Please post your Tire and Loading sticker

the wanderer

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i looked at a 2018 Ram 2500 Power Wagon yesterday ... the door payload sticker was 1340 #s !!!!
Power Wagon's are built for off roading and are a different beast; neither a true 2500, nor a lightweight 1500, the're in a class of their own. You can't really tow or haul with them any more than you can with a 1500, that suspension is the reason, it's much more soft and squishy than a normal 2500 to handle better off road.
 

thabiiighomie

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Amen to that last post, why are we towing 10-12k lbs with 1500 trucks? Who wanted that?

The answer should be no one. Buy a 2500 diesel and realize it’s really the only answer/solution to that.
I suppose I do not know much about trucks with this being my first one, so I would like to chime in here. Was I foolish to purchase a 1500 4x4 3.92 with the purpose of hauling a 7,800 pound boat that essentially maxes out my payload with me and one passenger? It is exactly what I need for 700 mile back and forth trips from Cincinnati to Detroit.
 

Willwork4truck

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Amen to that last post, why are we towing 10-12k lbs with 1500 trucks? Who wanted that?

The answer should be no one. Buy a 2500 diesel and realize it’s really the only answer/solution to that.
Agree. While I get a driver/owner wanting to tow their big 30’ trailer behind the comfy ride 1500 daily driver, there’s a limit for safety. The tail starts wagging the dog all too often.
 

Willwork4truck

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I suppose I do not know much about trucks with this being my first one, so I would like to chime in here. Was I foolish to purchase a 1500 4x4 3.92 with the purpose of hauling a 7,800 pound boat that essentially maxes out my payload with me and one passenger? It is exactly what I need for 700 mile back and forth trips from Cincinnati to Detroit.
Not foolish (stay off rv trailer forums though), fortunately for you a boat doesnt have the frontal surface area that a traditional trailer does, therefore it has less drag (the boat). Weight-wise your drivetrain will pull it no problem. If the trailer brakes are set up properly and you have a well set up WD hitch (lots of ifs), then you can pull it, stop it and deal with it jus fine.
Yeah payload is low however with air bags or your good WD hitch you can occasionally carry more than the payload sticker says to.
All legal and other statements aside, you’ll be ok.
 
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riccnick

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with air bags or your good WD hitch you can occasionally carry more than the payload sticker says to.
No you can't.

Both of the items you mentioned actually reduce available payload (because they add weight), and mask the symptoms of an overloaded truck. And I've never seen a half ton tow-able boat trailer with a WDH hitch. The trailers aren't made for them.
 

thabiiighomie

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No you can't.

Both of the items you mentioned actually reduce available payload (because they add weight), and mask the symptoms of an overloaded truck. And I've never seen a half ton tow-able boat trailer with a WDH hitch. The trailers aren't made for them.
I just read my door jam sticker. Payload 1,447. That sucks! Online specs say 1,840. I don’t have air suspension. Seems crazy. With 15% of a 7,800 lbs boat (boat, trailer and fuel) sitting on the tongue, that leaves me with basically my body weight to fill the cabin. How stupid.
 

Zeronet

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I just read my door jam sticker. Payload 1,447. That sucks! Online specs say 1,840. I don’t have air suspension. Seems crazy. With 15% of a 7,800 lbs boat (boat, trailer and fuel) sitting on the tongue, that leaves me with basically my body weight to fill the cabin. How stupid.
Yes the weight of all that optional equipment eats into available payload. The advertised payloads are very deceiving. Lots of info on this topic in the Towing section.

Do you have a CAT scale nearby where you can weigh your rig (truck and boat)? At least if you get it weighed you will know where you stand.
 

Rustydodge

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I suppose I do not know much about trucks with this being my first one, so I would like to chime in here. Was I foolish to purchase a 1500 4x4 3.92 with the purpose of hauling a 7,800 pound boat that essentially maxes out my payload with me and one passenger? It is exactly what I need for 700 mile back and forth trips from Cincinnati to Detroit.
I just read my door jam sticker. Payload 1,447. That sucks! Online specs say 1,840. I don’t have air suspension. Seems crazy. With 15% of a 7,800 lbs boat (boat, trailer and fuel) sitting on the tongue, that leaves me with basically my body weight to fill the cabin. How stupid.
You weren't foolish, and you're just fine. The tow rating for your truck (and the GCWR established based on J2807) has essentially 400 lbs of payload built in (300 for passengers, 100 for optional equipment). The payload rating for your truck is somewhat conservative, based on your GVWR minus curb weight (truck with standard equipment full of fluids). Your GVWR was established by the manufacture, and you can look at your GAWRs (which added together are greater than your GVWR) to see how conservative those were.

