How big have you towed? w/Pics no tricks!

[Jeffjad]

Put in Sumo Springs ( bump stop replacements , not the whole springs ) you won't regret the hour of time to install them.

I never heard of them before but just checked out their website and that's a pretty cool product, you may have just made me spend more money lol. Are you currently using these?

EDIT: Nvmd I just saw that you have them listed in your signature. Do they ride on the bump stop plate when you are not towing or is there a gap?

 

[BigBear1612]

This is before I upgraded to the Ram. That's how it felt anyway.

 

[BigBear1612]

here is my biggest tow. 8429lbs in this pic scaled ready to camp. View attachment 43383

I'm thinking about a 5th wheel. How does it tow?

 

[Gfoz12]

2019 Apex Ultra Lite 293RLDS
UVW: 6440lbs (~7400 loaded)
GVWR: 7800lbs
Tongue: 832 (1,000 w/propane,batteries,cargo)
33.11ft length 10.7 height
Tows perfectly up steep grades with no lack of power, minimal sway with anti sway hitch installed. My truck has air ride so it sits level throughout. I have to be minimal of cargo in the cab/bed due to payload restrictions. My temps are in what i consider normal range for when towing a load, wish i took a pic of it to compare, maybe next time ill get a chance. The trailers height is a bit shorter then most other TTs so the wind resistance isnt as severe which i believe helps me with control.

I took a day to weigh my truck and trailer connected, both of them separate, as well as weighed my trailer and its hitch separately so i know exactly what and where to load cargo. View attachment 51966

Nice looking set up. I have same truck, except for air suspension. How is the exhaust sound when towing? Noticeably different/louder than when not towing? Thanks for posting.

 

[intelligence209]

Nice looking set up. I have same truck, except for air suspension. How is the exhaust sound when towing? Noticeably different/louder than when not towing? Thanks for posting.

Yeah its definitely louder, especially when going up a grade, or using the engine to help slow going down a grade. Kinda sucks because my kids sit in the back and it might be loud for them. But when it's just me believe I like to step on it from time to time to hear how good it sounds.

 

[intelligence209]

I'm thinking about a 5th wheel. How does it tow?

If your thinking about a 15th wheel for a half ton, you should really consider and look into it, most half tons are ~1500lbs payload average. The lightest 5th wheels iv seen are snickered at 1300lbs hitch weight with 0 cargo. So you can say a 1300 hitch will realistically be 1500-1600lbs (cargo/bedhitch) Leaving you with no, or negative payload numbers. Even if your generous at 1800lbs payload, you'll be left with no wiggle room after human weight. There is a YouTuber I recommend to all my friends including you guys "big truck big rv" he explains exactly why 5th wheels are just not half ton capable, and very knowledgeable information on all type of towing.

 

[NDanecker]

If your thinking about a 15th wheel for a half ton, you should really consider and look into it, most half tons are ~1500lbs payload average. The lightest 5th wheels iv seen are snickered at 1300lbs hitch weight with 0 cargo. So you can say a 1300 hitch will realistically be 1500-1600lbs (cargo/bedhitch) Leaving you with no, or negative payload numbers. Even if your generous at 1800lbs payload, you'll be left with no wiggle room after human weight. There is a YouTuber I recommend to all my friends including you guys "big truck big rv" he explains exactly why 5th wheels are just not half ton capable, and very knowledgeable information on all type of towing.

Although I agree to an extent that guy is super cautious and wouldn't tow anything heavier than a ~5k TT with a 1500. I've seen some TT's that he recommends 3/4 or 1 tons but are definitely 1500 territory (at least from a manufacturer spec standpoint). Its easy to say since he drives a F450. However, he offers some great advice and everyone new or getting into RV's (or towing heavy) should watch his videos.

