F-150 Lightning Epic tow test fail

[Brutal_HO]

There's no free energy.

 

[Ellisstrong]

I think there a lot of truck owners who rarely ever tow with their trucks and when they do they tow local. For folks like that these tow ranges will be just fine.

 

[Terrible_One]

I think there a lot of truck owners who rarely ever tow with their trucks and when they do they tow local. For folks like that these tow ranges will be just fine.

I don't think that's true for anyone with a camper/travel trailer. I rarely tow, but when I do, it's actually for a long haul to take my RV out to remote areas. There is no way I'm going to consider an EV for that any time soon. I would just end up pulling over and using my gas-powered generator to recharge my truck so it can get me to where I'm going, just like the Tesla being charged by a generator in the first couple pages of this thread. I'm not an EV hater, but it's definitely not yet a viable option for a few circumstances, such as towing long distance and, particularly, to remote areas where there will likely not be any chargers for years to come. Eventually, however, electric charging stations will mostly replace gas stations and at that point it will be tenable.

 

[HSKR R/T]

As a general statement, this is not true.

When talking about adding alternators to the wheels of an EV to recharge the batteries, it is very true, unless you are coasting downhill the entire time.

 

[Scram1500]

There's no free energy.

Everything is free, unless you're unfortunate enough to have a job

 

[theblet]

As a general statement, this is not true.

It takes energy to make electricity. The energy comes in make forms, and some forms produce more than others.

 

[SpeedyV]

I think there a lot of truck owners who rarely ever tow with their trucks and when they do they tow local. For folks like that these tow ranges will be just fine.

This is probably true for 80-90% of truck owners at least 80-90% of the time.

We drive between Texas (home) and Michigan (lake) a few times per year…sometimes towing. I couldn’t realistically use an EV there (without serious inconvenience). But for 350+ days per year, an EV would suit me fine.

So, if the equation would work to rent a tow vehicle when needed…

 

[runamuck]

I only use my laramie for towing our travel trailer and for when we take a long trip. the electric with 150 mile range would not work for me. since the range is cut in half when towing, I couldnt even make it to our closest favorite lake which is 95 miles. our typical trip without the trailer is from DFW to new mexico or colorado for skiing and I can make taos on one tank of gas and about 10 hrs. no way I would want to add a couple hrs sitting at chargers to that trip.. a non-starter for me.

 

[SpeedyV]

There's no free energy.

Well, solar and wind are examples of limitless energy sources that are free “to us”….we humans are still just pretty terrible about leveraging them.

But to your point, there is no perfect conversion of energy, let alone any net positive energy generation.

 

[runamuck]

Well, solar and wind are examples of limitless energy sources that are free “to us”….we humans are still just pretty terrible about leveraging them.

But to your point, there is no perfect conversion of energy, let alone any net positive energy generation.

I see you in fort worth..I'm in Hurst..

 

[theblet]

Well, solar and wind are examples of limitless energy sources that are free “to us”….we humans are still just pretty terrible about leveraging them.

But to your point, there is no perfect conversion of energy, let alone any net positive energy generation.

It just takes alot of fossil fuels to harness "free" energy. Also, EVs have 0 carbon footprint on paper because of the lack of tailpipe, but have 12 times the carbon penalty because of the manufacturing process. It takes many many years for the footprint to level out with ICE vehicles because of this. So in the end the carbon emissions are just "moved" to another location, even though the vehicle itself is 0 emission. Kind of a smoke and mirror thing.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Well, solar and wind are examples of limitless energy sources that are free “to us”….we humans are still just pretty terrible about leveraging them.

But to your point, there is no perfect conversion of energy, let alone any net positive energy generation.

Not really free as there is a cost for manufacturing the equipment needed to harness the power. And it's still not "free" energy in a sense of not needing energy to make energy.

You add an alternator to the drive wheels on an EV, and you may actually end up reducing your effective range.

 

[Darksteel165]

If your only metric for a truck being "good" for towing is it's range, then you are missing the piloint

What benefits for towing does an EV give for an equivalently priced gas or diesel truck

What metrics show that EVs are better, or can compete with regular trucks. Even a v6 Ram can tow.

A base model F150 lighting with the "pro trim" only adding Max Trailer Tow Package with the 240 mile range costs $51,369 MSRP
If you want the next level up trim XLT with the extended battery for 320 mile range and only adding the Max Trailer Tow Package again it's $84,269 MSRP

You can get a 1500 Tradesman with a 5.7 for $46,590 MSRP
1500 Bighorn with a 3.0 Diesel for $53,355
2500 Tradesman with a 6.4 HEMI is $51,760
2500 Tradesman with 6.7L Diesel is $61,355

I clearly am "missing the point" as there are so many pros and positive "metrics" about towing with an EV.
Save money, tow longer, the sky is the limit when towing with an EV!

 

[SpeedyV]

It just takes alot of fossil fuels to harness "free" energy. Also, EVs have 0 carbon footprint on paper because of the lack of tailpipe, but have 12 times the carbon penalty because of the manufacturing process. It takes many many years for the footprint to level out with ICE vehicles because of this. So in the end the carbon emissions are just "moved" to another location, even though the vehicle itself is 0 emission. Kind of a smoke and mirror thing.

There's a tradeoff, certainly, although it might take less time/miles than you think to "break even" on carbon footprint.

