New info on Gas tank fueling issue

[HSKR R/T]

Chopped for clarity/contrast. I don't "top off". Just wondering how all these tanks are getting replaced, if the vent solenoid is the problem. And what are all the missing steps in the diag procedure?

I've had the vent solenoid replaced on my GMC so I could refuel, and I simply let the check engine light stay on (and I could refuel) for a while on a toyota that was fuel logged, which did dry out, altho I don't remember how long. Motorcycle cannisters do dry out fairly quick - couple days.

I'm wondering if RAM even knows exactly what's going on, and are just having dealers throw parts at it until it works. Some get just the filler neck replaced some get the whole tank replaced, others have had just the evap canister and vent lines replaced.

 

[6of36]

I suppose someone could try disconnecting their ESIM and maybe the tank would fill? I think it is connected to the canister? It seems to be a mechanical part by a plenum, weight and spring which opens/closes due to vacuum vs no vacuum. If the part stays closed, I think it wouldn't allow any venting but might not throw codes when the truck is running? Maybe tapping on it or disconnect would allow fill? My truck is in the shop or I'd give it a try. If they give me the old ESIM part back, I'll take it apart and check for corrosion on the parts, my garage is very humid, maybe something rusts and gets jammed? I am only speculating and still don't even know if a new ESIM fixed my issue or not yet. The dealership is waiting on the new ESIM for install.

They can not give you the old part, on a warranty repair. It has to be kept, to be returned to FCA, for possible inspection, to diagnose failure. If it is customer pay, they have to return it to you, if you request it.

 

[FLiPMaRC]

Just curious ... those who have the filling issues, have you tried filling up while the engine is running?

I'm going to try it next time it happens to me.

 

[Bt10]

I would think the vent solenoid would definitely not open then, just spitballin’.

 

[blunderblorm]

The first time this happened to me I was trying to fill when it was running, it was -15F on a Christmas eve with wind... I thought I broke mine that way so never did this again.

 

[Grouper]

I just got my truck back from having the 33 gallon tank replaced. I drove straight to a 7-11 where I previously couldn't refuel for more than three seconds without the safety engaging.

I'm happy to report that I was able to refuel with no issue. It's a little disconcerting to read that apparently some have had repairs performed which seemingly fixed the issue, only to have the problem resurface. So only time will tell.

I'm in Florida, so cold weather has not been a factor. Prior to the repair, I was unable to refuel anywhere other than Wawa. Wawa's nozzles must be slightly different from most others. But regardless, the dealership said there was a test for the rollover valve in the fuel tank (per the SB that has been mentioned on this forum) and my valve failed the test. That seems fairly objective.

I will say that Ram support was outstanding. I reached out to RamCares after the dealership told me they would not provide a loaner vehicle or rental reimbursement. RamCares opened a case and agreed to provide rental reimbursement. I received at least half a dozen follow-up calls and I know that Ram support was in direct contact with the dealership. They were the ones who called to tell me the fuel tank had arrived, not the dealership.

Hopefully, this is a one-and-done repair.

 

[Nickjaxn]

I have the 33 gallon tank. I just finished dealing with this issue. I tried every angle, every depth, engine running, engine off. The only way I could put gas in my tank was to barely apply pressure to the pump handle and it would take 30+ minutes to fill up. First I disconnected the vent tube, still had issue. Next I replaced the evap cannister, still had issue. Next I pushed air through all of my lines, no blockage found, still had issue. Finally I replaced the fual tank, issue fixed.

 

[theblet]

I have the 33 gallon tank. I just finished dealing with this issue. I tried every angle, every depth, engine running, engine off. The only way I could put gas in my tank was to barely apply pressure to the pump handle and it would take 30+ minutes to fill up. First I disconnected the vent tube, still had issue. Next I replaced the evap cannister, still had issue. Next I pushed air through all of my lines, no blockage found, still had issue. Finally I replaced the fual tank, issue fixed.

Did they replace the fuel neck also? I can’t see a tank by itself causing this. There’s something preventing the flow, maybe the roll over valve, idk.

