Oil Preference?

[jdefoe0424]

And that's what's wrong with the PF "tests", he wants the viewer to believe his "tests" prove one oil is better than another and people love to see tests that prove the product they use is the best. An oil isn't "better" because it trickles down some PVC pipe faster than its competitor, or less burns off in a coffee pot on a griddle.

Here is a newsletter from Blackstone they sent out back in 2017. Inexpensive analysis like Blackstone have some limitations on measuring wear rates but they did a good job comparing the results from thousands of reports they have in their database and couldn't conclude that any one particular oil is the "best". I'll take that over an amateur Youtuber conducting made up tests in his garage.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Aug-17-ENG.pdf

Yes, someone could tailor an oil mixture to pass those tests with ease. Now put that same exact mixture in an engine on a dyno and see what happens compared to other oils...
There's merit to the tests but the results should be taken with a grain of salt.

I agree that, within reason, any oil will protect an engine given a correct change interval, but money(and time) can be saved by using better oil and extending change intervals.
A simple analysis though does not tell the whole story, a very wise man told me that an engine that loses only .01% (pretty sure it was under .05%) of its mass can be useless. That's all the iron the power cylinders have to lose before there's no longer sealing for combustion. It's an incredibly miniscule amount.

 

[silver billet]

I would not dismiss anyone’s claim that Redline quieted down their engine. My question, and this is in my nature to try to look deeper into things, is if there is something in the RL formula that is actually fixing the problem by preventing possible damage or is it just masking the tick sound? Obviously the only way to know that would require very in depth, long term testing of multiple engines.

Nobody really knows for sure. But we know Redline quiets the tick, and we know Redline protects really well against wear (because we have UOA reports that show this), and we know that Redline also quiets the engine as a whole (not the tick specifically, it runs quieter even if you don't have the tick). Some oils like Amsoil are reported to be worse for engine noise than Redline (not tick, just general engine noise/clatter).

So with all that... Redline can't be hurting your engine, and there is a 50% chance it's helping against lifter failure and a 50% chance it's doing nothing against it (masking). It certainly won't make the lifters fail quicker. I'm of the opinion that its hard to mask this. I don't understand how an oil can make something sound better/quiet but not actually reduce wear. It's pretty simple science I would think, metal hits/rubs on metal, the stronger it does that the more noise it makes. Less noise = more protection. ?? (I'm not an expert on this by any means.)

All around, that's a pretty big win in my book. Only real downside is cost, and I've learned to watch the flyers and buy oil months in advance. I already have 2 summer oil changes sitting in my garage purchased at 45% sale price. Still trying to come up with a winter strategy to reduce piston slap when its cold(probably go with 0w-30) so I haven't purchased anything yet for that. I only need 2 oil changes per year, I do about 24,000 KM and the UOA reports says there is still some life left in the oil at 12K KM so.

And yeah I am way to concerned about this, just in case you know it but don't want to say it. Just my nature to sweat the details. Most people are fine with dealer oil but I was hoping to run this truck for 200,000+ miles.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

I get your concern but only you can decide if it’s too much. I’ve told this before so forgive me for repeating it but I think it’s worth repeating. When I started looking at Rams a year ago I spoke to the mechanic at the ISP district I worked at about the lifter and cam issues with the patrol Chargers. He said the last ones he had to send to a dealership were 2015’s and that Dodge changed suppliers in 2016 and he hasn’t seen any problems with the 2016 model years and later. The oil used is Safety Kleen synthetic blend 5W-20, is changed every 5K and the cars are kept in service until they hit 200K.

I’ve since retired and was in investigations and was never issued a Charger, but saw them every day and talked to the the troops driving them. Very few reported a tick or any other noises. His information gave me the confidence to buy one and so far after a year mine is completely quiet. Fingers crossed.

