Please post your Tire and Loading sticker

[DavidNJ]

I'm not sure which engine you have, but I'm guessing it's the 5.7 Hemi. If you have 500lbs of passengers, cargo, and towing equipment (hitch, etc.) in your truck, given your sticker, that leaves you about 8,700lbs of towing capacity, assuming a 13% tongue weight on your trailer. You'll want a WDH at that point too, and I'm not sure what those setups weigh, but that factors into your cargo/pass/equip figure as well. For piece of mind and to have a big of wiggle room, you'll want to stick to a 7,500lb or lighter trailer.

That's my educated guesswork and experience boiled down for the Internet and should not be construed in any way as an admission of liability should something go wrong.

-John

Remember, the WDH is also transferring weight to the trailer axle reducing tongue weight . That can be as much is 100 to 200 pounds with a heavy trailer .

 

[Cross88]

DraKhen99, thank you for your response, it is much appreciated. I do have a family (wife, 2 kids and 3 dogs), so I definitely have to keep an eye on my cargo (payload numbers). I also would for sure get a nice WDH. Question though, cant I disperse my cargo weight some and put more stuff in the trailer (in proper positions) to avoid diminishing my payload numbers but at the same time keeping my tongue weight between 10-13%? On a side note, its kind of crazy how Ram online says a crewcab 2wd hemi with 3.92 has a max of 11,500lbs.

 

[DraKhen99]

Remember, the WDH is also transferring weight to the trailer axle reducing tongue weight . That can be as much is 100 to 200 pounds with a heavy trailer .

Thanks for the reminder! My 7,000lb GVWR enclosed V-nose trailer is never loaded past 5,000lbs total weight (it's ~2,300lbs empty), so I don't have or use a WDH.

DraKhen99, thank you for your response, it is much appreciated. I do have a family (wife, 2 kids and 3 dogs), so I definitely have to keep an eye on my cargo (payload numbers). I also would for sure get a nice WDH. Question though, cant I disperse my cargo weight some and put more stuff in the trailer (in proper positions) to avoid diminishing my payload numbers but at the same time keeping my tongue weight between 10-13%? On a side note, its kind of crazy how Ram online says a crewcab 2wd hemi with 3.92 has a max of 11,500lbs.

Yeah, you can put some stuff in the trailer, so long as you don't exceed ITS GVWR

I always like a 20-25% margin between utilization and capacity, so even with a rating of 11,500 (my truck, with eTorque, has a 11,250lb tow capacity, according to RAM), I wouldn't go much past 8,500lbs. FWIW, while my truck may have a tow capacity of 11,250lb, my payload is only 1,320lbs, so with me, my wife, and our kids in the truck, my max towing is only around 7,500lbs before I've maxxed out my payload (also assuming 13% tongue weight).

-John

 

[Cross88]

Yeah, you can put some stuff in the trailer, so long as you don't exceed ITS GVWR

I always like a 20-25% margin between utilization and capacity, so even with a rating of 11,500 (my truck, with eTorque, has a 11,250lb tow capacity, according to RAM), I wouldn't go much past 8,500lbs. FWIW, while my truck may have a tow capacity of 11,250lb, my payload is only 1,320lbs, so with me, my wife, and our kids in the truck, my max towing is only around 7,500lbs before I've maxxed out my payload (also assuming 13% tongue weight).

-John
[/QUOTE]

Oo yes of course. I myself am on that same mindset, especially when it comes to the safety of my family. I definitely would not push the envelope on capacity while my whole family is in the truck with me. Thanks again.

 

[DavidNJ]

Thanks for the reminder! My 7,000lb GVWR enclosed V-nose trailer is never loaded past 5,000lbs total weight (it's ~2,300lbs empty), so I don't have or use a WDH.



Yeah, you can put some stuff in the trailer, so long as you don't exceed ITS GVWR

I always like a 20-25% margin between utilization and capacity, so even with a rating of 11,500 (my truck, with eTorque, has a 11,250lb tow capacity, according to RAM), I wouldn't go much past 8,500lbs. FWIW, while my truck may have a tow capacity of 11,250lb, my payload is only 1,320lbs, so with me, my wife, and our kids in the truck, my max towing is only around 7,500lbs before I've maxxed out my payload (also assuming 13% tongue weight).