With that said and having a ME degree I agree weight limits should be followed but not to the 'T'. You aren't going to be unsafe or crash if you are a few percent over your rated GCWR or GVWR. What is more important is how you tow and towing experience, driver skill and reading the weather/terrain/traffic, and having the right equipment that is setup correctly. What the weight limits don't tell you is trailer size. An empty 30' box trailer that is 13' high that only weighs 4k lbs may be well within the mfg weight specs, but if setup incorrectly will be a death trap under high winds with a newbie driver. A slightly overweight 5th wheel is much 'safer' then an underweight TT being (pulled with a 1500) if the driver of the TT is green and has no experience, and vice-versa. Tiring ratings are important and proper tire pressure. Stay within your equipment limits (hitch, ball, tires, etc).

Know your equipment. Know your limits. Its not a race. Enjoy life!

 

[Neurobit]

Although I agree to an extent that guy is super cautious and wouldn't tow anything heavier than a ~5k TT with a 1500. I've seen some TT's that he recommends 3/4 or 1 tons but are definitely 1500 territory (at least from a manufacturer spec standpoint). Its easy to say since he drives a F450. However, he offers some great advice and everyone new or getting into RV's (or towing heavy) should watch his videos.

With that said and having a ME degree I agree weight limits should be followed but not to the 'T'. You aren't going to be unsafe or crash if you are a few percent over your rated GCWR or GVWR. What is more important is how you tow and towing experience, driver skill and reading the weather/terrain/traffic, and having the right equipment that is setup correctly. What the weight limits don't tell you is trailer size. An empty 30' box trailer that is 13' high that only weighs 4k lbs may be well within the mfg weight specs, but if setup incorrectly will be a death trap under high winds with a newbie driver. A slightly overweight 5th wheel is much 'safer' then an underweight TT being (pulled with a 1500) if the driver of the TT is green and has no experience, and vice-versa. Tiring ratings are important and proper tire pressure. Stay within your equipment limits (hitch, ball, tires, etc).

Know your equipment. Know your limits. Its not a race. Enjoy life!

Great advice.

 

[silver billet]

A slightly overweight 5th wheel is much 'safer' then an underweight TT being (pulled with a 1500) if the driver of the TT is green and has no experience, and vice-versa.

Why are you throwing up a straw-man? Both are unsafe.

 

[Neurobit]

Why are you throwing up a straw-man? Both are unsafe.

He didn't say they weren't unsafe. He said that it's "much safer"...

 

[silver billet]

He didn't say they weren't unsafe. He said that it's "much safer"...

Relative scale. You can't justify something is safe just because it's safer than another thing that is unsafe. They're both unsafe.

 

[Neurobit]

Relative scale. You can't justify something is safe just because it's safer than another thing that is unsafe. They're both unsafe.

Agree to disagree.

Cheers,

 

[VernDiesel]

NDanecker great post. I don't want to be repetative to things I posted earlier in this thread even though there always seem to be people who read the OP post and the last post and nothing in between. In the last 6 years and 660k miles towing TTs from Mfgrs to dealerships I've literally CAT scaled & setup dozens & donzens of TTs of various makes for long distance transport. In addition to our own family camping trips. I always stress using triple scales for setup to see what the eye and measurement cannot at least for heavier loads and lighter tow vehicles.

I've taken and helped others turn the preverbial white knuckle ride in to a safe stable within spec setup with only weight redistribution and no weight loss. Point I often try to make is the focus and value of scaled setup vs a focus on fear with weight guestimates and a payload sticker. Some get so focused on a letter of the law so to speak that they forget the spirit of the law for which it was written.

On another note. There are a two Mfgrs that I can think of that make a smaller 5er specifically to be towed by the average 1/2 ton truck not just "1/2 ton towable".

 

[NDanecker]

Why are you throwing up a straw-man? Both are unsafe.

5th wheels are generally safer in that they are more forgiving on the setup and with a newbie driver, and with the pivot pin over the rear axle are not as susceptible to outside forces (wind) as a bumper pull. That is physics and a fact. Not opinion. So yea.....a fully loaded 5th is safer when compared to a fully loaded TT. Period. Toss in a newbie driver and we'll see who gets to the campsite or not if both were put through harsh traffic, winds and heavy rain.

