Key Fob Not Responding and Truck Won't Start - Possible Water Damage?

[jonnygobig]

George! We are neighbors on either side of the hill!! Hope all is well and you are staying dry! Thanks for the reply. January of last year was literally a federal disaster in Santa Cruz due to rains, similar wave and rain damage now, not surprising it leaked.

Did you get the warranty extension letter? Maybe you can pm @RamCares, if they replaced the window and noted water enough to blow out connections, clearly related and a diagnosis of sorts or at least implied by work performed. $1500ish at dealer is insane.

I also have zero confidence in our local dealer, tried to go in for warranty work and they said “pay to diagnose, then you can have appointment 6 weeks out to fix broken stud on exh”. Although I am not ASE, I have pulled and replaced 5.7 motor and tranny’s a few times, seems way to simple to wait months. I offered to show them, you can see through wheel well..policy was quoted and I bailed, Watsonville dealer did it for me same day(they thrashed trim and wheel well though). I don’t know I could trust rear window to them unless they have done many. Guess I have to.

I like your idea of dry out and dielectric grease pack of connections, I may even put unit on stand offs just in case I have to wait months for back window. I almost want to cut a little 3 sided square folding access hole so I can quickly replace or check it periodically without pulling seats, could be ugly if you have rear console down. West Marine sells access portals, I used one for fuel pump access on a 88 blazer build I finished. Might look better. I think I have to do this on my own, I don’t have time or money for dealership antics.

Something still doesn’t make sense in the failure mode though, right now it appears I only have a “near field” issue in that all long range frequency operations are normal but near field fob detect and start passive entry feature doesn’t work. Maybe one antenna is shorted only, seems like if hub was down I would have larger problem statement.

I am hoping someone can point out either alldata diagnosis tree to partition antenna vs hub and if antenna fail, which is near field and where it is…

Thanks again for the reply!

 

[jonnygobig]

Thanks for this forum by the way…If @RAM cares really wanted loyalty and knew their highly skilled customers like you all, they should verify, format and publish all your tips and tricks as direct or direct Customer Service Bulletins, not just cryptic TSBs. All cars have problems but the solutions are there, they should leverage all fleet learning, exponentially improving reliability next gen CIP and satisfaction.

Enough complaining….Truck has now progressed and with passive entry not working now states (on both fobs)that key fob battery low, not detected and sometimes that it has left the vehicles. Changed batteries, both had originals.

This is actually encouraging, in my mind it is now detecting fobs, yet near field start and passive entry are not functional. I tried batt disconnect @ neg terminal, enable disable in configuration of passive but clearly if ignition does not respond to key(except to say battery low or sometimes left the vehicle) then with new batteries in both, I either need a fob reset, near field antenna or rf hub.

Has anyone:

1. Reset their original key fobs? How do I do this?
2. Replaced just near field antenna? Which one is it in diagram and where is it located?

Thanks and Happy New Year!

 

[Vulpes]

Thanks for this forum by the way…If @RAM cares really wanted loyalty and knew their highly skilled customers like you all, they should verify, format and publish all your tips and tricks as direct or direct Customer Service Bulletins, not just cryptic TSBs. All cars have problems but the solutions are there, they should leverage all fleet learning, exponentially improving reliability next gen CIP and satisfaction.

Enough complaining….Truck has now progressed and with passive entry not working now states (on both fobs)that key fob battery low, not detected and sometimes that it has left the vehicles. Changed batteries, both had originals.

This is actually encouraging, in my mind it is now detecting fobs, yet near field start and passive entry are not functional. I tried batt disconnect @ neg terminal, enable disable in configuration of passive but clearly if ignition does not respond to key(except to say battery low or sometimes left the vehicle) then with new batteries in both, I either need a fob reset, near field antenna or rf hub.

Has anyone:

1. Reset their original key fobs? How do I do this?
2. Replaced just near field antenna? Which one is it in diagram and where is it located?

Thanks and Happy New Year!