-John

And what is it on the scale? The WDH could take 100+ pounds off the disconnected tongue weight.

 

[DraKhen99]

And what is it on the scale? The WDH could take 100+ pounds off the disconnected tongue weight.

I haven't put my truck or trailer on a scale, just going by mfg-claimed weights.

You're right, as is another poster, that WDH can change tongue weight. If the OP is going to tow something heavy, they need to do their due diligence and have everything weighed.

-John

 

[DavidNJ]

I haven't put my truck or trailer on a scale, just going by mfg-claimed weights.

You're right, as is another poster, that WDH can change tongue weight. If the OP is going to tow something heavy, they need to do their due diligence and have everything weighed.

-John

I just started another thread on the WDH. It always moves weight to the trailer axle(s). It also increases the force on the ball itself. If so, where did the 10%-15% static tongue weight recommendation come from? One widely quoted 2008 SAE paper describes it as "general towing guidelines that the tongue weight should be ~10 – 15% of the total trailer weight." It seems to have been cut from whole cloth. The SAE standard for hitches doesn't mention it. Still searching.

If I'm correct and it's bogus for WDH, the whole issue of payload for towing goes away. With WDH, my initial observations (which haven't covered the full range of trailer weights and sizes, yet) is that 10% on the ball with WDH means 5.5%-6% static.

 

[devildodge]

@DavidNJ (to see if we are thinking along the same lines) I agree. Tongue weight is a number that doesn't need to exist(and payload)...if you can follow me.

We will start with a properly setup truck at a CAT scale. Steer axle, drive axle, trailer axle weights will help us determine where the weight is positioned. (As you can see...no given number for tongue weight)

Front GAWR, Rear GAWR, trailer GVWR and trucks GCWR.

So we will go with what we know.

GCWR on a 4x4 Hemi with 3.92 gears (Crew 5'7 for this sample) is 17000. This is the max combined weight that a configured RAM 1500 can safely control according to SAE J2807.

GAWR is front 3900 and rear 4100 for a combined 8000 lbs. Yes I know, 900 lbs more than GVWR of 7100.

So at max weight of 8000 lbs on the drive and steer axle that leaves 9000lbs that can go on the trailer axle.

And then this is where it gets confusing, or interesting. Because this is where your hitch takes weight off of the steer and moves it to the drive axle from taking weight from the trailer.

So this is where you realize you can not load the truck to 8000 lbs and have a 9000 lbs trailer. The truck weight and cargo is not ever going to be evenly distributed over steer and drive axle.

So now let's go to base weights
Front axle base is 3093 and rear is 2176.

The base weight is 5269...which we know is absolutely not the truck most people buy.

So now, How do we figure what weight was taken away from the front when trailer was hitched. At the CAT scale you get 3 weights. Truck, truck and trailer without WDH hooked up and truck trailer with WDH hooked up.

Still no tongue weight given, but then you do the math.

Truck weight without trailer from truck with trailer, that gives you your tongue weight.

And this is where the 10 to 15% comes in, as the towers have decided...that is what makes the travel trailer tow the best. The difference must be in that range.

So, since you will be driving with the truck hooked up to tow, drive onto the scale with wdh hooked up. Drive off unhook trailer drive back on. Drive off hook up trailer leave WDH unhooked drive back on. (Or however you want to make the order)

Figure your numbers...and remember, anything rear of the drive axle will be considered tongue weight.

To do final setup, the idea is to return the extra weight from the drive axle back to the steer axle(which as stated also puts some back to the trailer.)(and moving cargo from rear of drive axle to the front of, does the same)

This is where your other weight ratings come in also, the reciever has a rating, the hitch has one and so does the ball...one must not be under the other. Usually, the hitch will be the least, then the ball and then the reciever should be the most...although if they all exceed the final weight any one can be the highest. For my 2015 HD my current setup rates at 13000 for the hitch, 15000 for the ball and 18000 for the reciever. (Or something close to those numbers)

So with the proper hitching equipment I believe the ratings are right at 1200 tongue 12000 trailer (I will update this with the correct numbers when I get a chance...but that is close) they say to use a WDH for a tongue weight over 500.

So, now we need to look at a CAT scale ticket with these 3 scenarios. There are plenty posted here, but not sure if all 3 conditions are met.