 

[Bt10]

Did they replace the fuel neck also? I can’t see a tank by itself causing this. There’s something preventing the flow, maybe the roll over valve, idk.

A page or 2 back, someone mentioned that the rollover valve was molded into the tank, below the filler neck. That is why the whole tank is replaced. HSKR R/T

Also why I said, out of warranty, has anyone punched out, removed, disabled, etc., the valve. Marvel mystery oil down the neck? Any way to work it back and forth to keep it freed up??

 

[theblet]

A page or 2 back, someone mentioned that the rollover valve was molded into the tank, below the filler neck. That is why the whole tank is replaced. HSKR R/T

Also why I said, out of warranty, has anyone punched out, removed, disabled, etc., the valve. Marvel mystery oil down the neck? Any way to work it back and forth to keep it freed up??

I see. IMO it's a good possibility. If the roll over valve is at the base of the neck, you definitely can't get to it without dropping the tank. Maybe the jerry can funnel can be placed in, and then run a stiff wire down there to poke it free? Don't think anyone has tried.

 

[cskindt]

I see. IMO it's a good possibility. If the roll over valve is at the base of the neck, you definitely can't get to it without dropping the tank. Maybe the jerry can funnel can be placed in, and then run a stiff wire down there to poke it free? Don't think anyone has tried.

There is a check-valve on the filler tube fitting. In my estimation, it takes next to nothing to open it. Less than the weight of the hemostat could open it.
I think the thing behind the filler port is where air exits the tank through the fuel pump plumbing. The other end of the corrugated black hose connects to the fuel pump.
Then, outside the tank it's connected to the vapor canister where, on the opposite end, the vapor tube connects to equalize to ambient pressure if the solenoid is open.

I swapped my 26 for a 33 gallon tank using the same pump and vapor canister. I never had problems filling either tank.

 

[Bt10]

Haven't been able to reliably put gas in my 2019 Ram 1500 for over a month. Had it at dealer about 3 weeks ago to have them diagnose and replace what I believed was a faulty filler neck since it was replaced once before by them under warranty for the exact same issue: gas handle clicks off immediately when fueling. After having it all day, they called and said they think it's the vapor canister and will have to order one. I reluctantly agreed to their diagnosis so I picked up the truck while they tracked down a new canister; good thing I didn't leave it with them! After a couple weeks of waiting, I went ahead and ordered a new fuel neck (revision "J") and a vapor canister (revision "D") from an online Mopar retailer www.moparpartsgiant.com. Today I installed just the filler neck and viola! problem is fixed. Ram has had real problems for their 1st edition capless filler necks, hence revision *J*. If you have a 2019-21 Ram with capless filler neck and cannot put gas in the truck, put this in 1st as it's only about $50 for the part and replaceable fairly easily at home. View attachment 121791

I had to replace my tank and replace the vapor canister (with the twin canister version) in order to fix the problem. After purchasing the parts from the dealer based on my VIN, I paid a Ram mechanic do it on the side in his driveway. He told me the root cause is the rollover valve getting stuck in the closed/semi closed position. Unfortunately the rollover valve is molded into the plastic gas tank so tank replacement is necessary. The twin canister is also replaced to minimize back pressure when refueling which can push the rollover valve into the closed position (again).

Above quoted from the other thread.

From your post, looks like a wire could be pushed in from the filler neck or a blast of air to unseat the check valve? Looks like it's job is to seal up, not anything going down. Also, from your inside pic, out of warranty, saw blade may permanently fix this.

 

[HSKR R/T]

T

There is a check-valve on the filler tube fitting. In my estimation, it takes next to nothing to open it. Less than the weight of the hemostat could open it.
I think the thing behind the filler port is where air exits the tank through the fuel pump plumbing. The other end of the corrugated black hose connects to the fuel pump.
Then, outside the tank it's connected to the vapor canister where, on the opposite end, the vapor tube connects to equalize to ambient pressure if the solenoid is open.

I swapped my 26 for a 33 gallon tank using the same pump and vapor canister. I never had problems filling either tank.