​

​

PROGRAMMING THE RF-HUB and KEY FOBS​

NOTE: An erase programmed key procedure is provided within the wiTECH service tool. A Personal Identification Number (PIN) is required to erase original fobs. If programmed fobs are erased accidentally, then original programmed fobs can be reprogrammed to the SAME Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) ONLY. A pre-programmed fob cannot be reprogrammed to another VIN. A new blank fob obtained from MOPAR service can be added to a VIN only one time and will remain mated to the VIN even if the fob is erased from the VIN. It can, however, be reprogrammed.
NOTE:
If a Body Control Module (BCM) is also going to be replaced at this time, (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/Standard Procedure) before proceeding.


NOTE: The key fob must be held against the Keyless Ignition Node (KIN) during programming.

1. After the Radio Frequency Hub (RF-Hub) module has been replaced with new unit, connect the diagnostic scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC) (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/CONNECTOR, Data Link/Description) .
2. Using the scan tool, navigate to the RF-Hub in the "Vehicle View" screen.
3. Use the scan tool to select "RF-Hub" and then perform the "RF-Hub Replace" routine.
   NOTE: Steps 6-7 are only needed when programming a new key fob to the vehicle. If there are not new key fobs in use, proceed to step #8.
   NOTE:
   Do not put a Laptop or other wireless device (cell phone, cell phone, audio device, etc.) on top of or near the center console (between the seats to the dash). The Low Frequency (LF) antenna is below the center console and these devices may interrupt programming. Make sure that the key fob that is being programmed is inside the car away from nearby consumer electronics. Disconnect aftermarket cell phone chargers before attempting to program the key fob.
4. Using the scan tool, select "Program Ignition FOBIK" in the Miscellaneous Functions menu and follow the instructions on the screen.
5. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition to the OFF position, wait 30 seconds, then cycle the ignition to the ON/RUN position.
6. Using the scan tool, check for active RF-Hub Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC). If a DTC is found, take corrective action as needed.
7. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition OFF and check the Key Fob for proper operation.
8. Perform the BODY VERIFICATION TEST (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Body Control (BCM) - Standard Procedure).

9. Thanks for this forum by the way…If @RAM cares really wanted loyalty and knew their highly skilled customers like you all, they should verify, format and publish all your tips and tricks as direct or direct Customer Service Bulletins, not just cryptic TSBs. All cars have problems but the solutions are there, they should leverage all fleet learning, exponentially improving reliability next gen CIP and satisfaction.
   
   Enough complaining….Truck has now progressed and with passive entry not working now states (on both fobs)that key fob battery low, not detected and sometimes that it has left the vehicles. Changed batteries, both had originals.
   
   This is actually encouraging, in my mind it is now detecting fobs, yet near field start and passive entry are not functional. I tried batt disconnect @ neg terminal, enable disable in configuration of passive but clearly if ignition does not respond to key(except to say battery low or sometimes left the vehicle) then with new batteries in both, I either need a fob reset, near field antenna or rf hub.
   
   Has anyone:
   
   1. Reset their original key fobs? How do I do this?
   2. Replaced just near field antenna? Which one is it in diagram and where is it located?
   
   Thanks and Happy New Year!

   Hi, This sounds like a royal pita. I looked up the key fob programming, and it looks like there is at least one gatekeeper; the scantool. It looks like reprogramming the original key fob might not need the personal identification number?

PROGRAMMING THE RF-HUB and KEY FOBS​

NOTE: An erase programmed key procedure is provided within the wiTECH service tool. A Personal Identification Number (PIN) is required to erase original fobs. If programmed fobs are erased accidentally, then original programmed fobs can be reprogrammed to the SAME Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) ONLY. A pre-programmed fob cannot be reprogrammed to another VIN. A new blank fob obtained from MOPAR service can be added to a VIN only one time and will remain mated to the VIN even if the fob is erased from the VIN. It can, however, be reprogrammed.
NOTE:
If a Body Control Module (BCM) is also going to be replaced at this time, (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/Standard Procedure) before proceeding.


NOTE: The key fob must be held against the Keyless Ignition Node (KIN) during programming.