To send my point home - what is the ratio of videos you've seen where sway (passing truck or semi) makes the driver loose control between a TT and 5th wheels? Never seen one for a 5th but have seen dozen of TT and improperly loaded flat beds that end up in the ditch.

 

[intelligence209]

Although I agree to an extent that guy is super cautious and wouldn't tow anything heavier than a ~5k TT with a 1500. I've seen some TT's that he recommends 3/4 or 1 tons but are definitely 1500 territory (at least from a manufacturer spec standpoint). Its easy to say since he drives a F450. However, he offers some great advice and everyone new or getting into RV's (or towing heavy) should watch his videos.

With that said and having a ME degree I agree weight limits should be followed but not to the 'T'. You aren't going to be unsafe or crash if you are a few percent over your rated GCWR or GVWR. What is more important is how you tow and towing experience, driver skill and reading the weather/terrain/traffic, and having the right equipment that is setup correctly. What the weight limits don't tell you is trailer size. An empty 30' box trailer that is 13' high that only weighs 4k lbs may be well within the mfg weight specs, but if setup incorrectly will be a death trap under high winds with a newbie driver. A slightly overweight 5th wheel is much 'safer' then an underweight TT being (pulled with a 1500) if the driver of the TT is green and has no experience, and vice-versa. Tiring ratings are important and proper tire pressure. Stay within your equipment limits (hitch, ball, tires, etc).

Know your equipment. Know your limits. Its not a race. Enjoy life!

Yeah I agree with you on some of what he says considering he does drive an F450 lol. I have to tell myself to relax sometimes on numbers. Maybe from watching him too much. I personally never see any 1/2 tones carrying 5th wheels. I guess what I'm trying to say is id hate to see some people over buy. I did it myself the first time I bought a trailer, and I felt ripped off by the dealership. But from what I've read, an overweight 5th wheel can have more control then an at the limit TT.

 

[hdgmctruck04]

I never heard of them before but just checked out their website and that's a pretty cool product, you may have just made me spend more money lol. Are you currently using these?

EDIT: Nvmd I just saw that you have them listed in your signature. Do they ride on the bump stop plate when you are not towing or is there a gap?

I installed them with the 1" spacer included in the kit. They ride approx 1/8 - 1/4 inch off the plate. Overall its a Hair stiffer. I have had everyone say they don't even notice a difference. So mine engage almost instantly and start supporting the load. You can install them without the 1" spacer and will have 1 inch of stock suspension travel before they engage. I did't want any sag. I honestly tow my travel trailer without my "Equalizer brand weight distribution with built in sway control" hitch if it's not too windy out without any issue. I get a total of 1 1/4" squat in my truck with the loaded travel trailer hooked straight up. Before Sumo's, I had 5.5 inches of squat. It looked terrible. I have some install pictures if you want & some post install squat pictures if you want.

 

[Jeffjad]

I installed them with the 1" spacer included in the kit. They ride approx 1/8 - 1/4 inch off the plate. Overall its a Hair stiffer. I have had everyone say they don't even notice a difference. So mine engage almost instantly and start supporting the load. You can install them without the 1" spacer and will have 1 inch of stock suspension travel before they engage. I did't want any sag. I honestly tow my travel trailer without my "Equalizer brand weight distribution with built in sway control" hitch if it's not too windy out without any issue. I get a total of 1 1/4" squat in my truck with the loaded travel trailer hooked straight up. Before Sumo's, I had 5.5 inches of squat. It looked terrible. I have some install pictures if you want & some post install squat pictures if you want.

Thanks for all the info. I kept doing more research and discovered that timbren makes a similar product. I do not favor either brand but happened to find a set of timbrens for $180 on the etrailer site which were significantly cheaper than sumos so I went with those, I hope I don't regret my decision. I didn't know anything about this category of helper springs so thanks for posting. I'm excited to see how my tow experience will be now.