 

[silver billet]

I get your concern but only you can decide if it’s too much. I’ve told this before so forgive me for repeating it but I think it’s worth repeating. When I started looking at Rams a year ago I spoke to the mechanic at the ISP district I worked at about the lifter and cam issues with the patrol Chargers. He said the last ones he had to send to a dealership were 2015’s and that Dodge changed suppliers in 2016 and he hasn’t seen any problems with the 2016 model years and later. The oil used is Safety Kleen synthetic blend 5W-20, is changed every 5K and the cars are kept in service until they hit 200K.

I’ve since retired and was in investigations and was never issued a Charger, but saw them every day and talked to the the troops driving them. Very few reported a tick or any other noises. His information gave me the confidence to buy one and so far after a year mine is completely quiet. Fingers crossed.

Agreed, I believe FCA fixed this in recent Hemis since I read somewhere that they have new part numbers for the lifters. Time will tell.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Agreed, I believe FCA fixed this in recent Hemis since I read somewhere that they have new part numbers for the lifters. Time will tell.

Problem is, it wasn't 100% lifter issue. There is an inherent design flaw in the block that limits oiling to the lifters and cam at idle or low RPM.

 

[silver billet]

Problem is, it wasn't 100% lifter issue. There is an inherent design flaw in the block that limits oiling to the lifters and cam at idle or low RPM.

That is speculation only at this point. Yeah I know, I've seen all the videos on this from Uncle Tony to Reignighted etc. All speculation, and I don't agree with it for several reasons (not going to get into it all again but I posted it somewhere on this forum several times).

 

[markjerry]

I have spent soooo many hours on Bob the Oil Guys site reading through threads and oil. Worth it if you have not and are int in oil. Realized that it’s more about just using a pretty good oil and actually changing it. So many miss that last part. I ended up using Schaeffer’s 5w-20 synth with Wix filters (air and oil). A bit pricey but what I have seen, read, and talked to about it, made my decision pretty clear.

 

[Jako]

I have spent soooo many hours on Bob the Oil Guys site reading through threads and oil. Worth it if you have not and are int in oil. Realized that it’s more about just using a pretty good oil and actually changing it. So many miss that last part. I ended up using Schaeffer’s 5w-20 synth with Wix filters (air and oil). A bit pricey but what I have seen, read, and talked to about it, made my decision pretty clear.

My dad liked Schaefer too! Bought it by quart back in the day.

 

[tidefan1967]

I have spent soooo many hours on Bob the Oil Guys site reading through threads and oil. Worth it if you have not and are int in oil. Realized that it’s more about just using a pretty good oil and actually changing it. So many miss that last part. I ended up using Schaeffer’s 5w-20 synth with Wix filters (air and oil). A bit pricey but what I have seen, read, and talked to about it, made my decision pretty clear.

Schaeffers is good oil, better than Pennzoil that’s for sure.

 

[Ramjack]

Schaeffers is good oil, better than Pennzoil that’s for sure.

$14/qt but the base oil is 60-80% mineral oil.

 

[tidefan1967]

It will quiet that Hemi tick better than most although I’m a Redline guy at heart.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I have spent soooo many hours on Bob the Oil Guys site reading through threads and oil. Worth it if you have not and are int in oil. Realized that it’s more about just using a pretty good oil and actually changing it. So many miss that last part. I ended up using Schaeffer’s 5w-20 synth with Wix filters (air and oil). A bit pricey but what I have seen, read, and talked to about it, made my decision pretty clear.

Despite what others might say, having personally opened up a wix filter compared to a Mobil1 and K&N, and there is no comparison. Also, the only time I ever used a Wix filter on my Dakota with the 5.9l, I had an oil leak from filter. I won't buy them anymore. The Mopar ones are better built.

 

[VegasRob55]

No, I check my oil every 1k miles ever since I started driving in the crazy Vegas heat. At 3k miles it was darker than fresh but not even close to black. I do see your point when sending a sample in to check for problems. It's like having a blood test lol.

