited Long bed with skid plates, big tank, basically every option. Not a ton of payload but I don't plan on towing or hauling a ton. If I could another truck I'd try and make it a bit lighter.
 

slimchance

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when i went shopping for our 1500 trks we visited at least 4 dealers and each salesperson claimed to have over 7 yrs experience selling trks ..... NONE of them understood why i wanted to open the drivers door and look for a payload sticker ... they ALL claimed to never been asked to do that before .... my problem resulted from poor planning, i should have known within 6 months of purchasing my 1500 we would be purchasing a 5th whl camper .... next time ........
 

the wanderer

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when i went shopping for our 1500 trks we visited at least 4 dealers and each salesperson claimed to have over 7 yrs experience selling trks ..... NONE of them understood why i wanted to open the drivers door and look for a payload sticker ... they ALL claimed to never been asked to do that before .... my problem resulted from poor planning, i should have known within 6 months of purchasing my 1500 we would be purchasing a 5th whl camper .... next time ........
Saleman can say the funniest things; I wanted to test drive my custom order before signing off on it when it arrived, salesman goes "Nobody ever asked to do that before." Sure.
 

DavidNJ

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No you can't.

Both of the items you mentioned actually reduce available payload (because they add weight), and mask the symptoms of an overloaded truck. And I've never seen a half ton tow-able boat trailer with a WDH hitch. The trailers aren't made for them.
I recently created another thread discussing this. It isn't black and white. https://5thgenrams.com/community/threads/what-is-really-the-right-way-to-determine-max-payload-and-towing-weight.13097/

The only serious standard is SAE J2807 which 10 years ago was only used by Toyota. That standard is only for GVCW. Tires and wheels all have load ratings, but I'm not sure they are clearly marked on the wheels. And even those aren't to an exact standard. For LT tires, the rating is by tire size. In many cases, the GAWR seems to be tire or wheel limited.

FCA has a what seems is a pretty sound procedure for setting the WDH in the owner's manual. It basically amounts to setting it to restore 2/3rds of weight transferred off of the front wheels when the hitch was connected without the WD bars connected. The 4-wheel air suspension can then level it by raising the rear and lowering the front; regular rear airbags can't do that and would have a slight rake up to the front.
 

Willwork4truck

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That's really not bad for a Limited truck with air ride (standard), skid plates, 33 gal tank, pano roof, 22" wheels AND the new gate.
Well, seems like RAM is trying to get the payload for a half-ton type truck back down to a half ton... :unsure: it was getting to be a misnomer however now with these payloads, hmm.:whistle:
 

Willwork4truck

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Mine is 1180. Limited Long bed with skid plates, big tank, basically every option. Not a ton of payload but I don't plan on towing or hauling a ton. If I could another truck I'd try and make it a bit lighter.
Sheesh... likely a beautiful people hauler, but too bad the payloads are dropping. Not to step on anyones toes however I’ve seen groups of occupants pile out of vehicles who would have used up that 1180 lbs and more...
 

Willwork4truck

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I recently created another thread discussing this. It isn't black and white. https://5thgenrams.com/community/threads/what-is-really-the-right-way-to-determine-max-payload-and-towing-weight.13097/

The only serious standard is SAE J2807 which 10 years ago was only used by Toyota. That standard is only for GVCW. Tires and wheels all have load ratings, but I'm not sure they are clearly marked on the wheels. And even those aren't to an exact standard. For LT tires, the rating is by tire size. In many cases, the GAWR seems to be tire or wheel limited.

FCA has a what seems is a pretty sound procedure for setting the WDH in the owner's manual. It basically amounts to setting it to restore 2/3rds of weight transferred off of the front wheels when the hitch was connected without the WD bars connected. The 4-wheel air suspension can then level it by raising the rear and lowering the front; regular rear airbags can't do that and would have a slight rake up to the front.
For rims heres a tire shops blurb:
“On the back side of your aluminum wheels, either on one of the spokes or near the bolt pattern, there will be a weight rating for your wheel stamped somewhere. You might have to clean it really well to be able to see it, but it will be on the reverse side of the wheel. One thing you might want to look out for is that once in a while an aluminum wheel might be stamped for two different bolt patterns, for instance, it might have a rating stamped for a 5 bolt pattern AND a different rating stamped on it for a 6 bolt pattern. Use the weight rating that matches your bolt pattern. Aluminum wheels will almost always have a weight rating stamped on the back; it varies on steel wheels.+. End of quote
 

DavidNJ

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For rims heres a tire shops blurb:
“On the back side of your aluminum wheels, either on one of the spokes or near the bolt pattern, there will be a weight rating for your wheel stamped somewhere. You might have to clean it really well to be able to see it, but it will be on the reverse side of the wheel. One thing you might want to look out for is that once in a while an aluminum wheel might be stamped for two different bolt patterns, for instance, it might have a rating stamped for a 5 bolt pattern AND a different rating stamped on it for a 6 bolt pattern. Use the weight rating that matches your bolt pattern. Aluminum wheels will almost always have a weight rating stamped on the back; it varies on steel wheels.+. End of quote
But what are the OE Ram wheels? Where a weighed trailer will have known and adjustable weights on each axle, for an arbitrary payload they might not know. That may be the reason the GVWR is 10% less than the combined GAWRs. And they may have used softer springs to make it a pickup with a passenger car ride. My hope was to improve on my Infiniti QX56, but its 1323 payload rating is higher than many of Ram 1500s. It's 275/60-20 tires are bigger also.
 

DavidNJ

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Well, seems like RAM is trying to get the payload for a half-ton type truck back down to a half ton... :unsure: it was getting to be a misnomer however now with these payloads, hmm.:whistle:
It's not just Ram, it's on all the pickup and big SUV forums. I've seen GMC/Chevy stuff talking about independent front suspension on their 2500s. The big catch there is those are 8000lb trucks with 6.6-liter gas engines. The diesel is a $10k option. But a loaded gas 2500HD Denali is less than a loaded Limited. It's just too big for a daily driver unless the owner lives in farm/ranch country.
 

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