Until I can find these, let me know if you agree, disagree, or if I just stated a bunch of bull.

 

[DraKhen99]

^^^ and this folks, is why I don't plan to tow more than 5,000lbs. Because I don't like doing math, and I have no place to store a WDH.

Also, thank you devildodge for boiling it down into layman's terms and making it understandable. There's a lot of calculation one *should* do before towing a trailer, but most people "just send it!" as the current meme says.

FWIW, I tried explaining it in more simple terms where a WDH is not involved, because that just seemed easier and answers 80% of towing questions.

-John

 

[pgienger]

So ... Anyone have any guesses on what the new ecodiesel is going to end up with for payload? I have not looked at a 4th gen for comparison, so I have no prior knowledge. Unlike HDs, the V6 seems smaller than the Hemi, to possibly make it a wash once you put the DEF kit on... At least in my mind.

 

[DavidNJ]

There are a few misconceptions. I've had some interesting calls, it appears my early hypothesis was correct.

First, with a weight distributing hitch there is more weight on the trailer axle, more weight on the truck front axle, less weight on the truck rear axle, and less weight on the truck overall. This is because the weight transferred to the trailer axle is less weight on the truck. The force going through the ball is higher. It can be double what it would be without the WDH. This is clear when you realize the extra force on the trailer from the WD bars. The tension on those bars will generally equal or exceed the tongue weight.

So, just adding the WD bars, staying at 10% tongue weight, reduces the weight transferred to the truck. On a 5000# trailer with 150" between the ball and axles with 30" WD bars that could move 110# of the 500# tongue weight to the trailer axle. And the front wheels would lose 50# instead of 250#. The rear wheels would have over 300# less weight on them.

Which brings up the next issue: who came up with 10% tongue weight anyway? Moses didn't bring it down from Mt. Sinai. Madison didn't put it in the Constitution. Holds the trailer on the ball? That force is nearly double with a WDH. To get it back to 10% would require less than 6% static tongue weight. Lateral stability? then why is the same for 30' car hauler, a 20' flat trailer with a bulldozer, and 5000 boat trailer? The aerodynamic profile, the distance from trailer axle to the ball, the tow vehicle weight and wheelbase, etc. make no difference?

I've had the opportunity to talk to trailer and hitch manufacturers. To look at SAE papers. No one has any analysis to justify it. Vaguely, if it is too light the rear wheels may not have enough traction on a wet roadway. But never defined, and likely with a non-WD hitch. Maybe, after all, they can be powering a GCW that is more than twice the truck's own GVW.

A side benefit is lower tongue weight would require less tension in the WD bars resulting in better ride and handling. The immediate benefit is more capacity. For the many who were disappointed in their Rams towing ability because of limited payload, this can remove the issue.

A loaded Limited, payload 1100#, could have 600# of people and cargo and still tow a 10,000# trailer, 16,600# GCW, and not exceed GVWR or front/rear GAWR. The front wheels would actually have less weight than without the trailer, the rear wheels under 3500#, over 600# spare capacity. Static tongue weight of 5.5%, 550#, but with over 1000# of force going through the ball.

I'll have a spreadsheet available next week, and will do sensitivity analyses on trailer ball-to-axle distance, truck wheelbase, trailer weight, and WDH bar length.

So...who is going to be the test subject and try using a WDH with different static tongue weights below 10%?

 

[jdefoe0424]

Wow, seems like the thread has gotten a bit off course. But good information and food for thought when I finally buy a TT.
Anywho, here are my stickers.
Cab: Crew
Bed: 6'4"
Drive: 4x4
Wheels: 20
Rear gear: 3.92
Engine: Hemi
Gallon tank: 26
Group: level 1
Option: Anti-spin

 

[fenix]

Fully loaded Rebel 2020:

Crew Cab 4x4 5.7L V8 HEMI® MDS VVT eTorque Engine Safety and Convenience Group Trailer–Tow Group Bed Utility Group Rebel 12 Rebel Level 2 Equipment Group Dual–Pane Panoramic Sunroof Black Tubular Side–Steps Rear Wheelhouse Liners Multi–Function Tailgate 33–Gallon Fuel Tank Air Suspension, 4–Corner Blind–Spot and Cross–Path Detection RamBox® Cargo Management System Spray–in Bedliner