Motor oil is often black in the desert. There's a ton of dust and dirt in the air and plenty of it gets into your oil, whether you like it or not. Take a look in your airbox tonight, I bet it's pretty dusty
Whether you drive in Vegas or Vermont, the engine thermostat on the 5.7 Ram runs at 188 degrees F. The excessive outdoor heat is not blackening your new motor oil haha. It regularly runs through 200 degree metal parts and pumps. I use Valvoline full synthetic 5w-20, and follow the OCI internal screen recommendation to change. Usually at 10% life remaining. Never burn oil, and it's usually a bit dirty, yet still clean of metal or sand debris.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Motor oil is often black in the desert. There's a ton of dust and dirt in the air and plenty of it gets into your oil, whether you like it or not. Take a look in your airbox tonight, I bet it's pretty dusty
Whether you drive in Vegas or Vermont, the engine thermostat on the 5.7 Ram runs at 188 degrees F. The excessive outdoor heat is not blackening your new motor oil haha. It regularly runs through 200 degree metal parts and pumps. I use Valvoline full synthetic 5w-20, and follow the OCI internal screen recommendation to change. Usually at 10% life remaining. Never burn oil, and it's usually a bit dirty, yet still clean of metal or sand debris.

Factory thermostat on the Hemi is a 205 degree thermostat. Not 188.

 

[SD Rebel]

That sounds about right, the normal thermostat cycle is about 205F - 220F. The fan turns on at around 230F and brings it down to 220F.

Modern vehicles run at these higher temps for better efficiency, both in terms of fuel economy and power.

 

[Idahoktm]

Motor oil is often black in the desert. There's a ton of dust and dirt in the air and plenty of it gets into your oil, whether you like it or not. Take a look in your airbox tonight, I bet it's pretty dusty
Whether you drive in Vegas or Vermont, the engine thermostat on the 5.7 Ram runs at 188 degrees F. The excessive outdoor heat is not blackening your new motor oil haha. It regularly runs through 200 degree metal parts and pumps. I use Valvoline full synthetic 5w-20, and follow the OCI internal screen recommendation to change. Usually at 10% life remaining. Never burn oil, and it's usually a bit dirty, yet still clean of metal or sand debris.

The air box will always be dirty because you're looking into the dirty side when you remove the filter element. To see if dirt is getting past your filter, you need to look downstream from the air box. I lived in Phoenix for 20 years and I never saw any visible dirt get past the filter and my oil wasn't any darker than it is here in Idaho.

 

[Ramjack]

That sounds about right, the normal thermostat cycle is about 205F - 220F. The fan turns on at around 230F and brings it down to 220F.

Modern vehicles run at these higher temps for better efficiency, both in terms of fuel economy and power.

I can understand the higher temps might benefit fuel economy and emissions, but power ???

 

[SD Rebel]

I can understand the higher temps might benefit fuel economy and emissions, but power ???

Yup, power too. Mainly the higher temps allow more efficient fuel burn, which aids in power as well as fuel consumption, they kind go hand in hand there.

We aren't talking about big temp differences, mainly from old world 180F - 200F to now 200F - 220F. Only about a 10% increase in temp cycle. This is separate in regards to cooler air from the intake which also improves power potential.

 

[Ramjack]

Yup, power too. Mainly the higher temps allow more efficient fuel burn, which aids in power as well as fuel consumption, they kind go hand in hand there.

We aren't talking about big temp differences, mainly from old world 180F - 200F to now 200F - 220F. Only about a 10% increase in temp cycle. This is separate in regards to cooler air from the intake which also improves power potential.

Forgive me, but I'm skeptical. I think it's an emissions thing. If you have a citation you can share, that would be great. I'll see what I can find on my own. And how do higher engine temperatures result in cooler intake temperatures?

 

[HSKR R/T]

Forgive me, but I'm skeptical. I think it's an emissions thing. If you have a citation you can share, that would be great. I'll see what I can find on my own. And how do higher engine temperatures result in cooler intake temperatures?

It doesn't create cooler air intake, he was saying a cooler air intake charge also helps with power.

As far as engine power, most people are used to the old school 180 tstat for better performance because you could safely run more timing without detonation. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was the optimal temperature for combustion