For example, your front GAWR = 3900, rear = 4100, and GVWR = 7100. So there's 900lbs built in right there. And how much safety factor do each axles have?

All that to say that payload ratings are conservative. There are factors of safety in your GAWR and GVWR and SAE J2807 was behind your GCWR. Per the book just stay under those three numbers (GAWR, GVWR, and GCWR) and your good. Not per the book, going stightly over payload from time to time is no big deal

Edit: You mentioned 15% for your 7800 lb boat scenario. Typical boats and trailer are light in the tongue, and fuel is not often in the front of the boat. 10% is a more accurate number. We always tow our boats low on fuel, and fill up the boat just before heading to the ramp. So your boat and trailer are only taking up about 1/2 of your available 1400+ payload as equipped.
 
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Willwork4truck

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I
You weren't foolish, and you're just fine. The tow rating for your truck (and the GCWR established based on J2807) has essentially 400 lbs of payload built in (300 for passengers, 100 for optional equipment). The payload rating for your truck is somewhat conservative, based on your GVWR minus curb weight (truck with standard equipment full of fluids). Your GVWR was established by the manufacture, and you can look at your GAWRs (which added together are greater than your GVWR) to see how conservative those were.

For example, your front GAWR = 3900, rear = 4100, and GVWR = 7100. So there's 900lbs built in right there. And how much safety factor do each axles have?

All that to say that payload ratings are conservative. There are factors of safety in your GAWR and GVWR and SAE J2807 was behind your GCWR. Per the book just stay under those three numbers (GAWR, GVWR, and GCWR) and your good. Not per the book, going stightly over payload from time to time is no big deal

Edit: You mentioned 15% for your 7800 lb boat scenario. Typical boats and trailer are light in the tongue, and fuel is not often in the front of the boat. 10% is a more accurate number. We always tow our boats low on fuel, and fill up the boat just before heading to the ramp. So your boat and trailer are only taking up about 1/2 of your available 1400+ payload as equipped.
I will defer to Rusty on boats as Ive never towed a boat, merely 2 horse, 4 horse, 24’ and 28’ wood framed travel trailers. If boat trailers don't have a WD hitch then my bad as all my horse and travel trailers did. So my experience with towing has been limited to that. Now as far as payload goes, my experience has been with trucks from 1969 to 1994, with only the 2015 F150 as a newer half ton. I am not a metallurgist so the steel used in the 70’s through 90’s may not be of the same high tensile strength and load capacity as todays. No idea.
Ive always been in the “have a bigger truck than you need” camp until I quit towing. I used to think the guys towing trailers with excessive tongue weight and big frontal areas were taking unneccesary chances, yet they “all” seemed to have somehow survived. Guess theres either engineered in safety factors or everyone should buy lottery tickets...
 
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thabiiighomie

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You weren't foolish, and you're just fine. The tow rating for your truck (and the GCWR established based on J2807) has essentially 400 lbs of payload built in (300 for passengers, 100 for optional equipment). The payload rating for your truck is somewhat conservative, based on your GVWR minus curb weight (truck with standard equipment full of fluids). Your GVWR was established by the manufacture, and you can look at your GAWRs (which added together are greater than your GVWR) to see how conservative those were.

For example, your front GAWR = 3900, rear = 4100, and GVWR = 7100. So there's 900lbs built in right there. And how much safety factor do each axles have?