1. After the Radio Frequency Hub (RF-Hub) module has been replaced with new unit, connect the diagnostic scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC) (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/CONNECTOR, Data Link/Description) .
2. Using the scan tool, navigate to the RF-Hub in the "Vehicle View" screen.
3. Use the scan tool to select "RF-Hub" and then perform the "RF-Hub Replace" routine.
   NOTE: Steps 6-7 are only needed when programming a new key fob to the vehicle. If there are not new key fobs in use, proceed to step #8.
   NOTE:
   Do not put a Laptop or other wireless device (cell phone, cell phone, audio device, etc.) on top of or near the center console (between the seats to the dash). The Low Frequency (LF) antenna is below the center console and these devices may interrupt programming. Make sure that the key fob that is being programmed is inside the car away from nearby consumer electronics. Disconnect aftermarket cell phone chargers before attempting to program the key fob.
4. Using the scan tool, select "Program Ignition FOBIK" in the Miscellaneous Functions menu and follow the instructions on the screen.
5. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition to the OFF position, wait 30 seconds, then cycle the ignition to the ON/RUN position.
6. Using the scan tool, check for active RF-Hub Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC). If a DTC is found, take corrective action as needed.
7. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition OFF and check the Key Fob for proper operation.
8. Perform the BODY VERIFICATION TEST (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Body Control (BCM) - Standard Procedure).

This says the low frequency antenna is in/below the center console, but the link does not show the location of it.

KEY FOB PROGRAMMING​

NOTE:
Do not put a Laptop or other wireless device (cell phone, cell phone, audio device, etc.) on top of or near the center console (between the seats to the dash). The Low Frequency (LF) antenna is below the center console and these devices may interrupt programming. Make sure that the key fob that is being programmed is inside the car away from nearby consumer electronics. Disconnect aftermarket cell phone chargers before attempting to program the key fob.


Using Service Library, obtain a Personal Identification Number (PIN) prior to starting the programming routine.


Sitting in the vehicle with the doors closed is a requirement for this routine to complete properly.


The key fob must be held against the Keyless Ignition Node (KIN) during key fob programming.

1. Using the diagnostic scan tool, select the Radio Frequency Hub (RF-Hub).
2. Select the “Miscellaneous Functions” tab.
3. Select and run the “Program Ignition FOBIKs” procedure and follow the screen prompts.

If the key fob fails to program or is inoperative (Refer to 08 - Electrical/Power Locks/Diagnosis and Testing) .

 

[Vulpes]

​

​

PROGRAMMING THE RF-HUB and KEY FOBS​

NOTE: An erase programmed key procedure is provided within the wiTECH service tool. A Personal Identification Number (PIN) is required to erase original fobs. If programmed fobs are erased accidentally, then original programmed fobs can be reprogrammed to the SAME Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) ONLY. A pre-programmed fob cannot be reprogrammed to another VIN. A new blank fob obtained from MOPAR service can be added to a VIN only one time and will remain mated to the VIN even if the fob is erased from the VIN. It can, however, be reprogrammed.
NOTE:
If a Body Control Module (BCM) is also going to be replaced at this time, (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/Standard Procedure) before proceeding.


NOTE: The key fob must be held against the Keyless Ignition Node (KIN) during programming.

1. After the Radio Frequency Hub (RF-Hub) module has been replaced with new unit, connect the diagnostic scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC) (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/CONNECTOR, Data Link/Description) .
2. Using the scan tool, navigate to the RF-Hub in the "Vehicle View" screen.
3. Use the scan tool to select "RF-Hub" and then perform the "RF-Hub Replace" routine.
   NOTE: Steps 6-7 are only needed when programming a new key fob to the vehicle. If there are not new key fobs in use, proceed to step #8.
   NOTE:
   Do not put a Laptop or other wireless device (cell phone, cell phone, audio device, etc.) on top of or near the center console (between the seats to the dash). The Low Frequency (LF) antenna is below the center console and these devices may interrupt programming. Make sure that the key fob that is being programmed is inside the car away from nearby consumer electronics. Disconnect aftermarket cell phone chargers before attempting to program the key fob.
4. Using the scan tool, select "Program Ignition FOBIK" in the Miscellaneous Functions menu and follow the instructions on the screen.
5. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition to the OFF position, wait 30 seconds, then cycle the ignition to the ON/RUN position.
6. Using the scan tool, check for active RF-Hub Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC). If a DTC is found, take corrective action as needed.
7. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition OFF and check the Key Fob for proper operation.
8. Perform the BODY VERIFICATION TEST (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Body Control (BCM) - Standard Procedure).
9. 
   Hi, This sounds like a royal pita. I looked up the key fob programming, and it looks like there is at least one gatekeeper; the scantool. It looks like reprogramming the original key fob might not need the personal identification number?