GVWR: 7100 lbs GFAWR: 3900 lbs GRAWR: 4100 lbs Max Payload: 1035 lbs

 

[SpeedyV]

Fully loaded Rebel 2020:

Crew Cab 4x4 5.7L V8 HEMI® MDS VVT eTorque Engine Safety and Convenience Group Trailer–Tow Group Bed Utility Group Rebel 12 Rebel Level 2 Equipment Group Dual–Pane Panoramic Sunroof Black Tubular Side–Steps Rear Wheelhouse Liners Multi–Function Tailgate 33–Gallon Fuel Tank Air Suspension, 4–Corner Blind–Spot and Cross–Path Detection RamBox® Cargo Management System Spray–in Bedliner

GVWR: 7100 lbs GFAWR: 3900 lbs GRAWR: 4100 lbs Max Payload: 1035 lbs

Wow! How about that, @devildodge? A Rebel with a worse payload rating than the heaviest Longhorn or Limited on this forum. Who’d have thought that was even possible?! You’re the new “barely a 1/2-ton” champion

(P.S. I’m sure it’s the new tailgate that did the job...that bad boy must be heavy!)

 

[fenix]

It's not actually mine, just doing research on Rebels found on lots near me. I want to know the numbers for the same configuration, minus the Bedliner and Tailgate and with the EcoDiesel instead. I'm guessing that would land somewhere at 1200-1300 lbs max payload.

 

[DraKhen99]

I saw a 2020 Limited on the lot this morning and it was very similar to mine, except it had the 20" wheels and the multifunction tailgate, whereas my truck has the 22" wheels and no MFT.

Payload sticker read 1,177lbs (sorry, didn't get a pic). I was shocked that it was so low with the only meaningful change being the MFT.

-John

 

[Dawn]

@ FIRECADET613, Yes you are exactly correct.
If anyone has a picture of the Yellow Cargo sticker on a 2019 Ram 1500 Limited 4X4 with the 3.92 rear end I would appreciate it.

If anyone is interested

The picture from my first post is from Vin # 1C6RREHTXKN502598
Which is a
RAM 1500 LIMITED CREW CAB 4X2Engine: 5.7–Liter V8 HEMI® MDS VVT Engine Transmission: 8–Speed Automatic 8HP75 Transmission3.21 Rear Axle Ratio

Trailer–Tow Group
Bed Utility Group
Level 1 Equipment Group
Dual–Pane Panoramic Sunroof

According to the chart posted by FCA max payload is 1840
Yellow Sticker 1417

I thought it would be interesting for others to post their numbers.
Maybe it isn't

My 2500 diesel was advertised with 3200lb payload. Then according to my VIN on Mopar, dropped to 2310. Door sticker says 1976. Don't bother calling Ram. They won't give you the true info. I had to file complaints with the FTC and department of motor vehicles to actually get their attention.

 

[Dawn]

I saw a 2020 Limited on the lot this morning and it was very similar to mine, except it had the 20" wheels and the multifunction tailgate, whereas my truck has the 22" wheels and no MFT.

Payload sticker read 1,177lbs (sorry, didn't get a pic). I was shocked that it was so low with the only meaningful change being the MFT.

-John

And now I know that I should have looked at the stickers instead of the false numbers they advertise.

 

[Dawn]

Yeah, you can put some stuff in the trailer, so long as you don't exceed ITS GVWR

I always like a 20-25% margin between utilization and capacity, so even with a rating of 11,500 (my truck, with eTorque, has a 11,250lb tow capacity, according to RAM), I wouldn't go much past 8,500lbs. FWIW, while my truck may have a tow capacity of 11,250lb, my payload is only 1,320lbs, so with me, my wife, and our kids in the truck, my max towing is only around 7,500lbs before I've maxxed out my payload (also assuming 13% tongue weight).

-John

Oo yes of course. I myself am on that same mindset, especially when it comes to the safety of my family. I definitely would not push the envelope on capacity while my whole family is in the truck with me. Thanks again.
[/QUOTE]
Ram doesn't care about you or your family. That's why they fluff their numbers. A lot of Ram owners are quickly discovering that they don't have the towing and payload that they thought they had.

 

[SzymiRam@2019]

2019 Ram Sport CC 6’4” bed, 3.92
How much I can actually tow with those numbers ?