All that to say that payload ratings are conservative. There are factors of safety in your GAWR and GVWR and SAE J2807 was behind your GCWR. Per the book just stay under those three numbers (GAWR, GVWR, and GCWR) and your good. Not per the book, going stightly over payload from time to time is no big deal

Edit: You mentioned 15% for your 7800 lb boat scenario. Typical boats and trailer are light in the tongue, and fuel is not often in the front of the boat. 10% is a more accurate number. We always tow our boats low on fuel, and fill up the boat just before heading to the ramp. So your boat and trailer are only taking up about 1/2 of your available 1400+ payload as equipped.
I need you as a neighbor lol. Move to Cleves, OH. But yeah, never will I own a travel trailer of any sort. Only boats. Speed boats max out at 27’/7,800 lbs. (Other than stoves and fridges — since I am a landlord.) That is the most I will ever be towing, besides maybe a pontoon, which is much lighter.

I was so bummed when I read 1,400 ish payload because I counted on 1,800 for 15% of 7,800, my 250 lbs self, 160 lbs for the gf, and a little extra for luggage for our trips to Detroit for the lakes. You just gave me some much needed peace of mind! Thank you.
 

Willwork4truck

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I need you as a neighbor lol. Move to Cleves, OH. But yeah, never will I own a travel trailer of any sort. Only boats. Speed boats max out at 27’/7,800 lbs. (Other than stoves and fridges — since I am a landlord.) That is the most I will ever be towing, besides maybe a pontoon, which is much lighter.

I was so bummed when I read 1,400 ish payload because I counted on 1,800 for 15% of 7,800, my 250 lbs self, 160 lbs for the gf, and a little extra for luggage for our trips to Detroit for the lakes. You just gave me some much needed peace of mind! Thank you.
Shoot, if you want to be bummed, don’t post here, its pretty cool. Go to the rv forums and post the same question, or maybe “The Hull Truth” boat forum. You’ll likely get flamed on the rv forums by the “You need a 450/4500 to tow a landscape trailer” crowd. Been on one for years, it’s really vicious at times. There’s the srw vs drw fights, then the gas vs diesel fights, then the “can my truck pull this trailer” or “can my truck carry this camper ”threads. (The latter gets the air bag and Timbren crowds all riled up.)
Actually, some of the “can my truck tow this” threads are actually pretty lame as for a long time now people had the truck they had (usually a CC 1/2 ton) and then went to the rv sales place then were told “28-30’, sure thing buckaroo...”.
Only lately has there been more attention paid to the actual gcvwr’s and the ccc (cargo carrying capacity) of trailers. Oh, and the 2’ ball hitch vs 2 5/16” threads can be lively as well.
But, as usual I digress.
Remember, it’s only legal to stay within your yellow sticker. Anyone who puts their professional liability on the line and tells you different is asking for it. Now ask 50 or more % of the crowd in most any rv park and you’ll get a different answer, as there’s what you should do and what you usually do...
 

Zeronet

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Remember, it’s only legal to stay within your yellow sticker. Anyone who puts their professional liability on the line and tells you different is asking for it. Now ask 50 or more % of the crowd in most any rv park and you’ll get a different answer, as there’s what you should do and what you usually do...
So right! I’ve seen some pretty big campers and even 5th wheels being towed into campgrounds by half tons. Then they’re loaded with 2 adults, 2 teens, bikes in the bed, firewood... If it fits they bring it.

They don’t even know what a payload sticker or GVWR is.
 

Willwork4truck

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How true. I’m not at all recommending the practice, nor poo-pooing those that have replied and are concerned.
I was one of those for years, smug in the knowledge that my HD 3/4 orSRW 1 ton could tow/haul most anything, and within reason they were able to (slowly, little hp/tq in those days). Even I was overloaded at times, usually from hauling too much weight.

I learned my lesson by blowing out 2 old load range D truck tires driving 65 mph with a face cord of green pine, that cost me about $300 due to the extra 1K over what the tires were rated for, and the sidewall cracks.
That’s probably where guys are pushing it today, too many P rated tires on 20’s and 22’s that are not made for payload... you should have AT’s on, but they are hard to find in the widths that our rims are. Hard or expensive.