PROGRAMMING THE RF-HUB and KEY FOBS​

NOTE: An erase programmed key procedure is provided within the wiTECH service tool. A Personal Identification Number (PIN) is required to erase original fobs. If programmed fobs are erased accidentally, then original programmed fobs can be reprogrammed to the SAME Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) ONLY. A pre-programmed fob cannot be reprogrammed to another VIN. A new blank fob obtained from MOPAR service can be added to a VIN only one time and will remain mated to the VIN even if the fob is erased from the VIN. It can, however, be reprogrammed.
NOTE:
If a Body Control Module (BCM) is also going to be replaced at this time, (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/Standard Procedure) before proceeding.


NOTE: The key fob must be held against the Keyless Ignition Node (KIN) during programming.

1. After the Radio Frequency Hub (RF-Hub) module has been replaced with new unit, connect the diagnostic scan tool to the Data Link Connector (DLC) (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/CONNECTOR, Data Link/Description) .
2. Using the scan tool, navigate to the RF-Hub in the "Vehicle View" screen.
3. Use the scan tool to select "RF-Hub" and then perform the "RF-Hub Replace" routine.
   NOTE: Steps 6-7 are only needed when programming a new key fob to the vehicle. If there are not new key fobs in use, proceed to step #8.
   NOTE:
   Do not put a Laptop or other wireless device (cell phone, cell phone, audio device, etc.) on top of or near the center console (between the seats to the dash). The Low Frequency (LF) antenna is below the center console and these devices may interrupt programming. Make sure that the key fob that is being programmed is inside the car away from nearby consumer electronics. Disconnect aftermarket cell phone chargers before attempting to program the key fob.
4. Using the scan tool, select "Program Ignition FOBIK" in the Miscellaneous Functions menu and follow the instructions on the screen.
5. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition to the OFF position, wait 30 seconds, then cycle the ignition to the ON/RUN position.
6. Using the scan tool, check for active RF-Hub Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC). If a DTC is found, take corrective action as needed.
7. Using the push button ignition, turn the ignition OFF and check the Key Fob for proper operation.
8. Perform the BODY VERIFICATION TEST (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Body Control (BCM) - Standard Procedure).

This says the low frequency antenna is in/below the center console, but the link does not show the location of it.

KEY FOB PROGRAMMING​

NOTE:
Do not put a Laptop or other wireless device (cell phone, cell phone, audio device, etc.) on top of or near the center console (between the seats to the dash). The Low Frequency (LF) antenna is below the center console and these devices may interrupt programming. Make sure that the key fob that is being programmed is inside the car away from nearby consumer electronics. Disconnect aftermarket cell phone chargers before attempting to program the key fob.


Using Service Library, obtain a Personal Identification Number (PIN) prior to starting the programming routine.


Sitting in the vehicle with the doors closed is a requirement for this routine to complete properly.


The key fob must be held against the Keyless Ignition Node (KIN) during key fob programming.

1. Using the diagnostic scan tool, select the Radio Frequency Hub (RF-Hub).
2. Select the “Miscellaneous Functions” tab.
3. Select and run the “Program Ignition FOBIKs” procedure and follow the screen prompts.

If the key fob fails to program or is inoperative (Refer to 08 - Electrical/Power Locks/Diagnosis and Testing) .

OK found a diagram of the LF antenna, it's item #3 in the photo/diagram.