Personally, batteries are my biggest concern—both from production/manufacturing and recyclability standpoints. The advancement of battery technology is table stakes, or we'll just replace one nasty problem (fossil fuel harvesting/exhaustion, carbon contribution) with another one (heavy metal mining/exhaustion, industrial waste).

Others have commented about how EVs are charged (today) with electricity provided by plants largely running on fossil fuels. That is absolutely true, but to use this as an excuse not to go to EVs is shortsighted. With hundreds of millions of IC cars and trucks on the road, we're not transitioning to EVs overnight; it might take 30 years! It's also a pretty safe assumption that we will continue to invest in our energy grid (capacity, redundancy, and quality) and be producing power at least a little bit more cleanly decades from now. And it would be a GOOD thing to produce more energy under controlled conditions at power plants in order to remove hundreds of millions of emissions-producing IC engines from circulation—many of which are aging and not well maintained.

I'm a realist. As much as I am (very) interested in where things are headed, I'm also a fan of my V8 engines. I'll miss them when they're gone. And I'll continue to obsess about the best fluids, the best maintenance habits, etc. to preserve them as long as possible...even if I don't think they represent "the future".

 

[HSKR R/T]

What benefits for towing does an EV give for an equivalently priced gas or diesel truck

What metrics show that EVs are better, or can compete with regular trucks. Even a v6 Ram can tow.

A base model F150 lighting with the "pro trim" only adding Max Trailer Tow Package with the 240 mile range costs $51,369 MSRP
If you want the next level up trim XLT with the extended battery for 320 mile range and only adding the Max Trailer Tow Package again it's $84,269 MSRP

You can get a 1500 Tradesman with a 5.7 for $46,590 MSRP
1500 Bighorn with a 3.0 Diesel for $53,355
2500 Tradesman with a 6.4 HEMI is $51,760
2500 Tradesman with 6.7L Diesel is $61,355

I clearly am "missing the point" as there are so many pros and positive "metrics" about towing with an EV.
Save money, tow longer, the sky is the limit when towing with an EV!

There is a reason railroads use Diesel electric locomotives. With the diesel engine only supplying the power for the electric motors that actually move the train. I imagine the EV RAM range extender is going to be something similar with a ICE engine only there to charge batteries, not actually drive the wheels. Electric motors just do better when towing. More torque on tap, instantly. Less moving parts, so you aren't losing power through a transmission and differential(depending how the vehicle is set up).

Even the base model EVs have more features than any of the ICE vehicles you listed for price comparison.

Considering most truck owners anymore rarely, if ever, actually tow anything. And if they do, it's probably some small utility trailer. EVs are a valid option. Those who need to tow heavy loads and/or longer distances definitely aren't EV truck shopping.

And you still keep trying to compare two different trucks with different purposes.

But just to keep playing devil's advocate

Watch a Rivian R1T Go Swimming During a Wild Boat Launch and Retrieval

This couldn't end well, could it?

www.motortrend.com

 

[Darksteel165]

And you still keep trying to compare two different trucks with different purposes.

I'm just trying to stay on topic
The thread is titled F-150 Lightning Epic tow test fail under the towing section of the forms, so I am discussing towing options
Also you say they are for different purposes, but on Ford's own website that I linked they are pushing claiming the F-150 is good for towing. They didn't include that it's "good for towing light objects short distances"
$85k for a truck is a lot of money if you plan on towing with it and needing to charge every 100 miles. Price creep.

At the current price point this should only be compared to a TRX as a "toy" truck. I don't seem Ram claiming the TRX is great at towing but Ford is clamming the F150 is good at towing when, it's just not.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I'm just trying to stay on topic
The thread is titled F-150 Lightning Epic tow test fail under the towing section of the forms, so I am discussing towing options
Also you say they are for different purposes, but on Ford's own website that I linked they are pushing claiming the F-150 is good for towing. They didn't include that it's "good for towing light objects short distances"
$85k for a truck is a lot of money if you plan on towing with it and needing to charge every 100 miles. Price creep.

At the current price point this should only be compared to a TRX as a "toy" truck. I don't seem Ram claiming the TRX is great at towing but Ford is clamming the F150 is good at towing when, it's just not.

It's towing capacity is just as good, if not better than, "comparable" ICE trucks. The only limitation is range. Which anyone even considering it will understand the limitations.

What would really help with charging and range issues, is if all the EVs would just adopt a single standard plug in connection. No need to charging adapters if you can't find a brand specific charger.

From the people I know, most use their trucks to either tow RVs to campsites, or tow their race cars to the race track. Which, with where I live, most would never exceed the limited range the EV has to get to either location. Most of my fried s with RVs, tow them from storage to a local campsite. Some stay in same campsite all year long, other just hop from on local one to another. Most never go more than 50 miles. Get some charging stations at the RV parks and race tracks, and problem solved.

 

[@JC]

I just love the rationaliztions and yeah buts from the pro-EV crowd.

 

[SpeedyV]

I just love the rationaliztions and yeah buts from the pro-EV crowd.

Such as? Feels like the whole point of the thread was a "yeah but" from "traditionalists". Am I wrong?

 

[Darksteel165]

"traditionalists"

I lol'd
Calling the 99% "traditionalists"

Next thing people are going to start to talk about are crypto currency and NFTs and how they are the future on this thread.