Overloading eventually brings on component failures and safety issues (braking and sway), and carrying “precious cargo” should give one pause, yet when you’ve dropped 40 -50 large on a truck, you want to use it for everything (justifies the purchase, right).
 

riccnick

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I just read my door jam sticker. Payload 1,447. That sucks! Online specs say 1,840. I don’t have air suspension. Seems crazy. With 15% of a 7,800 lbs boat (boat, trailer and fuel) sitting on the tongue, that leaves me with basically my body weight to fill the cabin. How stupid.
You have the pano roof, 33 gal tank, and ramoboxes, that's a heavy truck right there. What did you want for a half ton payload? Mine is 1450 as well, same as my last Tundra, but with a bigger truck with more options. I knew what I was getting in to though...

You weren't foolish, and you're just fine. The tow rating for your truck (and the GCWR established based on J2807) has essentially 400 lbs of payload built in (300 for passengers, 100 for optional equipment).
That "built in" 400 lbs is "built in" to the calculated towing capacity, not the vehicles payload, or either of the GVWR or GCWR numbers. He does not have an extra 400 lbs of capacity hidden in those numbers.
 

Willwork4truck

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You can choose to either follow the “yellow sticker” or not, if you are say withing 10% I’d think it would be fine, as long as the weakest link (probably tires) is ok with the rear axle weight.
I’ll leave the “payload wars” to others, now mine is a grocery getter so I don’t have a dog in this hunt.
Good luck to you on configuring your truck to tow what you need/want it to tow, remember that excessive speed likely causes way more issues and wrecks than slightly overloaded payloads do.
 

go-ram

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You can choose to either follow the “yellow sticker” or not, if you are say withing 10% I’d think it would be fine, as long as the weakest link (probably tires) is ok with the rear axle weight.
I’ll leave the “payload wars” to others, now mine is a grocery getter so I don’t have a dog in this hunt.
Good luck to you on configuring your truck to tow what you need/want it to tow, remember that excessive speed likely causes way more issues and wrecks than slightly overloaded payloads do.
I have no dog in this hunt either, and this was already mentioned above, but it's worth repeating: It is a fact that it is technically illegal to exceed ANY of the manufacturer's weight ratings.

I realize that no matter if one is at fault in a vehicle accident or not, chances are you'll get sued by someone for something. That said, if any party (be it law enforcement/insurance companies/or especially the attorneys of any of the parties involved) can prove that your vehicle exceeded manufacturer's ratings in any category, you have definitely opened yourself up for greater liability. Yes, the vehicles likely do have some percentage of margin built in to the ratings shown on the vehicle's placard. But the equipment end of it is only a single factor in one's decision, and all too often people forget about unintended consequences, and the liability incurred if/when something unplanned does happen.

If someone didn't have the full story, didn't do their research, or just believed the sales person without questioning/researching and ended up buying a tow vehicle that is not up to the task, then that's on them (or possibly partly on the sales person or dealership itself, if they made incorrect or misleading statements). But as the song goes "you can't always get what you want", and if a person wants to tow & haul more than their vehicle is rated for, my two-cents worth of advice is to trade it in for a more appropriate, right-sized vehicle for the load one wants to haul/tow. The math is easy, one just has to do their due-diligence.
 
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Willwork4truck

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I have no dog in this hunt either, and this was already mentioned above, but it's worth repeating: It is a fact that it is technically illegal to exceed ANY of the manufacturer's weight ratings.

I realize that no matter if one is at fault in a vehicle accident or not, chances are you'll get sued by someone for something. That said, if any party (be it law enforcement/insurance companies/or especially the attorneys of any of the parties involved) can prove that your vehicle exceeded manufacturer's ratings in any category, you have definitely opened yourself up for greater liability. Yes, the vehicles likely do have some percentage of margin built in to the ratings shown on the vehicle's placard. But the equipment end of it is only a single factor in one's decision, and all too often people forget about unintended consequences, and the liability incurred if/when something unplanned does happen.