 

[silver billet]

5th wheels are generally safer in that they are more forgiving on the setup and with a newbie driver, and with the pivot pin over the rear axle are not as susceptible to outside forces (wind) as a bumper pull. That is physics and a fact. Not opinion. So yea.....a fully loaded 5th is safer when compared to a fully loaded TT. Period. Toss in a newbie driver and we'll see who gets to the campsite or not if both were put through harsh traffic, winds and heavy rain.

To send my point home - what is the ratio of videos you've seen where sway (passing truck or semi) makes the driver loose control between a TT and 5th wheels? Never seen one for a 5th but have seen dozen of TT and improperly loaded flat beds that end up in the ditch.

Nobody is arguing (except you) whether A is safer than B. What I'm saying is that an overloaded 5th wheel (that exceeds the manufacturers specs/capability of the truck) is unsafe. Full stop. Don't care whether your neighbour's kid is doing squats on the top of their trailer while cruising at 70 mph. That's not the argument.

 

[NDanecker]

Nobody is arguing (except you) whether A is safer than B. What I'm saying is that an overloaded 5th wheel (that exceeds the manufacturers specs/capability of the truck) is unsafe. Full stop. Don't care whether your neighbour's kid is doing squats on the top of their trailer while cruising at 70 mph. That's not the argument.

I'm not arguing. I am offering my opinion and I believe my point has been lost with you which is fine. I am not saying its not unsafe. Lots of things in life are considering unsafe. Driving over the posted speed limit is unsafe. Browsing the internet without a proper firewall is unsafe but many do it anyway. Its a reward/risk scenario. My point is some things are more unsafe then others and I was giving my opinion on what I consider worse than others. Its all relative. You may have a different opinion. You may want to spend the extra $x dollars on a larger truck. Fine. I respect that, but it appears you don't respect my opinion along with others, and want to cut hairs on the definition if something is unsafe or not, and prove some point. Whatever.....

Have a great day!

 

[silver billet]

I'm not arguing. I am offering my opinion and I believe my point has been lost with you which is fine. I am not saying its not unsafe. Lots of things in life are considering unsafe. Driving over the posted speed limit is unsafe. Browsing the internet without a proper firewall is unsafe but many do it anyway. Its a reward/risk scenario. My point is some things are more unsafe then others and I was giving my opinion on what I consider worse than others. Its all relative. You may have a different opinion. You may want to spend the extra $x dollars on a larger truck. Fine. I respect that, but it appears you don't respect my opinion along with others, and want to cut hairs on the definition if something is unsafe or not, and prove some point. Whatever.....

Have a great day!

The reason why I avoid "more unsafe than X" type arguments is because we're not talking about X and it is often cherry picked to give weight to the real argument the guy is trying to make. So you post "driving over the speed limit is unsafe". Again, cherry picked, technically it's true but you picked that example to try and bolster your argument.

Myself I would sooner compare it to "driving while under the influence". Your argument then is basically: "I, as an experienced drinker who regularly drives after having had some drinks, am safer than my kid who has never driven under the influence but is just starting to learn how". I mean, there might be some truth to it, the more you experience driving while intoxicated, the more you might learn to cope with it and work around it. But it's still a very bad idea.

See why I avoid this type of argument? You pick "driving over the speed limit" to show how banal and silly my worry is, and I pick "driving while intoxicated" to prove how worrisome and wrong your behaviour is.

In the end, we're not talking about speed limits or intoxication, we're talking about overloading a truck past the manufacturers ratings. It is never advisable, and should never be so carelessly approved and admitted on a public forum where other people get the wrong impression.

Edit: and as for the firewall example, I don't have a firewall installed. Never have. The only ports open on my computer are the ports that should be open (ssh/22 and https/443), the rest are closed. So a firewall doesn't help. But the problem there with this example is, if I as Mr. Numbnuts want to browse without an antivirus installed (which I also do), I might just get my computer taken out. Nobody else is affected by my "poor decision". If you as Mr carefree want to drive overweight and run into problems, other people's lives are at risk. That's why your example (firewall) is a poor choice to validate your opinion.