 

[Vulpes]

OK found a diagram of the LF antenna, it's item #3 in the photo/diagram.

How to remove the center console, which should get access to the LF antenna.

• Disconnect and isolate the negative battery cable(s) (Refer to 08 - Electrical/Battery System/Standard Procedure) .
  
  
  
  Open In New Tab Zoom/Print
  
• Remove the Instrument Panel (IP) closeouts (1).
  
  
  
  Open In New Tab Zoom/Print
  
• Remove the bolts (1) from the console to IP.
• Remove the console side closeouts.
  
  
  
  Open In New Tab Zoom/Print
  
• Remove the screw covers. Remove the front (1) and rear (2) screws on both sides of console.
  
  
  
  Open In New Tab Zoom/Print
  
• Slide the console slightly back towards the rear of the vehicle and disconnect the electrical connectors (1).
• Remove the console from vehicle.

 

[jonnygobig]

Wow, you are a hero! Thank you! Killer picture. Procedure is tight, I wish I had access to software tooling, seems a little scary, even if I did I could definitely hose this up and disable the truck. I think I will have it scanned for errors first, will cost money but no need for me to drag out console until I get through that. If it is LF antenna, surprised they don’t have access floor in console. Maybe I will make my own mouse hole, it has a liner…

 

[PigBimpin]

Any updates on this thread? I’m experiencing the exact same problems outlined in the original post.

 

[PigBimpin]

I ended up having the truck towed to the dealer. Before doing so I had replaced the batteries in the key fobs, also replaced 12V battery; nothing changed. I could not manually get the truck into neutral which made the towing experience a bit more challenging for the tow guy. Unfortunately dealer is not instilling too much confidence either. I guess we will see how this story will play out.

 

[FastBlackRam]

I ended up having the truck towed to the dealer. Before doing so I had replaced the batteries in the key fobs, also replaced 12V battery; nothing changed. I could not manually get the truck into neutral which made the towing experience a bit more challenging for the tow guy. Unfortunately dealer is not instilling too much confidence either. I guess we will see how this story will play out.

It is your RF Hub. I went through this and had no water leak, it just failed. Good news was it was covered under my extended warranty as were two key fobs. I now have 4 key fobs as they were able to program my original keys and the new ones to the new RF hub.

 

[PigBimpin]

Than

It is your RF Hub. I went through this and had no water leak, it just failed. Good news was it was covered under my extended warranty as were two key fobs. I now have 4 key fobs as they were able to program my original keys and the new ones to the new RF hub.

Thanks for the reply, I suspect it’s the RF module too. Unfortunately I’m out of warranty.

 

[FastBlackRam]

Than

Thanks for the reply, I suspect it’s the RF module too. Unfortunately I’m out of warranty.

The part is inexpensive. I think it was around $100 on my repair invoice. Maybe you can DIY? However I think you have to get a dealer to reprogram your keys to the new hub. And I am sure that is expensive. They may also claim you can't reprogram your original fobs to the new hub which is not true. And then they will want you to buy new fobs. I am a living example that you can reprogram the originals.

 

[PigBimpin]

Dealer finally responded, it is indeed the RF module. They said it was corroded from either the back window leaking, or the 3rd brake light leaking. Even though I am out of warranty, they are replacing the module, window, and brake light under warranty. It’s been a huge nuisance dealing with all of this, but extremely grateful they are replacing everything under warranty.

 

[NerdDoug]

maybe related: I'm a ham who was contacted by a Ford owner with intermittent fob performance issues. Problem was persistent if he was at home, but absent elsewhere. Eventually found issue was a very strong signal at 433.88 MHz interfering with frequencies that his fob uses. Source was a neighbour's 2005 Ram 1500's alarm system. problem disappears if pickup is moved to 4 blocks away, or alarm is disabled by removing TW-102 enable plug from dashboard. If your issue is connected to a particular location, suggest calling up your local ham radio club and asking if they can detect an interfering signal close to victim fob's operating freqency (which is published). Then ask their "fox hunters" to find the source for you.