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That "check valve" would be the anti-rolkover valve to keep fuel in the tank in a roll over. I could potentially see the "hinge" possibly getting dirty or stiff and preventing it from opening all the way. If you could get something pushed down the filler neck, it is possible to push it open enough to work. But then you'd almost have to leave the wire or whatever it was in while filling up to prevent it closing after you pull it out, before fueling. Not sure if it would stay "stuck" open, so would have to do that every time you fuel up.

 

[Bt10]

.... I could potentially see the "hinge" possibly getting dirty or stiff and preventing it from opening all the way. If you could get something pushed down the filler neck, it is possible to push it open enough to work. ....

Yeah, that's why I wonder if Marvel would help free it up. I don't think you'd need to leave it in there regularly tho. Back a couple pages, someone had the problem once a year; be interesting to see if you could get a long spray can tube, like the ones on a direct injection cleaner can, and try to squirt something down there when you notice a problem.

Mine's been in for 2 days with no word yet....

 

[cskindt]

Yeah, that's why I wonder if Marvel would help free it up. I don't think you'd need to leave it in there regularly tho. Back a couple pages, someone had the problem once a year; be interesting to see if you could get a long spray can tube, like the ones on a direct injection cleaner can, and try to squirt something down there when you notice a problem.

Mine's been in for 2 days with no word yet....

You can reach all up in there and disconnect the filler hose at the tank. Then stick something in the hole and see how loose the flapper is.

 

[Bt10]

You can reach all up in there and disconnect the filler hose at the tank. Then stick something in the hole and see how loose the flapper is.

That sounds like work!

Just got a call to pick it up - vent canister. See you next year.

 

[theblet]

You can reach all up in there and disconnect the filler hose at the tank. Then stick something in the hole and see how loose the flapper is.

Im pretty sure you'll have to drop the tank for that. Maybe inserting the funnel and running something through there would push it open.

Yeah, that's why I wonder if Marvel would help free it up. I don't think you'd need to leave it in there regularly tho. Back a couple pages, someone had the problem once a year; be interesting to see if you could get a long spray can tube, like the ones on a direct injection cleaner can, and try to squirt something down there when you notice a problem.

Mine's been in for 2 days with no word yet....

Not sure if marvel would help. Wouldn't hurt I guess.

 

[cskindt]

Im pretty sure you'll have to drop the tank for that. Maybe inserting the funnel and running something through there would push it open.


Not sure if marvel would help. Wouldn't hurt I guess.

You can get up in it. Especially if you peel back the wheel-well liner if you have it.
Although, you have to lay on your back and do it blindly.

 

[Oldphart]

Yeah, that's why I wonder if Marvel would help free it up. I don't think you'd need to leave it in there regularly tho. Back a couple pages, someone had the problem once a year; be interesting to see if you could get a long spray can tube, like the ones on a direct injection cleaner can, and try to squirt something down there when you notice a problem.

Mine's been in for 2 days with no word yet....

I've been using that stuff for over 55 years. It's the only additive I've ever added to gas and oil. I've got the 33 gallon tank in a 21 5.7 E torque Lonestar. About 45k miles now. I've never had an issue with filling the tank at any station. Also, I've not had any issues with injectors or carbs fouling. I better shut up now or on the way home today the engine just may fall out

 

[blunderblorm]

I got my truck back and have filled up twice without issue. The dealership said they replaced the ESIM. That is the only part that is noted on the work receipt except the fuel they added for their tests.

I got under the truck to look around when I got it back... I could swear the gas tank looks new. The factory white stickers are still on it without a stain! I can't imagine those held up 15k miles in MN winter and dirt roads + many car washes with under carriage blasts in the condition they are now. Maybe they replaced the tank and didn't say? I think a single car wash might take those stickers off. Anyway, maybe they only replaced the ESIM, maybe they did more. They had my truck for 6 days claiming a wait on the ESIM.

Considering how cheap the ESIM part is and relatively easy to get to, it might be a good starting point for those out of warranty. Fingers crossed this one goes further than 10k miles which is about where the first one began having issues.