If someone didn't have the full story, didn't do their research, or just believed the sales person without questioning/researching and ended up buying a tow vehicle that is not up to the task, then that's on them (or possibly partly on the sales person or dealership itself, if they made incorrect or misleading statements). But as the song goes "you can't always get what you want", and if a person wants to tow & haul more than their vehicle is rated for, my two-cents worth of advice is to trade it in for a more appropriate, right-sized vehicle for the load one wants to haul/tow. The math is easy, one just has to do their due-diligence.
While I didn't find your statement about insurance liability to be accurate during the 9 years I was a bodily injury claims adjuster, who knows things may have changed in the lawsuit happy world since 1992.
While I do agree and always personally have towed or hauled a truck camper with more than enough truck, its interesting that no agent I have ever known has asked me about gcvwr, proper hitch ratings, safety chains, payload, experience or license class. They are very nterested in my credit score though... lol like that has much to do with my rear axle weight or pin weight on the 5th wheel. Who knows, maybe there is a correlation?
 

thabiiighomie

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You have the pano roof, 33 gal tank, and ramoboxes, that's a heavy truck right there. What did you want for a half ton payload? Mine is 1450 as well, same as my last Tundra, but with a bigger truck with more options. I knew what I was getting in to though...



That "built in" 400 lbs is "built in" to the calculated towing capacity, not the vehicles payload, or either of the GVWR or GCWR numbers. He does not have an extra 400 lbs of capacity hidden in those numbers.
I just want to be able to tow 7,800 lbs and have me and one passenger be able to vacation 300 miles north 2-3 times a year without having to count weight lol
Aside from that, nothing more than a couple thousand pounds. Furniture, washers and dryers and fridges for tenants no more than an hour away from my home.
Just added side steps that have to be close to 100 pounds, too. Every salesperson I spoke with knew it was a concern of mine. They did not help me realize how significantly it could be affected.
 

thabiiighomie

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I have no dog in this hunt either, and this was already mentioned above, but it's worth repeating: It is a fact that it is technically illegal to exceed ANY of the manufacturer's weight ratings.

I realize that no matter if one is at fault in a vehicle accident or not, chances are you'll get sued by someone for something. That said, if any party (be it law enforcement/insurance companies/or especially the attorneys of any of the parties involved) can prove that your vehicle exceeded manufacturer's ratings in any category, you have definitely opened yourself up for greater liability. Yes, the vehicles likely do have some percentage of margin built in to the ratings shown on the vehicle's placard. But the equipment end of it is only a single factor in one's decision, and all too often people forget about unintended consequences, and the liability incurred if/when something unplanned does happen.

If someone didn't have the full story, didn't do their research, or just believed the sales person without questioning/researching and ended up buying a tow vehicle that is not up to the task, then that's on them (or possibly partly on the sales person or dealership itself, if they made incorrect or misleading statements). But as the song goes "you can't always get what you want", and if a person wants to tow & haul more than their vehicle is rated for, my two-cents worth of advice is to trade it in for a more appropriate, right-sized vehicle for the load one wants to haul/tow. The math is easy, one just has to do their due-diligence.
There was no math I could do. I asked and kept getting the generic “Tow cap is 11340lbs, payload is 1840lbs” from 3 separate sales departments. I asked when I finally decided to build it and they said the computer is not that sophisticated to find out the true payload while taking add-ons into consideration.
 

go-ram

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While I didn't find your statement about insurance liability to be accurate during the 9 years I was a bodily injury claims adjuster, who knows things may have changed in the lawsuit happy world since 1992.
While I do agree and always personally have towed or hauled a truck camper with more than enough truck, its interesting that no agent I have ever known has asked me about gcvwr, proper hitch ratings, safety chains, payload, experience or license class. They are very nterested in my credit score though... lol like that has much to do with my rear axle weight or pin weight on the 5th wheel. Who knows, maybe there is a correlation?
It depends on who is suing who, and for how much. As soon as any attorneys get involved, each one will look for whatever crack in the armor they can find to either get their client off, or limit their client's liability, depending on which side of the suing they are. If anyone involved went over the manufacturer's rated weight limits, it's an easy target for an attorney. It might not happen often, I'm just saying no one wants to be that guy that gets accused of going over the manufacturer's ratings if someone else got hurt.

I agree that the insurance companies should be more diligent in educating their customers about vehicle ratings/capacities and asking pointed questions in order to limit their liability. Then again, I've never read the fine print on any of my vehicle insurance policies, maybe the insurance company has a disclaimer in there somewhere about limiting their liability in the event the insured operates the vehicle in an unsafe manner, which would broadly include overloading the vehicle.
 
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